RF Scott

Elizabeth would like that Devendra Banhart CD, please. I can collect it and that Caribou LP off you at the same time if it's easier?

hey Ross, that sounds good to me - drop me a Facebook message and we'll sort it out! Rx

Whether you shop there or not, it's looking to be a bad thing for music in general - in a lot of towns it's the only place left where you can buy music. Not to mention how bad Waterstones downsizing/closing will be for authors and the book world.

Hi there, the following are for sale! Offers considered. Can deliver or meet up in town, fairly flexible re: times.

The Vaselines 'The Way of the Vaselines - A Complete History' 4

The Futureheads 'News and Tributes' 4

Sonic Youth 'Screaming Fields of Sonic Love' 4

V/A - Rough Trade 'Indie Pop 1' (2 x CD) 5

Cat Power 'Moon Pix' 4

Frank Black & the Catholics 'Devil's Workshop' 3

Devendra Banhart 'Rejoicing in the Hands' (limited edition includes book) 5

The Nation of Ulysses '13-Point Program to Destroy America' 4

Be Your Own Pet 'Get Awkward' 3

Radiohead 'In Rainbows' 3 (Literally removed from shrinkwrap and then put on shelf so completely unplayed...).

Loads more to be added!

Lock in financial agreement for the show, before the show. Although it's shit, you don't really have a leg to stand on if you've not discussed it properly, or at all, and end up not getting paid anything.

Also, don't sell yourself short. See too many bands acting like lapdogs with promoters. Remember you're doing them a favour too.

Quite possibly, as they are closing down 60 stores, and a bunch of Waterstones too.

BBC News - HMV to close 60 stores as sales and shares slump

Will be sad to see either of them go, I used to shop in both of them reguarly, but they just can't compete with the likes of Amazon, Play.com etc when it comes to prices. Although I prefer shopping in the High Street, I buy almost all my music, films, games and books online now.

I'd be very surprised if they kept both Waterstones on Union Street.

How come everyone is hating on this band name? I don't mind it, and could name about twenty local bands that have far worse names.

God its so quiet on the football front you'd think we're having a winter break!

Rafa Benetiz has been fired by Inter Milan just after winning that most useless of trophies The Club World Championship!

Rafael Bentez sacked by Inter as unhappy Italian job comes to an end | Football | guardian.co.uk

That's exactly what he wanted to happen, really, given his comments after the game.

Yes. And this specific person is also someone you know very well.

They told me that I "sucked" after having deleted them. I hadn't interacted with this person via Facebook or in reality in approximately two years.

Ooh text me the details. Gossip gossip gossip.

Fucking Amazon MP3 download, useless piece of shit. "We strongly recommend that you install the Amazon MP3 downloader before you download this file. If you'd prefer not to, you can just click "skip this step" and download the MP3 from your browser window". Except that the "Skip this step" link isn't there, and there's no way to get past the "install Amazon downloader" window without installing Amazon downloader. Which I don't want. Now it has eaten my money and I can't listen to the tunes.

Have you contacted Amazon about it?

I use Amazon MP3 download a fait bit, and I've definitely been impressed with the quality, pricing and even the downloader! Syncing the songs to your iTunes library is a nice touch (I know that it's not just Amazon that does this).

I was a bit miffed that I stayed up to watch the re-run of Top of the Pops years ago only to find that Weezer basically just sang over an instrumental version of Hash Pipe. I was also merked that I had a ticket for the gig they cancelled specifically to do Top of the Pops. Luckily, Weezer split up straight after Maladroit was released and never came back, right?

My favourite Top of the Pops moment was when Papa Roach 'trashed' their "equipment" at the end of a performance. One tap of the DUMMY Guitar cabinet and it went flying into the air like that stupid carrier bag in 'American Beauty'.

RF Scott - we appear to be going round in circles...

My main point is that there are stupid people in this country. I don't give a shit if that sounds snobby/elitist or not.

X Factor taps into the stupidity of these people - I never once said that all people who watch X Factor are stupid, far from it.

Despite the sweariness of some of my posts, I wasn't getting aggressive about it - that would be pretty hypocritical of me - I'm not getting worked up about this at all, I just find it funny how staunchly you're defending the whole thing, given some of the comments I've read from you over the past couple of years (not since you first started posted, just the last couple of years). I could troll the comments, but I'm not going to.

And, yes - people are entirely free to question the merits of my arguments/opinions, but I'm not going to change my mind that there are a lot of stupid people in this country. And I don't mean they are stupid because they watch X Factor or having a particular taste in music makes you stupid. They are just stupid. Full stop.

