PC recording...

[Tav]

For say recording drums it's desirable to record each of the mics to a seperate track if you can, so you can adjust individual pieces and EQ. What would you use with a PC that lets you record multiple tracks and then sends them to serperate tracks on the programme you are using? Just wondering how this works...?

[spellchecker]

i don't know if this is strictly what you are asking about, but here's something i often do when recording drum patterns.

1. record a drum pattern on a drum machine

2. copy the drum pattern to an empty pattern on the drum machine

3. delete all but the kick drum beats on the copied pattern

4. record pattern to computer

5. repeat steps 2-4 for each drum sample used in the pattern.

so the end result will be, for example, 4 wav files (one each for kick drum/snare/cymbals/toms). These can then be multi-tracked in something like Acid/Cubase/Logic etc. etc. and eq'd individually with plugins in the specific program.

this can be a pain on the arse, but it can make your drums sound lot better, as the mixing of drum samples by the machine can often leave them flat and drowned in the mix.

are you talking about recording live drums though? if so, and you have numerous microphones, then it's likely that you will need some sort of mixing desk anyway, if not simply because some of your mics may need phantom power.

[Alex]

a mixer with an interface to the computer, a soundcard with lots of mic inputs, submix a mixer to a soundcard. Just bung it straight into a sequencer package. One of my friends uses an acoustic kit with midi triggers hooked up to a roland v-drum brain.

[soundian]

Originally posted by Tav:

For say recording drums it's desirable to record each of the mics to a seperate track if you can, so you can adjust individual pieces and EQ. What would you use with a PC that lets you record multiple tracks and then sends them to serperate tracks on the programme you are using? Just wondering how this works...?

Just wondering what the actual question is?

If it's how to record multiple tracks then the obvious answer is to have a soundcard which will let you do so.

If it's what do you do with them once you've recorded them, use the big flappy things on the side of your head to determine when it sounds right, but don't get to anal about it cos it'll all change when the rest of the band start playing.

(Spellchecker, he said mics in the first sentence, all your talk of .WAV files. Pah!)

[spellchecker]

Re: Re: PC recording...

Originally posted by soundian:

(Spellchecker, he said mics in the first sentence, all your talk of .WAV files. Pah!)

yeah i know, i was just trying to be helpful at the expense of relevance. i thought it would be more likely that Tav had a single input (i.e. line/in or mic/in) soundcard and a drum machine, than a multi-io soundcard with a mixing desk, a drum kit, and a set of mics with which to record a live kit.

[ghost]

record live to a 4 track, then play each track into the computer - if you don't have a multi input soundcard that is!

[Tav]

I just wanted to know really if/how a program can record all the inputs of a multi-input card to sperate tracks within and usually how many simultaneous tracks can your record with a PC.

[spellchecker]

Originally posted by Tav:

I just wanted to know really if/how a program can record all the inputs of a multi-input card to sperate tracks within and usually how many simultaneous tracks can your record with a PC.

Most programs worth their salt can do this. The way this is usually done is that tracks in your software application have 'recordable' flags that can be toggled. so for example, say you had 4 tracks in your software application:

1. Guitar

2. Drums

3. Bass

4. Vocals

It would probably be the case by default (but is typically alterable) that each track would take the corresponding input from the soundcard, i.e. the guitar track would record from input 1 on the soundcard, vocals would record from input 4 on the soundcard, etc.

Anyway, say you and your friend want to record bass and guitar at the same time, overwriting whatever you already had in the software application (i'm assuming just for the sake of argument that you had already recorded drums and vocals into their respective tracks), this is how it would probably be done:

* toggle the recordable flags on tracks 1 & 3 (guitar & bass)

* click the record (or sometimes record and then play) button in the application

* start playing your instruments.

The typical limit of how many simultaneous tracks you can record on your computer can be surmised by a few different factors:

1. The number of inputs on your soundcard

2. The number of simultaneous channels the software application is able to record

3. The performance capability of your computer

The first factor is probably the first you will encounter, as multi-io cards are typically expensive, and more expensive the more inputs and outputs that you get with it.

