Geldof sez: THE CLASH WERE SHIT!!!

[Diesel]

Punk Rock

Geldof is a total c**t and his band were pish.

However, he has a point...

The Clash's image, like most British punk rock, was fake.

The whole image thing was engineered by Malcolm McLaren on ideas he ripped off from the likes of the New York Dolls, Dead Boys etc, to promote his boutique SEX.

Basically, the London Punk movement (Bromley Contingent, London SS et al) were a bunch of yaw-yaw Sloane Ranger wannabee, university dropouts who were too ugly for the debutante circles. Just look at a few photo diaries for evidence - outside of Souxsie (who was kinda sexy), all the girls were repulsive wee trolls with speech impediments (Toyah, Polly Styrene etc) and the guys were utter mingers (Sid Vicious - an advert for "Blitz Those Zitz" if ever there was one).

Punk in Britain was a complete myth, the sales were poor*** and there weren't even that many actual punks outside of London.

A lot of the act that jumped on the punk bandwagon and "made it" weren't punk bands at all - Stranglers, Ian Dury & Blockheads etc.

***What "Punk" records actually made any impact on the charts outside of the Pistols???...

(back in the day when you had to actually SELL records to make the charts)

1. Souxsie & The Banshees : Hong Kong Garden - about as punk as Liberty X

2. Clash : I Fought the Law - a cover of a 60's hit

3. Jilted John : Jilted John - Graham Fellowes, an actor taking the piss

4. Plastic Bertrand : Ca Plain Pour Moi - a Belgian stand-up comedian.

5. Skids : Into the Valley - a wannabee actor and art critic (Jobson) fronting a frustrated rock band

The list of fakes goes on....

Music-wise the Clash and the Pistols were VITAL, especially the early stuff. A few decent bands rose from the pile of shite that was Punk Rock...The Ruts were fantastic andThe Danmed were good fun.

Other that that? F*ck-all.

The only band of genuine punks were...The Ramones and Punk is probably the only popular music genre where the Fat Americans were actually ahead of us in the game (excl. blues, jazz etc).

Think about it - Punk made such a "lasting impression" in Britain that the very bands they claimed were "boring old farts" (quote: Rotten) and were finished, came back with vengance just 18 months later and brought a whole new generation of acolytes with them - Motorhead, Maiden, Saxon, Whitesnake etc...

Yes, Geldof is a pus-ridden, festering, weeping japs-eye of an excuse for a human being...but he makes a valid point.

Thank you folks, you've been a lovely audience - don't miss my show at the AECC it's call "Ripping the Pish Out of Everything". Tickets on sale now.

DZL

[Biz]

calling a spade an earth inverting horticultural implement...

http://www.uk-dance.org/knowledge/social_aspects_of_music/000056.html

Mon the wee independent labels and taping John Peel,punk rock was a lot more than selling merch or getting on Top of the pops,Pans People dancing to The Clash Bankrobber was indicative of what happened to bands unwilling to conform by miming.

[Diesel]

Punk? Schmunk!

calling a spade an earth inverting horticultural implement...

http://www.uk-dance.org/knowledge/social_aspects_of_music/000056.html

Mon the wee independent labels and taping John Peel' date='punk rock was a lot more than selling merch or getting on Top of the pops,Pans People dancing to The Clash Bankrobber was indicative of what happened to bands unwilling to conform by miming.[/quote']

F***kin sooooooooooooooperb !!!

D'ye think the guy that wrote the piece gets out much

I particularly like this passage...

"Punk-rock tracks invariably feature one or more guitars, which are invariably 'treated' with distortion or feedback. In the mid 1970s, this was a reaction to the 'clean' sounds of mainstream pop. Guitars are generally played in a somewhat simplistic manner, with few chords. Those chords that are used often 'bleed' into each other, giving the suggestion of a 'buzz saw' or drone, where individual notes or chords are barely distinguishable."

I bet he was so chuffed with his "work" that he immediately went upstairs and threw one over the wrist.

DZL

[Sam_b]

Noone ever gives the Swell Maps their due...

Geldof's a mouth, sometimes good and bad

Nah, ALWAYS bad.

[Diesel]

Angling...

Stop right there. I see what you're doing there' date=' and it's quite clever. However, you are being selective with the truth. Punk in the 70's was never about the music, it was about style and attitude. Bands as disparate as Joy Division, Talking Heads, Television, Ramones, Magazine, Slits and Pere Ubu all fitted comfortably into the "punk" category despite the varied styles of music they were producing.

You also fail to mention the success of bands such as The Jam, Buzzcocks and The Undertones, all of whom achieved great things chart-wise. You're also only taking single sales into account. If I were to do that with, for example, metal in the 70's, I could point out that Black Sabbath only had one top 20 hit, and Led Zeppelin never had any. Singles chart sales for Yes, ELP and King Crimson were just as poor, so it just goes to prove that you can make statistics prove whatever you want.

You've also got to remember that a lot of early punk bands were on smaller independent labels, so they didn't have the clout of the majors. They couldn't press up 100,000 singles for general release in one week, for example. This led to the early singles by punk bands being much sought after, and excellent album sales when the bands signed to majors.

