lepeep

if you've got digital tv, you can tune into the decent radio stations through that. I tuned into BBC six fm last night, to be greeted with Death (Human)... excellent! (thanks brucie) - dickenson, not forsythe.

nuclear holocaust thanks to threads I had a recurring nightmare of tightrope walking on lava aids was also a worry in the 80's...like a 10 year old is going to cop aids by eating someone elses crisps! I think I turned out ok tho!

yeah, I'll be headding to the show tonight if all goes well... I'll be the dude walking slowly, stopping his 2 year old from pulling things apart! see you there!

he could have subtly been "ribbing" the tubine hall work of Whiteread? Tate Modern| Past Exhibitions | The Unilever Series: Rachel Whiteread: EMBANKMENT: This was limited (for me) - it seemed obvious...there is a joy in repetition, the ability to create something large from many small components...but I think her approach was pretty vacuous here...(no pun intended...well....ok, a wee bit). and you are absolutly right, "memorable experience" is probably the biggest compliment you could give an artist. The search for "profundity" in every experience is also quite obsurd, is it not? what is wrong with questioning the "everyday", surely it's more important to look and question what we take for granted, rather than illustrating the "grand" ? I'll also add that be it empty boxes or piles of hair - it must also be read as metaphor surely? - again, relying on the viewer to input their own imagination and "play" to get more meaning from the "component parts" ?

and that's a valid response! I was often frowned upon during my MA for trying to use "humour" when talking about work (or even making it)...after the course, I'd realised that it was the limitation of certain tutors that were the problem, not my inarticulate reasons (and that was ultimately the problem) art is there to reflect life - and ALL emotions should be called upon. that's also not needlessly to say that there is no "poetry" in a flattened box (?) - again, it's up to the "reader" as to how far they take a given situation into their own realms of the imagination? - but "the mundane" is always going to cause extreme reactions (paradoxically!) I remember one lecture, where one artist poured milk from one glass into the other and stated that he was "transforming milk into milk" - I was enraged, what a load of shite, I'd thought...meanwhile, another MA student erupted into laughter, as he enjoyed the "poetry" of the action, he could always see the poetry in many things I could only see as the physical, tangible situation presented. I learned a lot from someone elses reaction, without feeling lesser, or "wrong" - if anything, the envy of simple enjoyment of an action. Watching my daughter explore the world is also a wake up call to my sensibilities - the sheer joy of watching, playing, manipulating every day objects and who knows what's going on in her head - I know she's learning, but the thoughts that must be being formed (I imagine) are amazing. It's the constraint of "proper" and "rules" that we can only judge our experiences - the child like ability to find wonder in the simplest thing or situation is nothing to be scoffed at - it only sets to state our ability to conform that we would do so (?) again, elements of embarrassment and conformity are questioned, when we are expected to find something of interest in the "mundane".... I too would have been laughing, by the way

dave, listen...they are all the same in short sleeves. he he

some of his landscapes are lovely!.... failed? perhaps he was more of a failure in world domination? (he had a good shot at it, but we stopped him, beautie!)

is that the south american, Guillermo Vargas story you are referring to? the dog was fed and released don't believe the hype. (the work was actually highlighting that a man in the village (a down and out) was starved to death, and was then eaten by the local abandoned dogs. - a bit more shocking that the "reality" of having a skinny dog tied to a gallery wall for a day (being fed and watered when the show was not open). and it "escaped".... again, the "power of art" - and also a trip into "context" - people worry more about one dog, as it has a spotlight of being stated as "a work of art" - failing to see the relevance, reason or intention behind the work - the inability to read around the work? "what is the artist trying to say", "what is the artist reacting to?" nope - "he's just trying to shock us" - "he's a fraud" - "what a cunt" (ho ho) a bit of research and a bit of un-bias reading can do wonders for the truth (or is it?........) never trust wiki, but here you have the entry! Guillermo Vargas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia what I found interesting about that "show" were that the attendees held the art work in more reverence than the dog's life (if they indeed were the people disgusted by the set up). The fact that one of the walls had dog biscuits that formed statements, could easily have been "defaced", in order to feed the dog is surely a statement about the viewers, not the gallery / artist ? complex, and difficult stuff - but again, that's the breeding ground for "good art" - not all art should be pretty - or "nice" - and were taught in school that art is painting, or sculpture - it's hard wired from an early age that "traditional art" is the only art...not really the case now. Just like teaching kids that electrons "orbit the nuclei" - when science now disagrees that an electron is indeed a "particle" conceptual art has only been "on the go" since the 20's (if that) - so it's got a long way to go to fight its case vs thousands of years of "traditional" (craft based) art...

that's the spirit. becuase making art is easy, eh....all you have to do is put 2 things together and say it's art. I get the feeling that you completely agree with the Sun's "turnip prize". It's people who have no imagination that think they are having the wool pulled over their eyes, and start to think that a bannana wrapped in foil "is the metaphor for technology destroying rural african customs"* - wanting to be told that art is there to "take this piss" - it's paranoid, it's moronic and proves that not everyone has the ability to think for themselves. again, it all boils down to intention. Artists do not take the piss - they are just sometimes hard to understand (to someone who is not so artistically inclined) - you'll find that the majority of people in the world want to be given answers - as they can't think for themselves. Who do you want to be? read Sol's list again.