The second tends not to be an issue these days, however the third really is. Latency is a big problem with computers (latency being the delay between the analogue signal reaching the soundcard's a2d converters and your computer being able to do something with it, be that commit it to disk, or play it back through the soundcard). As a general rule of thumb, I don't think you'd want anything less than 7200rpm hard drives. Good drivers are also critical for good multi track recording on computers, as they have a huge effect on the latency value that you will get (e.g. badly written drivers produce high latency). If you are going to have lots of realtime effects (on the computer, not outboard effects) going as well, then you'd probably want a fairly high spec processor with good FP performance.

[ghost]

*bows to spellchecker's superior knowledge*

[Tav]

Cool that was a great explanation. The basic info I wanted was "track would record from input 1 on the soundcard, vocals would record from input 4 on the soundcard, etc" so I would just select the input I wanted from how ever many there was unlike just now where I select wether I want to record from line or from mic.

[threeornothing]

Tav,

There are a load of sound cards on the market with break out boxes allowing 4 or 8 or 10 or whatever line signals to be recorded simultaneously. Usually the card will come with software which has been prewritten to cater for the sound card, so it knows to create a seperate wav file for each line input. As we're usually dealing with line inputs it would be desirable to have the mics first hit a mixer which has direct outs on each channel, and have the direct outs going to the break out box, although the card I have (Maxi Studio Isis, discontinued I think but always one ebay) seems to cope fine with the mics direct. The thing is, even if you have to use specialist software that recognises your sound cards 8 inputs or whatever (ie. my Maxi Studio Isis has a special version of Logic Audio thats written to cope with the card) you have the flexibility of using the wav files in any audio multitrack software. I prefer to mix all my stuff in Nuendo or Cubase, although my PC always runs into latency problems when I try to record with these programs, so I record using a much lower spec program Sony Vegas. Its a good idea to set a tempo map, and keeping the same tempo map across the various applications you use. Even if you're not going to play along to a click, if you want to punch in a solo on one track right at the end, its going to be pointless recording from the very start of the song, especially if you're low on disk space.... so find a snap point and punch in there, then in the other program find the same snap point and drag the wav file there......dragging wave files all over the place isn't always great and will lead to lost sync, so better organised you start, the better chance you stand of migrating your project to different apps.....this probably doesn't help or answer any questions! hehe, heres some cool gear though...

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/d2/page/shop/browse/category_id/098175452abe956a3718429239ca9a5d

[Tav]

I can now see what people like paying 500 and getting a 10track with hard drive and CD writer built in. A lot less hassle yet not as much versatility/power as a PC I guess.

[spellchecker]

Originally posted by Tav:

I can now see what people like paying 500 and getting a 10track with hard drive and CD writer built in. A lot less hassle yet not as much versatility/power as a PC I guess.

yeah, that's a good point. we once used a mackie 24 track hard disk recorder, and it was so reliable, didn't have to worry about what sound card it was using, what software it was running, whether it was going to run out of steam, etc. however, they do cost a lot of money. if you have enough patience, computing knowledge and audio knowledge, you can create a setup that will equal and better any such hard disk recorders.

i haven't gone to that point yet, which is my current excuse for being so lazy with the songwriting.

edit: and ditto what keilan says about tempo, it'll save you a lot of hassle in the long run. same as making sure the first guitar you lay down is in tune.

[ghost]

here's a hint - you want to reduce latency problems & increase hard disc space? if possible, chop up your guitar tracks into loops. then you're only using a fraction of the space... it's the main reason i can still use a P2 225mhz for recording!

[spellchecker]

i suppose it depends on what you want to do. i used to do that on a PII-300 for ages, but gradually as i started doing more and more complex stuff it would get to a point where i could never play anything back in realtime because it had to keep stopping and starting to read from the disk. the only way i could listen to stuff was to mix it down to a combined wav file, which isn't much good if you want to really tweak volume, pan, effects automations.

i never usually loop guitars, but when getting first ideas down, i do that a lot for drums and bass. ian, what do you use for multi-tracking? is it adobe audition/cool edit?

[ghost]

yes. i do know what you mean about having to mix parts of the song to wav as you build up the tracks. sometimes i start entirely new sessions (a bit like bouncing down on a 4 track i suppose), which then allows me to tweak some of the tracks, then i have to load up the other session to tweak the other tracks and mix down. i think i've just made it sound more complicated than it is!

i use cool edit pro 2. it's going to take a revelation to make me change to another software package...