Absolute nonsense. Apart from the bands I mentioned above, there's Stiff Little Fingers, more political and angry than the Pistols, and a huge influence on the big punk acts today. Sham 69, a band that were cut off in their prime by right-wing idiots getting the wrong idea. Not to mention bands such as Crass, Subway Sect and The Dead Kennedys, genuine talents and huge influences on the punk scene and beyond today.

Mmmm, no, wrong again. Just about every form of popular music that has evolved over the past 100 years has come from the States. The British managed skiffle, which was just American folk music sung in regional accents, and we were probably ahead of them when it came to dance music, but only just. Jamaica produced reggae. Anything else is completely made in the US.

And punk spawned a new group of bands to counter them. Squeeze, Elvis Costello, The Police, The Cure, the entire ska/reggae scene etc. They didn't do so bad either.

What, "Strummer's dead so I can be a complete arse about him with impunity"?[/quote']

Aw jeez, it's not even fun anymore it's so easy o_O

It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Lighten up fer feck's sake.

DZL

Ps - forgot about SLF. A good band.

Pps - The Ramones reference was that they were real street punks, not middle-class whitebreads.

[Sam_b]

And since when did class have anything to do with it?

"Oh look at me, I'm more authentic" Pish.

[Guest MKII]

And since when did class have anything to do with it?

Duh...

[Sam_b]

Thanks for that oh-so coherent response.

[Guest MKII]

Anything else is completely made in the US.

Hm, dunno about that, a lot of european bands circa 1969 - 1974 took a fair bit of influence from european classical, baroque etc...

Then there's your (western)indian influenced raga type groups and so on.

[Guest MKII]

Thanks for that oh-so coherent response.

My apologies(no sarcasm)...

But class, social background etc had a lot to do with punk.

[jester1470]

What' date=' "Strummer's dead so I can be a complete arse about him with impunity"?[/quote']

To be fair, this has been Geldof's opinion for years, you can read it in his biography 'Is this it' which was released in 88 I think, where he talks about how he doesnt understand a lot of the punk attitude as he considered it fake, he actually felt the Rats had more in common with the rock'n'roll bands of the 70's such as Thin Lizzy (he was even in a band with Lynott called the Greedy Bastards) as he felt that they were actually more honest. He wasnt waiting until Strummer was dead this has been his opinion for years and he has stated it frequently before.

Cheers

Stuart

[Biz]

Banghra outsells everything but you don't see them in the top 40 charts or citing American influences.

[Guest MKII]

Yeah' date=' I see what you're saying, but have those bands become as much of a part of the zeitgeist as the punk bands did? Are they rock n' roll bands who take classical influences or classical groups with a rock twist? Either way a big part of their sound originates in the States.

[/quote']

I dont agree with the "big part", but also I cannae be bothered talking about it... mainly because the 'popular' thing throws a spanner in the workings of my point.

Thread topic: who cares what Bob say's anyway? Has he got a new compilation out or something?

EDIT: But, if you look outside the UK and USA, my point has more clout!

[framheim]

Stop right there. I see what you're doing there' date=' and it's quite clever. However, you are being selective with the truth. Punk in the 70's was never about the music, it was about style and attitude. Bands as disparate as Joy Division, Talking Heads, Television, Ramones, Magazine, Slits and Pere Ubu all fitted comfortably into the "punk" category despite the varied styles of music they were producing.

You also fail to mention the success of bands such as The Jam, Buzzcocks and The Undertones, all of whom achieved great things chart-wise. You're also only taking single sales into account. If I were to do that with, for example, metal in the 70's, I could point out that Black Sabbath only had one top 20 hit, and Led Zeppelin never had any. Singles chart sales for Yes, ELP and King Crimson were just as poor, so it just goes to prove that you can make statistics prove whatever you want.

You've also got to remember that a lot of early punk bands were on smaller independent labels, so they didn't have the clout of the majors. They couldn't press up 100,000 singles for general release in one week, for example. This led to the early singles by punk bands being much sought after, and excellent album sales when the bands signed to majors.

Absolute nonsense. Apart from the bands I mentioned above, there's Stiff Little Fingers, more political and angry than the Pistols, and a huge influence on the big punk acts today. Sham 69, a band that were cut off in their prime by right-wing idiots getting the wrong idea. Not to mention bands such as Crass, Subway Sect and The Dead Kennedys, genuine talents and huge influences on the punk scene and beyond today.

Mmmm, no, wrong again. Just about every form of popular music that has evolved over the past 100 years has come from the States. The British managed skiffle, which was just American folk music sung in regional accents, and we were probably ahead of them when it came to dance music, but only just. Jamaica produced reggae. Anything else is completely made in the US.

And punk spawned a new group of bands to counter them. Squeeze, Elvis Costello, The Police, The Cure, the entire ska/reggae scene etc. They didn't do so bad either.

What, "Strummer's dead so I can be a complete arse about him with impunity"?[/quote']

as definitive a reply to that nonsense as you could get. *applause*

although i disagree a little with you saying the US has been responsible for most of great music movements of recent times. they may have made it popular but it was certainly influenced by music from this side of the atlantic amongst others. even blues and country took scottish folk influences. but right enough the yanks made it all popular before anyone in britain could.

[Guest MKII]

It all comes from Africa!

[Biz]

Yellowman might agree but I doubt if the Taiko drummers would.

[Diesel]

Pfft. That's the best you can do as a response? I'm disappointed.

Zzzz....