Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 hahaha. I love this website.Profane Existence is indeed cool. I've been posting on the revamped message board for a couple of months now. While the PE folks are extremely political, there's a lotta fun topics on the board. I used to also write for the mag. And distributed it over several years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 I don't see a problem with them exploiting the scene or whatever...it doesn't involve you directly...This sort of thing happens all the time... Just part of the music community I guess...As an active participant in the punk community for many years it does indeed affect me. It has a damaging effect on the whole community. In the hands of such corporate interests punk becomes but worthless product - a thing devoid of any meaning. Punk belongs to the punks not the businessmen. This is our scene, so let's keep it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Dear god. Guess you missed the largely humourous intent of the link. Sure an important issue was touched upon' date=' but jesus, it was just a bit of fun.[/quote']yes your right the fact i laughed at the start of my reply ment i was taking this so serioulsy.But i can see this going into a huge thread about what is punk and how shit is emo. (just for a change) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripey Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplefrodo Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 anyone ever seen that programme 'grumpy old men'?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Destroy pop punk. Fuck those (like Vans) who seek to profit from' date=' and exploit, the punk community.[/quote']I hardly think these kids are being exploited....The kids in the sweat shop who make them are being exploited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 I hardly think these kids are being exploited....The kids in the sweat shop who make them are being exploited Indeed - a fact raised by some critical of the Warped tour.My point however was Vans use of punk so as to sell shoes, and so have sought to exploit punk's popularity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Mac Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Vans were successfully selling shoes LONG before punk reared it's ugly head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Vans were successfully selling shoes LONG before punk reared it's ugly head.I'm quite sure they were, but that does not get away from the fact thay have sought to exploit punk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Mac Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 So why do bands play on their tour?Although you've already said all the bands on the tour are shite and not punk, so it's surely not exploiting punk? The underground scene is still entact.So any company associate with punk who sell products, are they exploiting punk too? I just want to know what qualifies as exploiting. Is it the fact they are making lots of money? which they'd make without punk music. Vans have always been a massive company, who just happen to have an association with punk music (certainly in the states anyway).Isn't the States all about the big buck anyway? Commercialism? Sadly these things happen mate and there is nothing you can do about it. Exploitation happens to a far worse degree than the punk community being tarnished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Amy* Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 I've never seen such an argument over shoes before, decent!What's the deal anyway? It all comes down to being a business. Sadly there are a lot of greedy people in this world, and if "exploiting the punk scene" is what it takes to sell a pair of shoes and a t-shirt then so be it. People are so easily annoyed these days. Just ignore it. I would.At the end of the day, it's up to the induviduals if they're going to buy their products (like Johnny Mac... easily influenced by Vans I see ).For the record, I don't have any Vans clothing, but Santa might bring me a pair of slip-on things, hurrah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Mac Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Haha, I've worn Vans since i was in high school cos i'm so hardcore and underground. Shit, i'm old now, haha.My point was Vans don't need punk music to sell t-shirts and shoes, they been doing it successfully for many years before the vans warped tour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Amy* Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 That's right, you are old now! Keep it old skool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 So why do bands play on their tour?Although you've already said all the bands on the tour are shite and not punk' date=' so it's surely not exploiting punk? The underground scene is still entact.So any company associate with punk who sell products, are they exploiting punk too? I just want to know what qualifies as exploiting. Is it the fact they are making lots of money? which they'd make without punk music. Vans have always been a massive company, who just happen to have an association with punk music (certainly in the states anyway).Isn't the States all about the big buck anyway? Commercialism? Sadly these things happen mate and there is nothing you can do about it. Exploitation happens to a far worse degree than the punk community being tarnished.