I wasn't saying that you weren't saying that it wasn't by him? (ho ho....this could go wrong sometime soon...)

the classic response, if you don't mind me pointing that out. "if it looks difficult to make, then it must be art" ? remember, ideas are more important than execution... the simple fact that you a - didn't think to make that work b - assume that the "end product" is the most important aspect of the work shows why this is a work of art - and not something "pretending" to be a work of art. intention is the key word when thinking about why a work exists. if you think that a simple pile of bricks "could be done by anyone", then you are looking at a pile of bricks, not the reason, concept and intention of putting those bricks in that specific context. this is where conceptual art looses a lot of people, as it apprears to be a waste of time, or "pretentious"... Ask yourself this, if it doesn't make sense (to you) - and your reaction is to discount it (or need proof that it is what it says it is (art) - apply that thought process to sub atomic particle physics ? do you need to be told that it is science, even though you don't have the faintest idea about it's origins, or thinking? I was laughed at by an old fart that thought "art was painting" for relating "conceptual art" to "scientific research". if an artist uses any method / medium to explore / perceive the world - communicating something that is more than words, then you have to accept that the artist is not being disengenious, but that you have to trust that person to be honest and is only using what limited abilities we (as humans) have - to highlight points of interest within our world... again, the simple answer(s) are : good art should make you think it's your responsibility to react to work (be it good or bad) - as these reaction lead you (the viewer) to strengthen your position and understanding in the world. one should always approach "art" with an open mind - it's up to you to think outside the box - what could this mean? what is the artist trying to say? - instead of the oh so easy "that looks shite - I don't get it". It's partly bravery, for anyone to express an opinion that is from themself. Be it artist or viewer. It's also the understanding that there is "no right, no wrong" when it comes to reading work. this sentiment often leads to the "worry" of someone thinking that they don't fully know what the artist is trying to say.... so much more issues surround "the reading of work" - but that might just be a few seeds for starters ? (the exploration of "context" being the driving force for most conceptual art) I still approach reading work with a "logical" head on now and again - it's the designer in me.

like a good joke, if you need to be explained why it is what it is, you miss the point. I'm not trying to be arsey, or oversimplistic here, but, any art (even if you don't think it is) should be taken "seriously"... the object of the "game" is for you to make up your own answers, or questions. If it was obvious or limited in its reading....it wouldn't be in the gallery. If you think art should only be painting or sculpture, that's fine - but don't dismiss the other forms that many people do enjoy (?) if you don't like Curry, would you want it to be "declassified" as being food? again, perhaps an over simplification, but the best answer I can give here. perhaps read the list that Sol Lewitt wrote and see how many points you dissagree with - remembering that "art should not be logical" Sentences on Conceptual Art

it is a coley...why can't it be? it might be the model he made for the "final work"?

I've never used the thread rating, so I'd probably start using it... but, as we all agree, pretty pointless anyway. sorry for starting a pointless thread, I'll get back to posting something about a fart, or a funny kitten with a hat.

I'd see it as a tally of "positive / negative" (no scores or sliding scales). it's obviously subjective too - one person could think that a damning, harsh crit, is "positive"... then, you'd see a wee smiley / sad face (!) at the side of the thread. I just wanted to see if the place would flood with sad faces! - I've just been reading so many "first replies" to threads that are put downs, one liners "that's crap" etc... as I'd said, pointless but might be interesting....if you are sad....like me....

and how well were slayer known then? (not such the fanbase as now, I'd imagine!)

channel 4, so it'll be on 4OD, no doubt. I've just finished reading the "tricks of the mind" book (by...*cough cough* Derren Brown)... bar the smug (and I think rather funny) stuff about hypnosis, memory etc, the last chapter is about Logic & perception...(he references Bertrand Russell, quite a lot)... It's a fantastic look at how superstition, "patern" and "the need for answers" dictates how people perceive the world - giving rise to a need for "other worldly answers". The section about winning the lottery is particularly interesting, how when people think that winning is so remote a chance, that "special reasons" (stars, destiny etc) come in to how / why they won - but there is none (obviously) other than blind chance. We expect someone to win the lottery (more often than not) each week, it's just it is so extra-ordinary to the person winning, that "reasons" comes in to play... I'd reccomend just reading the last chapter, if you think he's a smug tosser - it's a great read.

