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fuck Vans


Guest allsystemsfail

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blaming vans for exploiting the punk community is like blaming dr martens and bic razors for all the hidings folks have recieved at the feet of nazi skinheads.

the product isnt the problem, its the people that buy the product.if vans are such bad cunts, why do a million punk kids or whatever still embrace them? punk isnt what is used to be, fact.

i dont really care either way, i think any scene that rates community/fashion/politics/limited edition coloured vinyl over the actual music should be swiftly burnt down.somewhere along the way people missed the point, which is equal parts funny and sad.

cant go wrong with ninjas though, black clad flexible demons of shadow and night.

this isnt directly picking a fight with you dave either before you start making voodoo dolls, aimed at the thread in general.

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I have little knowlege of the current "punk" movement, it appears to have taken on some kind of religious status, the whole anti corporate thing seems a little odd to someone who's knowlege of the beginings of the uk punk trend is that it was an outlet for the work of Malcolm McClaren and Vivien Westwood....

Sorry if im being silly... :help:

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Guest allsystemsfail
Which is what they do....!

Tell me' date=' do you only purchase goods from companies who follow the same ehic as you?

[/quote']

Yes, it is indeed what they do. However, where they seek to exploit a community - one built over many many years, I (and others like me) will not stand idly by and allow them to do so.

Regarding the purchase of ethical goods - I do what I can, buying them wherever possible.

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Guest allsystemsfail
I have little knowlege of the current "punk" movement' date=' it appears to have taken on some kind of religious status, the whole anti corporate thing seems a little odd to someone who's knowlege of the beginings of the uk punk trend is that it was an outlet for the work of Malcolm McClaren and Vivien Westwood....

Sorry if im being silly... :help:[/quote']

It was not a product of the minds of McClaren and Westwood. Such a thing is myth - one which McClaren has sought to exploit. Politics was almost from the outset an important facet of punk. Take for instance The Clash. Or folks such as Crisis, Sham 69, SLF... Many outfits too would take a stand against the fascists with RAR.

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Yes' date=' it is indeed what they do. However, where they seek to exploit a community - one built over many many years, I (and others like me) will not stand idly by and allow them to do so.[/quote']

Well it's taking you fucking long enough to do anything about it!

Vans Warped Tour is 10 years old already.... you guys move at some pace! Frightening! I'm sure Vans are pishing their pants.

;)

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Guest allsystemsfail
Well it's taking you fucking long enough to do anything about it!

Vans Warped Tour is 10 years old already.... you guys move at some pace! Frightening! I'm sure Vans are pishing their pants.

;)

I had meant by raising the issue. Okay, while not specifically active in protesting Vans activities, I have in the past (with Grampian Earth First) been active in the wider anti-sweatshop campaign, targeting both Nike and Gap.

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I had meant by raising the issue. Okay' date=' while not specifically active in protesting Vans activities, I have in the past (with Grampian Earth First) been active in the wider anti-sweatshop campaign, targeting both Nike and Gap.[/quote']

I know, i was joking.

Good for you. As long as you feel like you are contributing something to your cause and beliefs. That can only be a positive thing.

What was the result of the campaign out of interest anyway? Did these companes take note or change any of their policies?

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My two pence:

The point being missed here is that the majority of bands on the warped tour are nothing more than rock bands with personal lyrics, and have never had or wanted anything to do with the anarchopunk/crust community, i don't see vans as exploiting anyone here (in reference to the sponsorship not shoe production) to be honest no more than say a brewery sponsoring a football team. I only want more people to become interested in the music i play/listen to and not create such boundaries between myself and them that it becomes unaccessible and written off as a bunch of over the top activists, sure Filthpacts lyrics are politically aware its a fucked up world we live in and i feel justified to comment on this, but the reasons we're in the band is to meet new people, see new things and most of all have fun. The punk community needs a new supply of fresh blood and if through such endorsement more people are introduced to the music then fair play, what it doesn't need is a scene police stating what is and isn't acceptable, people should be free to make their own decisions.

This may contradict past statements i've written, but my mood and views change like the weather and this is nothing more than an internet forum.

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I know' date=' i was joking.

Good for you. As long as you feel like you are contributing something to your cause and beliefs. That can only be a positive thing.

What was the result of the campaign out of interest anyway? Did these companes take note or change any of their policies?[/quote']

The campaign has had a significant impact in terms of raising an awareness, forcing these corporations to defend their use of sweatshop labour.

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My two pence:

The point being missed here is that the majority of bands on the warped tour are nothing more than rock bands with personal lyrics' date=' and have never had or wanted anything to do with the anarchopunk/crust community, i don't see vans as exploiting anyone here (in reference to the sponsorship not shoe production) to be honest no more than say a brewery sponsoring a football team. I only want more people to become interested in the music i play/listen to and not create such boundaries between myself and them that it becomes unaccessible and written off as a bunch of over the top activists, sure Filthpacts lyrics are politically aware its a fucked up world we live in and i feel justified to comment on this, but the reasons we're in the band is to meet new people, see new things and most of all have fun. The punk community needs a new supply of fresh blood and if through such endorsement more people are introduced to the music then fair play, what it doesn't need is a scene police stating what is and isn't acceptable, people should be free to make their own decisions.