[/quote']Didn't say the bands who play the Warped tour weren't punk. Some outfits (such as Anti-Flag) who do choose to play... well, I'm kinda disappointed that they do.Sure, the underground is still intact, but we should still seek to challenge those who seek to profit from our efforts.Vans as I've said have no genuine interest in the punk community. They sponsor this tour so as to promote their brand. Nothing more. And no, it has nothing to do with how much they make. My point is pretty clear I think.Sadly these things happen? Sure, but there is a great deal we can do about it. Take the anti-sweatshop campaign for instance, which as sought to highlight the practices of Nike, Gap etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 I've never seen such an argument over shoes before' date=' decent!What's the deal anyway? It all comes down to being a business. Sadly there are a lot of greedy people in this world, and if "exploiting the punk scene" is what it takes to sell a pair of shoes and a t-shirt then so be it. People are so easily annoyed these days. Just ignore it. I would.At the end of the day, it's up to the induviduals if they're going to buy their products (like Johnny Mac... easily influenced by Vans I see ).[/quote']Just ignore it? You believe exploitation should not be met with resistance?People are so easily annoyed? So, the fact that some seek to exploit the punk community - to fuck it over, ain't no big deal? And what of those young children who produce these shoes - those who work long hours for little pay? Does this mean nothing to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Amy* Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Of course it means something to me, buy why get such a hairy canary over Vans? How many companies around the world are offenders too?I was meaning ignore the fact that they exploit punk, not children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Mac Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 because he's punx 4 lyfe.EDIT: As his edited message above states. As he's into the underground punk scene and doesn't want punk exploited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Of course it means something to me' date=' buy why get such a hairy canary over Vans? How many companies around the world are offenders too?[/quote']Indeed, but on this occasion we're talkin bout Vans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Amy* Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Indeed' date=' but on this occasion we're talkin bout Vans.[/quote']Fucksake, you editing you posts, you're confusing me!Good for you that you like to fight this kind of stuff. I'm not very good at arguing, what I was getting at was the fact that I would find it relatively easy to ignore the facts surrounding Vans. That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Amy* Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 ... but not the kiddie part. OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Indeed - a fact raised by some critical of the Warped tour.My point however was Vans use of punk so as to sell shoes' date=' and so have sought to exploit punk's popularity.[/quote']Yes and my point was the over use of the word exploited, the English language has no where else to go.If an American ever experiences anything that is TRULY AWESOME how will they describe it?I dont believe that some kid who goes out and buys a pair of vans of their own free will with their hard earned cash is being exploited, they may be following a fashion trend but exploited......noSome kid working 18hrs a day for 50p to feed his mother and six brothers and sisters on the other hand...Lets not de-value the language for our sensational needs, the press are the worst culprits. Gay used to be a great descriptive word....now lost to us all for fear of being non pc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Fucksake' date=' you editing you posts, you're confusing me!Good for you that you like to fight this kind of stuff. I'm not very good at arguing, what I was getting at was the fact that [i']I would find it relatively easy to ignore the facts surrounding Vans. That's all.Apologies in editing my post. Often post, then think I'd like to add something else. Sorry. Did add the piece I removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Yes and my point was the over use of the word exploited' date=' the English language has no where else to go.If an American ever experiences anything that is [b']TRULY AWESOME how will they describe it?I dont believe that some kid who goes out and buys a pair of vans of their own free will with their hard earned cash is being exploited, they may be following a fashion trend but exploited......noSome kid working 18hrs a day for 50p to feed his mother and six brothers and sisters on the other hand...Lets not de-value the language for our sensational needs, the press are the worst culprits. Gay used to be a great descriptive word....now lost to us all for fear of being non pc... You've misunderstood me. Sure, the kid picking up a pair of Vans sneakers ain't being exploited. My point was Vans seeking to exploit the punk community - the movement itself. They have no interest in punk, in those acts who appear on the tour. They couldn't give a damn. They only wanna sell shoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Mac Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 You've misunderstood me. Sure' date=' the kid picking up a pair of Vans sneakers ain't being exploited. My point was Vans seeking to exploit the punk community - the movement itself. They have no interest in punk, in those acts who appear on the tour. They couldn't give a damn. They only wanna sell shoes.[/quote']I don't agree.But I think you should just leave your one man crusade against the man for now.You really don't know anything about the company or their ethics (nor do I).You should maybe write to them or contact them about their involvment with the punk scene etc? Would be good to find out i reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 They only wanna sell shoes.Which is what they do....!Tell me, do you only purchase goods from companies who follow the same ehic as you?Or are youre shoes home made from re-cycled car tyres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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