Kaizen

Any more information about you? age, experience etc.?

Might be interested in guitar/vocals.

Hmm... definately interested. how bad is this crack? is it like... threatning to snap in half, or tapped off your dest once kinda thing? will it need repaired or replaced and does it effect the sound? dont really want to throw a price out there for fear of insulting you =P i am a student afterall so my ideal price would be about... minus 2 grand... pay of my student debt =P

Yo! I've got an old Ovation Celebrity going if you want it. Wee crack on the headstock but you could negotiate a price if you like.

might go and have a look after uni today.

Ta for the help!

Yeah that sounds worth a look. if i can find where holburn junction is... =P

Doesnt have to be in great condition. Just for playing to myself and stuff. Dont have much money at the moment so it would have to be under 100.

Ta

Chris. Your display pic is from Preacher isnt it?

Slightly off topic, but its been bugging me for a while...

i thought it was funny... haha! even if the actual meaning was somewhat questionable...

not exactly a fair point there dan... haha! When gary glitter molests kids, someone loses out (namely the kids). No one really lost out here, all the bands had a good time, some people won some prizes and the promoter made a bit of cash. Win win situation.

just quickly going back to the battle of the bands point, My old band did a battle of the bands once. The prizes wernt that great and we knew we wouldnt win anyway. Apart from the fact that some of the other bands were probably more talented than us, we were also, by far, the heaviest band there and we knew tht wouldnt go down well with the "judges". The reason we decided to go for it anyway, was that we knew we would be playing to a nice new crowd of people that had never heard of us before and thus get our name out a little more. This is exactly what happened. One of the judges said "Too heavy for my taste" and another said "heaviest thing since cannible corpse" (which i totally disagree with by the way...) but, regardless, we had a bunch of people come up to us afterwards that we had never seen before and tell us they really liked our stuff. So all around it wasnt a bad deal. And i had a bloody great time =)

edinburgh has some ace bands.

and it's paid not payed people.

Name some... I can think of... 2. 3 if you include fife n stuff. And none of them ever even play here! In fact! One even calls themself a "glasgow band" in order to get more gigs in glasgow because they know that nothing happens here. Trust me on this one, i live here. It wasnt so bad 2-3 years ago, but now the whole scene is dead.

There is, of course, always, the famous, "All your base are belong to us!" against which, I feel, all others are simply insignificant.

Wow that sentence has loads of commas...

While I'm at it! Did you know the sentence "Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo" makes perfect sense?

That seriously grinds my gears. I see the word photo's every day and feel like giving english lessons to everyone who does it.

That would be fine if the sentence was, "This photo's nice isn't it?" wouldn't it?

I know, but some people seem to complain the whole time about rubbish promoters. I was deliberately stating the obvious in order to point out that people are talking as if they have not noticed the obvious.

As a guitarist iv struggled. As a vocalist iv been in a fair few for my age and played a fair few gigs for my age too through all sorts of promoters and to all sorts of crowds (from 8 people to 600 people). Believe it or not, just cos im 17 it doesnt make me any worse off than you lot. Im not saying im the most experienced on this forum cos im not by a long shot, but i have had enough experience to know how stuff works.

From my experience, everything i said is true. I disagree with you. I think any promises of payment should be fulfilled, and if there is any money left over, a decent promoter would split it between the other bands AND himself. However i realise there are promoters out there who dont work like this. If you dont like how they work, dont use them.

nah its just kinda a jam thing to let me play a wee bit of guitar you know? If it goes well, then we shall see!

The other one im doing vocals for.

Depends. Had the promoter told the bands they would get payed, no thats not fair. However, I realise that these things happen, but then these promoters soon enough get a bad name and no one will use them.

Assuming this was a generally good promoter we are talkiing about, if its wrong for him to no pay some bands in order to take some money home, at what point does it become ok for the promoter to profit? Bearing in mind, they have had to put as much, if not more, work (usually a lot less fun work) into the whole gig as the bands have. Im not a promoter myself, but i think it is just as important for the promoter to make money as it is for the bands. Taking into account that most promoters enjoy promoting much less than most bands enjoy playing, If a promoter doesnt make money, he/she is much more likely to quit than a band is. Promoters quit, scene dies. Value your promoters people! They keep the whole thing alive!