To be fair, it was you that resurrected the thing about stupidity. There are obviously stupid people in this country (otherwise there wouldn't be smart people...), I'm just of the opinion that linking that in with something like the X Factor is at best presumptious. Not too keen on the personal angle that's come about on this, but I would say that 'flippancy' should be considered when reading a lot of posts on messageboards as a whole, not just my posts. Another thing to consider...people's opinions change! 8o Anyway, Merry Xmas.

Then we're back to that argument about the elitists thinking x-factor fans have gash taste in music...

I admit I'm being a bit cynical and my opinion could be better worded. How's this:

I think that the x-factor is a fantastic piece of entertainment, but the music it spawns to me is tantamount to the smurfs albums. It's novelty cover versions which should be a bit of fun and nothing more. Buy it if you wish, they are your hard earned pennies and consequently your fucking business...

I don't want to start the whole 'music is art, art should be respected' debate... That said, I do find it saddening that while cd sales are declining due to piracy, the amount of money the x-factor takes in is going nowhere but up... Targetting kids who are too young to use torrents has it's advantages I suppose!

xx

It'd actually be interesting to see how piracy would affect The X Factor - it's kinda bulletproof from leaking considering that the release is announced on the Sunday and in shops that same week!

He was never delayed in starting - took up the position last Monday and was going to be in charge for the Motherwell game regardless of 'Well's ridiculous request to postpone the appointment.

Ah, amazing - seemed farcical! Haven't been paying attention to things this past fortnight.

Could someone fill me in on the Craig Brown situation? The last I read he was going to be starting after the Motherwell game, but that's now been postponed... So I guess either he started anyway or there's a delay?

o_O

What if you like the song?

Hahaha, ridiculously good point! Can't believe I missed that.

Would you say getting a tattoo of Wagner on your arse is "stupid"?

How about getting a tattoo with your favourite footy team's badge on your arse (or anywhere on your body)?

Stupid?

Wherever you draw the line, you are still drawing the line and branding some people "stupid" (that is if you think it's stupid to get the tattoo done!).

I wouldn't - and didn't, so no idea where this quasi-argument has arisen from - say it's 'stupid'. I used it as a flippant example (c'mon! A tattoo of Wagner on YOUR ARSE is hardly a serious point, y'know?) to illustrate what some might see as getting unhealthily obsessed with a particular thing (not being stupid, again). I could have as easily said 'doing a Mark Chapman on Wager is maybe participating a little too far'.

(also there's a HUGE difference between 'stupid people' and 'doing something stupid').

I'm finding your defence of X Factor and your slating of "elitism" pretty hilarious to be honest dude. I'm sure if I trolled back through this site I would find far more "elitist" comments made by you than by me.

Considering I've been using this website since I was a teenager, I don't doubt that. However, I'd like to think that I'm 100% 'over' thinking that something entirely subjective can actually be 'better' or 'more important'.

Perhaps I am being a bit snobby about X Factor, but I can do that if I fucking want to. I think X Factor is pretty shit, but it's quite funny at the same time. It's one big fucking soap opera.

There's no need to get aggressive, really - you're obviously 'allowed' to be snobby about whatever, but others are also allowed to question that, y'know? And yes! It is a soap opera, that's part of why I enjoy it so much.

Yes, I think people getting worked up watching sport are idiots too - that includes me. I get worked up watching football all the time, but it's pretty stupid to do so when you really think about it.

I don't know about that, it's kind of important to have something to vent at. Rather that than going postal at work.

I'm not saying it makes any of these people bad people, it's just MY OPINION. They probably think I'm stupid for wasting time, money and effort having ever put on a gig with bands that nobody's ever heard of, which is frustrating, but it's their opinion and they are entitled to it.

Again, nobody said you weren't entitled to an opinion. To 'their' credit, I often find that people who don't really know a lot about 'alternative' music scenes are generally really interested in how things work, etc - much more so than the other way round!

Can't be bothered with all the quoting and unquoting boxes / message too short as result.

I think they are morons for getting worked up enough about it to waste their time and money on a meaningless activity like voting.. Same idea as people who seem to live and die over who goes out on the apprentice (I don't watch that one, but it seems to be the same idea).

Watch the drama, laugh at the suffering of others, make fun of them all for crying all.the.fucking.time. even enjoy some of the songs when they pick a classic and do it some justice, then turn the tv off and get on with your fucking life.