This may contradict past statements i've written, but my mood and views change like the weather and this is nothing more than an internet forum.[/quote']

While it is true than many of the acts on the Warped tour are not specifically political, there are codes of belief that are central to the punk community - that make it what it is. It is fiercely anti-corporate. As I've said, Vans (via such a tour as this) are seeking to exploit punk's popularity, and so, we should say no.

I'm sorry but you cannot compare the sponsorship of football teams with such a thing as this. It is quite different. Sure, we wanna reach more folks, but where are we gonna draw the line? Compromise ain't gonna get us anywhere. What we believe, this scene of ours, will become meaningless.

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While it is true than many of the acts on the Warped tour are not specifically political' date=' there are codes of belief that are central to the punk community - that make it what it is. It is fiercely anti-corporate. As I've said, Vans (via such a tour as this) are seeking to exploit punk's popularity, and so, we should say no.

I'm sorry but you cannot compare the sponsorship of football teams with such a thing as this. It is quite different. Sure, we wanna reach more folks, but where are we gonna draw the line? Compromise ain't gonna get us anywhere. What we believe, this scene of ours, will become meaningless.[/quote']

exactly though Dave, their exploiting its popularity, the popular stuff.

When it comes down to it, the actual bands who care about the punk community have nothing to do with Vans, and Vans have nothing to do with them. Its the bands fault. If the bands actually cared about the punk community, then they'd refuse t play and Vans wouldn't have a tour.

So Im gonna say don't blame Vans, blame the bunch of popular 'punk' outfits which jump 6 feet in the air and ram a cock in their mouth at the thought of playing as part fo the tour.

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While it is true than many of the acts on the Warped tour are not specifically political' date=' there are codes of belief that are central to the punk community - that make it what it is. It is fiercely anti-corporate. As I've said, Vans (via such a tour as this) are seeking to exploit punk's popularity, and so, we should say no.

I'm sorry but you cannot compare the sponsorship of football teams with such a thing as this. It is quite different. Sure, we wanna reach more folks, but where are we gonna draw the line? Compromise ain't gonna get us anywhere. What we believe, this scene of ours, will become meaningless.[/quote']

But what i'm saying is the bands involved have nothing to do with the scene or community yourself and i involve ourselfs in, the word 'punk' has become the new 'rock' for this generation, perhaps if it was Vans sponsering a crass reunion i'd feel more angered about it all but these are rock bands nothing more or less.

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Guest allsystemsfail
exactly though Dave' date=' their exploiting its popularity, the popular stuff.

When it comes down to it, the actual bands who care about the punk community have nothing to do with Vans, and Vans have nothing to do with them. Its the bands fault. If the bands actually cared about the punk community, then they'd refuse t play and Vans wouldn't have a tour.

So Im gonna say don't blame Vans, blame the bunch of popular 'punk' outfits which jump 6 feet in the air and ram a cock in their mouth at the thought of playing as part fo the tour.[/quote']

Sure, the bands should I guess carry at least some of the blame, just as those punk outfits should who choose to play Clear Channel shows. However, while a lotta the outfits who play these shows may not be my kinda thing, many are indeed still punk bands, and so I think my arguement can still apply.

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But what i'm saying is the bands involved have nothing to do with the scene or community yourself and i involve ourselfs in' date=' the word 'punk' has become the new 'rock' for this generation, perhaps if it was Vans sponsering a crass reunion i'd feel more angered about it all but these are rock bands nothing more or less.[/quote']

Think we're gonna have to disagree. A lotta these acts sprang from the punk community. Some are still involved, and so I believe can still be judged as others are. I just cannot say - hey, those guys ain't punk just coz they do not hold with many of the beliefs I do.

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Here we have a perfect example of how language is fucked with, as I mentioned in an earlier post.....

To me and most (i guess) other people "punk" is a musical genre, to some its some kind of ethic, a way of life. I believe that because the vast majority see "punk" as a form of music then these "punk the lifestyle" dudes should fuck off and get a new name, invent a name, dont steal another word from our already defined language.

I'm too old for change!

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Sure' date=' the bands should I guess carry at least some of the blame, just as those punk outfits should who choose to play Clear Channel shows. However, while a lotta the outfits who play these shows may not be my kinda thing, many are indeed still punk bands, and so I think my arguement can still apply.[/quote']

Most "punk" acts now a days never say they have ANYTHING to do with punk ethics or anything else like that. As was said they just play music that is put into that genera.

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Guest allsystemsfail
i thought vans were made primarily for people who skated and not to "exploit" all these little kids. At the end of the day they make comfy as fuck shoes so why all the bother??

Sure.

:rolleyes:

Hey, I like my Vans. They're comfortable. Don't give a flying fuck bout those who work long hours in sweatshop conditions. Your compassion knows no bounds.

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Guest allsystemsfail
Most "punk" acts now a days never say they have ANYTHING to do with punk ethics or anything else like that. As was said they just play music that is put into that genera.

I already addressed this.

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Im not certain on how to take the "sure" do you disagree that vans were made for skating with???

Sorry, that wasn't in reference to your point bout skating, but about what you said bout Vans being comfortable so why should we care.

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