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere....but I clocked this on myspace... METAL HAMMER MAGAZINE AND THE UNHOLY ALLIANCE TOUR PRESENT: WIN 15 MINUTES OF PAIN! METAL HAMMER MAGAZINE AND THE UNHOLY ALLIANCE TOUR PRESENT Win 15 Minutes Of Pain FAME Metal Hammer is giving you the chance to be a part of the most brutal metal tour of the year! That's right, The Unholy Alliance tour wants YOU! Together with MySpace and Scuzz TV, Metal Hammer is giving you a once in a lifetime chance to open up for Slayer, Trivium, Mastodon and Amon Amarth on the Unholy Alliance Tour Chapter III. If you think you have what it takes to shred with the big boys, and are aged 18 and over, then send your demo, with a daytime telephone number, either by email to unholy@futurenet.com with the subject header '15 Minutes Of Pain'. Or post to: 15 Minutes Of Pain Metal Hammer 2 Balcombe Street London NW1 6NW To be received no later than Monday September 15th 2008. Your demo will be reviewed by a panel of expert judges from Metal Hammer, Radio One Rock Show and Scuzz TV. Each winner will open up the tour with a 15 minute set and get to meet all the bands! Six bands will be chosen, each of which will play a 15 minute opening set during the tour at one of the six venues and get to meet all the bands! A date and venue will be allocated to each band and if any band is unable to play on the date specified, another band may be chosen to play instead. Here's your chance to be famous! The Metal Hammer-sponsored Unholy Alliance Chapter III tour runs as follows: Manchester Arena October 27th Birmingham NEC October 28th London Hammersmith Apollo October 30th London Hammersmith Apollo 31 Cardiff CIA November 2nd Glasgow SECC Hall 3 November 3

I know I shouldn't......but I couldn't resist. a degree from 1982 gave you the understanding of how to write a javaScript? jeez, that was a good course in "predicting the future".... "now students, how to write a javaScript - you won't need this for another 20 or so years, but, please believe me when I tell you that this will be important one day..........not content with programming a BBC, or Acorn, we wade straight into an imagined, conceptual language not yet invented" ho ho.

what I find ironic about that whole episode, is that "the defendant" obviously rallied the troops on here to phone in - a "rent-a-jury" if you will.... anyway...always fun to see what's gone before, in a new light.

Would there be a chance of putting a button that counts "positive / negative" responses (nothing to do with rep points)... and have the overall "vibe" of the thread shown in the main menu? stupid, and pointless....but It'd be interestign to see how we "generally" reply to threads... It might disprove that we're all a bit negative and miserable, and would rather post something negative and damning instead of have something good to say.........or not..... ho ho. blah.

Hey Guys, I'd been sent this email (below), thought it might be of interest to the "young 'uns" on here? If you want Laura's email address, PM me. Peep ------------- ...We are producing a new series of SOUND with Annie Mac & Nick Grimshaw for the BBC. We are looking for young people between the ages of 16-19 to be our Guestlist studio audience. This time around the audience is the focus of the show, we are looking for groups of young people to be our exclusive studio audience. The audience will get to watch a live and exclusive performance from that weeks band, meet and interview our celeb guests. And loads of other features for the audience to get involved with. We are looking for groups of people that all have a common interest. We are filming one show a week in London from now until next March so this is an ongoing search. Many thanks, Laura Clark Researcher for BBC 2 Monkey Kingdom

is that a jizz rag next to him?! I did like Dawkins reading out the emails from "christians"...I think that these people have forgotton what "christian" means... and, a bone of contention I have with the word "christian" in that context - can you not be good, kind, compassionate, caring, loving, selfless....if you are a muslim? seems like us white folks have the corner on "being good" (read Christian)... as for Saf-one, I know he meant "things you can't see still exist (with PROOF)" but, he didn't explain that really plainly enough, any christian could have jumped on the point and said "well, you can't see god, but he exists" (yes....where is that proof? "the bible"..."that's not proof" "yes it is" "no it's not" "yes it is"....etc it's all shite till we get a "dead-o-scope" and find out what happens (I KNOW we compost and feed worms - which makes me think straight away, *"ace, no concequences, I'll go a nd rape some gilrs and start killing people, 'cos I ain't going to be judged by a God!...whoo hooo".... * yes, of course it does.

Bill Hicks really is funny...

thanks for clarifying that...a good point indeed then! and, after watching the (terrible) Dawkins' program on Darwin last night, I can see where that point does come into effect.... the Science teachers in a religious school who pussy foot around the religion... Dawkins was awful, I think he's had one too many death threats - or their editor has. that fucking cooky Australian creationist that kept spouting "you can't see evolution" (and dawking mumbling something, but happily addressing it in his voice over - once he'd thought about it)... Is it just me, or is MRSA a prime example of evolution happening under our noses? "Superbugs" evolving to become resistant to drugs ? is that not case and evidence that organic systems evolve? As for the piss poor "conversation" with Arch Bishop Carey.... all the "relpies" were in a voice over...no real debate / discussion - just "set up and take the piss"... also, his answers/reasons to "Not believing in god" were pretty much verbatim to "why you should believe in science" (bar the relentless "science is fact based" - quite right, but there must be a more convincing way of putting it, other than resorting to calling "them" rediculous, stupid, blinkered, narrowminded etc.) the most obvious being the "just because you can't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist" (what, like "a god" richey ?) - plenty of people BELIEVE they have experienced "Him" (they, it, her ?) blah"...so much to go on about, what a dissapointing program, from someone I thought was pretty fired up and valid (a few years ago)...I am plumping for death threats...for sure.