The x-factor will get all the financial support it needs through advertising - just like any other show - the vote money just flies straight into someone's 'coke and whores' fund.

xx

I dunno, it just seems a little weird to me that there's a line drawn between participation in a TV programme, one side being 'fine', the other 'moronic'. I mean, sure, getting a tattoo of Wagner on your buttocks is probably participating a little too far, but you get my drift!

I think they just resent the drop in numbers on their 'friend' collection

xx

I honestly can't think of a time where I've been able to remember the number of contacts I have on Facebook to the point where I'd notice if someone had 'deleted' me! Ah well, I guess I can see why some people with self-esteem issues might get paranoid about it.

I've been making some Facebook culls over the past few months, and I've been getting some shit from people I have deleted from my friend list. Usually, I have deleted them because I never ever interact with them or see them, or in some cases, never even met them. So they go. But I've also been deleting people who just consistently post nonsense - these are the people who offer the most shit when they discover the befriending.

Fuck the "hide" function. Take no prisoners. Delete the fuckers.

People actually get in touch if you delete them from Facebook?! That's hilarious/depressing. What sort of reasoning do they offer?

Oh, and slightly more relevant to the actual thread - angry about the X Factor using a Biffy Clyro song? C'mon, they're not Crass, and they never were.

I watch it from time to time - it's funny and it's entertaining - but I do think you're a fucking moron if you've spent as much as a penny either voting or buying an x-factor single.

xx

So you think people are morons if they financially support a programme/ventue which you admit to finding funny AND entertaining?

Not really what I meant.

The people who pick up the phone and vote 1000 times (in my opinion) are a bit stupid though.

I sometimes watch X Factor, but take it for what it is - an entertainment show.

I maintain that people who watch X Factor religiously and get totally worked up about it, post about it all the time on Facebook (saying things like "it's a fix, can't believe they changed the rules" etc etc) are pretty stupid.

That's ridiculously snobby - does the same go for people who watch sport religiously, get totally worked up about it, post about it all the time on Facebook, etc? At the end of the day, it's entertainment, like you say - people enjoy getting into things and talking about it on Facebook, for example (it's hardly like they're tabling a motion in the House of Commons now, is it? I'm also not sure why watching a show religiously and watching a show occasionally/semi-regularly constitutes a difference between being pretty stupid and not. I watched this year's X Factor weekly, and spoke about it, and was interested about rule changes. I'm definitely not 'pretty stupid'.

That's what I was getting at. At the very least, X Factor is manipulated to fuck to get the most sellable "popstars" to the final, and manipulated some more to get the most sellable one to win etc etc. At the worst, it's fucking rigged and has been for ages. People who can't work that out and are getting all upset because that Irish wifey didn't get through the semi-final are stupid if you ask me.

It is what it is, again like you say, it's entertainment - the vast majority of the entertainment industry, whether it's the X Factor or a new Lars Von Trier film, manipulates the audience in order to make a profit, to varying degrees.

But - it doesn't make any difference to my life, so let them get on with it.

EDIT; and I agree with the music point as well. It's a completely different market, and don't think it is "ruining the music industry" or any such like. Without X Factor, the kind of people who buy X Factor singles wouldn't be out there buying even the likes of Biffy Clyro albums, let alone Fugazi albums - they'd still be buying up whatever is the latest pop fad because that's the kind of music they are into. Without X Factor there would still be bands like Westlife, Sugababes, Take That, Spice Girls, Bieber etc etc. - if anything, it's acts like this that suffer from X Factor's existence, because fans of the likes of Biffy or Fugazi aren't going to suddently start spending their money on X Factor singles!

Nah, I know people who have bought Fugazi albums and releases by X Factor contestants, or similar. I'm also not sure that X Factor really does harm the kind of acts you mention - the vast majority of people who only buy this sort of music will buy comparatively few albums a year, so one more from the X Factor isn't going to bring about a 'should I buy ______ or ______ ?', which is more of a problem for someone who buys from a wider array of 'genres'.

Basically, each to their own as stated above, but calling someone stupid for getting into a show like the X Factor is just terrible elitism.

AIG no longer exist pal. So no worries there.

Gooooooooooaaaaaaalllllllazzzzzzzzzziiiiiiioooooo

Yes, i'm neither an idiot or have a poor taste in music. I like to be entertained.

Exactly, it's fun! If you can't separate things Cher Lloyd and Fugazi, for example, simply because they're both music-related, you're a lot more narrow minded than those you're accusing.