I never said that supporting bands should get payed the same or more than headliners, but surely they should get something for their services and music. Hence why I mentioned the 20 quid nominal fee, obviously that would be less than the headliners but it's something, not much, but I appreciate it all the same. I like to get something from gigs, be it exposure or getting to play/meet a band I'm a fan of. More often than not, neither of these are really possible in this city on a regular basis, thus a wee bit of money is nice for our several weeks/months of writing and practicing. To me it's far from "a 30 minute set" that we are getting payed for, as that set wouldn't exist without lots of rehearsal and practice on one's own instrument. Also, I tend to have to sacrifice work to play gigs as I work 5 nights a week, that means I can lose 40 quid a month to play a gig and probably piss off my manager.

Fair enough if thats how you feel, and if you are missing work to play then obviously, you are losing out because of the gig. As for me, im losing nothing by playing the gig and im getting to do what i love doing. I personally enjoy my rehearsal and practice time, so i dont see why i should expect money for that. And as far as supplying a service goes, to me, the promoter is paying me in exposure for my band and good times.

Nah different one. lol.

I totally agree. But its not the most important thing and im not gonna go mad at a promoter for not paying me so long as iv not lost any money on the gig. As for difference in quality... Thats not how it goes in edinburgh =P Then again... there is a bit of a quality band drought in Edinburgh, so most of our headliners are from elsewhere.If i had a full touring career and 15 albums on my back but only ever made just enough money to live off my whole life, I would be happy, because i would have had the best job on earth. I think, at the level of most local bands, We should be aiming at making our music as good as possible, playing as often as possible, getting our names out and having a bloody great time while we are at it. So long as im not losing out, money comes second to those things to me. If anyone disagrees (which im sure they will), then they are fee to and they will have their own motives for doing so (regardless of whether i understand them or not). However, on the other side of the coin, this is my opinion and I'm not stupid enough to get hassled around by usless promoters taking me for a ride, so i dont understand why any of you should have a problem with me having my opinion.

P.S this was agreeing with Daveofficer by the way...

Moving up to Aberdeen from Edinburgh and id like to play some music =)

Looking for something kinda foo fighters/biffy clyro style stuff?

Im not very good at guitar, but ive been told that the best way to learn is to get a band =P so... equally untalented musicians wanted! haha! or talented musicians that dont mind playing with untalented ones...

Im 17 by the way. Let me know.

It's exactly this attitude that enables shitty practices like pay to play to manifest and thrive.

Young, naive bands are being ripped off because they don't know any better and they think they're getting a good deal. The reality is they're getting screwed. You're getting screwed.

Naw im not. I dont do pay to play. I dont think its right to ask bands to pay to play. That could defy my formula you see =P

This left me down 45 personally. It was worth all the hassle in putting on the gig just to see Rouge again, who are beyond the use of superlatives; I can't believe how much I love them.

See thats more like it. Music is worth more than money to me and its nice to see that someone would go to so much bother and spend a lot of money simply in order to see a band they love. And im sure they guys would understand that you cant pay them so long as they havnt lost any money by playing that night.

P.S I wasnt aware i was particularly abusive... haha!

You might have played the best gig ever in front of all your mates but what help does that do anyone?

It helps me... cos i've had a good time for free. Forget it. It makes sense to me... I love playing, and for me thats well worth the amount i used to pay on practice rooms every week. If you cant understand that, then you arnt going to, regardless of what i say, so just drop it.

But if one band gets money why shouldn't any other bands that play with them?

Because one band is better than the others... This is why they would (usually) be headlining... Thats like saying how come one footballer get payed more than another?

I dunno, maybe i just have a different mentality than you guys (not that yours is wrong or that), but in my eyes, If im first on a bill, Ill play the gig, get my bands name out a little, have a bit of fun, meet some new people, get into the gig to see some (hopefully) good bands playing after me for free, maybe get a drink or 2 off some mates for playing a good show. This all happens because the promoter decided to put me on the bill and in return, i bring in a few more people and the promoter makes a bit more money. To me that makes it mutual. Im having a great time, Mr/Mrs Promoter gets a wee bit extra cash and my band become slightly better known. Sooner or later, my band will become well enough known to play gigs outside of their home town and then i would maybe ask for a little money to help cover travelling costs etc, but as far as im concerned, The promoter is supplying me with a good night, im supplying him/her with some extra income and that makes it a mutual night between us.

In other words:

(The value of Good times + Free drinks from friends + Promotion of band + Entertaining people + New friends) - Band costs >= The value of Promoters extra income due to my band playing.

Thats just the way i see it. Any money gained in such a situation is simply bonus.