Guest Philip Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 A few weeks back, I had a long think about music, and what it is etc, I came to two rough conclusions here they are:1) Music in it's most basic form, is the disturbance of silence, but also the use of silence.2) There is no good or bad music, music simply 'is'. It is the listener that fails to appreciate, or manages to appreciate what he is listening to.What do you think? Do you have any other definitions of what music is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by Philip:A few weeks back, I had a long think about music, and what it is etc, I came to two rough conclusions here they are:1) Music in it's most basic form, is the disturbance of silence, but also the use of silence.2) There is no good or bad music, music simply 'is'. It is the listener that fails to appreciate, or manages to appreciate what he is listening to.What do you think? Do you have any other definitions of what music is? I can disturb the silence in a very basic form, doesn't make it music. Back to the drawing board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayeth Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 or is silence a disturbance of music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayeth Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 No i've changed my mind and made some kind of rankingSilenceBackground ambienceSoundsGodspeed You Black EmperorMusicHowever, I'm questioning if there is such a think as TRUE silence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Philip Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Re: Re: Music...Originally posted by soundian:I can disturb the silence in a very basic form, doesn't make it music. Back to the drawing board.[/quoteBut say someone likes the way in which you " disturb the silence in a very basic form"? Say they hear it as music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Re: Re: Re: Music...Originally posted by Philip:Originally posted by soundian:I can disturb the silence in a very basic form, doesn't make it music. Back to the drawing board.[/quoteBut say someone likes the way in which you " disturb the silence in a very basic form"? Say they hear it as music? So that just boils down to your second point then. Music is only music if the listener perceives it as music. Which makes all debate on the matter irrelevant if true. My dictionary says its 'the art of making sound in a rythmically harmonious way' which I think is a better starting point. It implies deliberate actions with some structure. Dropping a tea cup wouldn't be considered music by any sane person, dropping several tea cups in quick succession may (it would sound like a bad cafe accident to most people though). It's the difference between noise and music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Philip Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Yeah, I think intent would need to be part of it, not sure about structure, but I disagree with the dictionary definition because I dont think music has to be rhythmic or harmonious!I'm just interested to see what people think music is... defining it appears to be an impossible task though!I hope this doesn't end up as some big argument thread though, please refrain from personal slagging etc people!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Rocker Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Originally posted by Philip:2) There is no good or bad music, music simply 'is'. It is the listener that fails to appreciate, or manages to appreciate what he is listening to.What do you think? Do you have any other definitions of what music is? I've been trying to get that across for years on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redmeat Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Originally posted by Philip:A few weeks back, I had a long think about music, and what it is etc, I came to two rough conclusions here they are:1) Music in it's most basic form, is the disturbance of silence, but also the use of silence. If you look at John Cage or the fluxus movement, music doesn't even need to be the disturbance of silence! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 there are some things such as "organised sound" where the composers in the 20th century discard pitch rhythem and harmony etc. I personally feel this isn't music, but still it is classed as music. that is definitly just a disturbance of silence! also things like "musique concrete" where natural sounds are recorded them modified ie. cutting re-assembling playing backward adding speed changes etc. I dont really 'like' this but i can appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Philip Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Intent seems to be a key factor, silence could be said to include (natural/unintentional) ambient sound.How about: Music is the intentional disturbance of silence and also the intentional use of silence/ambient sound! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Originally posted by Philip:Yeah, I think intent would need to be part of it Not necessarily, music could be made accidentally - recording it would require intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Philip Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Originally posted by Philip:2) There is no good or bad music, music simply 'is'. It is the listener that fails to appreciate, or manages to appreciate what he is listening to. So, it looks like a minimal version of point 2 might be it:Music simply IS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott 5FD Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Re: Re: Music...Originally posted by Philip:Music simply IS yes, but what is it? that's the point of the thread, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Technically by your argument... mere speech is a form of music? Yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessHolly Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Is a fart music? Is the door slamming shut music? I may be confused but from what I can tell, you're saying that any sound is music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Philip Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 I'm trying to find a definitve definition for music...Perhaps all sound and silence can be, or is music!?Perhaps music cannot be defined, it simply is!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Philip Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Originally posted by Lester Burnham:Technically by your argument... mere speech is a form of music? Yes? It's not an argument Sharon.What is your definition of music people, I'd like to know?Here's a link to an article on the subject: http://www.knowledgegeek.com/item/Defining_Music_118.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 In my opinion,sound is anything you can hearmusic is any combination of one or more sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Simpson's got it.I think music is a combination of one or more sounds with some format of structure, following some form of beat or showing some of pattern.PS: I shoudn't have used the word, "argument" sorry, Phil. Discussion... I should have used that word. Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Philip Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Originally posted by Lester Burnham:Simpson's got it.I think music is a combination of one or more sounds with some format of structure, following some form of beat or showing some of pattern. This doesn't take in to account a lot of stuff that has been called music though!Why does structure and rhythm have to be involved for it to be called music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Originally posted by ghost:In my opinion,sound is anything you can hearmusic is any combination of one or more sounds. No. Go back to my teacup analogy. If I dropped several teacups in a row that would be music by your definition. What if I just wanted to smash some teacups, the noise they made was irrelevant to me, that wouldn't be musical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Philip Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Originally posted by soundian:No. Go back to my teacup analogy. If I dropped several teacups in a row that would be music by your definition. What if I just wanted to smash some teacups, the noise they made was irrelevant to me, that wouldn't be musical. Perhaps this is accidental or unintentional music!So the intent behind the smashing of the tea cup would have defined what that sound was, before you smashed it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Originally posted by Philip:This doesn't take in to account a lot of stuff that has been called music though!Why does structure and rhythm have to be involved for it to be called music? Pitch or tone change as an alternative to structure or rhythm could also lump something under the label of, "music".Which would pretty much bring in every sound known to man...so yes.... then if that is true... everything is music, regardless of it's origin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Philip Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 I'm beginning to think that all sound/silence and also the vibration's that are created by sound/silence IS music, but that we are unable or refuse to recognise or acknowledge the fact that this is the case! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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