Contra the rhythm section

[soundian]

Of course' date=' where name calling fails to challenge me on an intellectual level, sarcasm triumpantly succeeds!

Ideal music is hypothetical, it has and can never be acheived, and the highest music yet composed is that which does not strive to be ideal. That is why I persist with rock music, because i am a realist, as i see the need for rhythm in rock, i see the need for appreciation of rhythm through dancing: hence rock! but surely we should engage in discussion on ideas?

That is all for now[/quote']

We would discuss it of we could figure out what you were talking about. Drop the psuedo-intellectual bullshit and start typing english in coherent sentences and without contradicting yourself.

Btw, do the drummer and bass player in your rock band know you regard them as some sort of lower lifeforms not fit to be classed as musicians.

[*Craig_HexPen*]

hmm .... i dont really understand where your coming from here ...

music is just a way of expressing yourself via sound so i suppose a musician is just somone who expresses themselves by making a noise. This is why i dont understand how a person could be any less of a musician than another person based of what instrument they are playing *dribbles on carpet*

Seeing as music is just sound , in my eyes a good musician is someone who knows where to place a noise of a certain freq , length , pitch ect. taking into account its relation with its surrounding noises in order to create a desired effect.... .com

[Guest Albatross]

Hold on, hold on, I've gone away and pondered, and i think i've reached a conclusion we can all agree on. Deep breath:

Prior to the last century, what was considered music was only the sound of notes (let's call it classical music). but progress has been made to what we now call music, via the popular genres: folk>blues (here a non musical sound is introduced: beating the acoustic guitar with palm while playing it) >pop>rock>punk. So amplification, echo, sustain etc. that came in around pop/rock contribute to this progress, and yes even bass and drums are included. So is classical music now to be discounted and marginalised? No, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Strauss etc. can be considered cultural artefacts as ancient folk is, and the Beatles will be in however many years. Also, the bands listed in my "listening to" section are amongst those who introduce classical principles into the popular format. "All Is Dream" by Mercury Rev is a recent example of this, and Tragedy Masks will of course be the pinnacle of this strain of the art of popular music!

[Guest Albatross]

Ironically, i only subscribed to this website to search for candidates for the vacant position of drummer in my band. I suppose i've gone the wrong way about it and here will end my search, but if there is anyone who beats the skins out there and would like to prove me wrong by improving our songs with your drumming, then you can private meassage your potential partner in crime (my bassist):Jimmy Jazz.

[Tav]

You Portlethen lads really crack me up!

Really and why's that?

[soundian]

Hold on' date=' hold on, I've gone away and pondered, and i think i've reached a conclusion we can all agree on. Deep breath:

Prior to the last century, what was considered music was only the sound of notes (let's call it classical music). but progress has been made to what we now call music, via the popular genres: folk>blues (here a non musical sound is introduced: beating the acoustic guitar with palm while playing it) >pop>rock>punk. So amplification, echo, sustain etc. that came in around pop/rock contribute to this progress, and yes even bass and drums are included. So is classical music now to be discounted and marginalised? No, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Strauss etc. can be considered cultural artefacts as ancient folk is, and the Beatles will be in however many years. Also, the bands listed in my "listening to" section are amongst those who introduce classical principles into the popular format. "All Is Dream" by Mercury Rev is a recent example of this, and Tragedy Masks will of course be the pinnacle of this strain of the art of popular music![/quote']

Ah, but it isn't just the sound of the notes, it's the rhythm of the notes as well, that's why music notation contains information on both rhythm and pitch.

Beating an acoustic guitar in a rhythm which fits in with the music being played isn't non-musical, the same as a snare roll isn't non musical. Classical percussionists can't be called non-musical but they fall into the same category of 'beating something with rhythm'.

Bass and drums have always been something that composers/musicians have utilised, classical music has both in abundance.

[Guest texjamm]

Quote: I'll accept the distortion of notes can be considered progress, but as part of an art form which serves to be socially relevant (rock), not the art of music.

Sorry to burst your bubble but ALL music is made up of sound. Sound is made up of vibrations. Vibrations have to be transmitted through a medium (usually air) to allow us to hear it. Whilst that perfect sound propagates towards us it reflects off other objects causing imperfections (distortions) within the waveforms. So unless you can plug your perfect sound generator directly into your perfect auditory system youre scuppered!!

Im interested in what youre definition of the art of music is? Is it simply theoretical composition of a piece of music without the requirement to convey it to others? If so, its like painting the Mona Lisa and then not letting anyone look at it. This could be construed as a pointless exercise.

Quote: What has been called music throughout history has been the sound of notes, not the noise that accompanies them via electric instruments. That is artificial.

Music, like speech, has developed over many, many centuries and an analogy lies between the two forms of communication. Speech started of as simple grunts with no past, present or future tense, music as simple notes without proper coherence, harmony or rhythm, but hey it sounded good to the caveman. As time passed by, the grunts turned into a few basic spoken words whilst music began to form its own rules. As things progressed, people of different cultures began to decide what they liked to hear, kept those rules and discarded the rest. All todays music is, is an evolutionary process. If you still prefer to beat your club against the hollow stick to produce your pure musical tones then I will not stop you, Its not my preferred form of music. All I ask is that when you adopt your pure caveman music get rid of your caveman mentality and open your ears to the many forms of music out there and dont slag off other people because they may adapt their pure sound waves with external influences eg: distortion, flanging and oh my goodness dare I say it, that most unnatural of effects that gets used on ALL recordings (even the ones YOU like)echo. (I apologise to any readers who were just offended by my use of such a foul four letter word.)

There is a BIG difference between musical / classical principles and actually being able to convey the emotions within a piece of music. I personally dont think Bob Dylan can sing, but he can express his lyrics and music wonderfully. He gets his message across without having to fall into the pigeon hole of pure music.

Oh, as a matter of note the harpsichord and lute were once thought of as radical new instruments which produced outrageous sounds, the Beatles got in to trouble because they had a 100 watt sound system and people thought the earth was flat

Quote: here a non musical sound is introduced: beating the acoustic guitar with palm while playing it

Are you sure it was the guitar you were beating whilst writing your prose? Im not sure if you are aware but all music is made up of frequencies (vibrations please see my first paragraph). Each and every sound you hear is made of vibrations so therefore each and every noise you hear is made up of a multitude of vibrations of differing frequencies with many timbres, overtones and harmonics. Put these sounds in an organised collection and hey presto what do you get..music. Yes, even the beat of a palm against an acoustic guitar produces vibrations of a frequency that can be determined as particular pitch and therefore a musical note

[Paul G]

Does an electric guitar not produce notes without them being electrified and amplified' date=' which only serves to distort them. What has been called music throughout history has been the sound of notes, not the noise that accompanies them via electric instruments. That is artificial.[/quote']

does noise accompany a note? when you say 'note' i assume you refer to something that's determined by the frequency of the sound. isn't this note a characteristic of the sound? can you have a note without a noise? isn't that a bit daft?

[TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH]

Albatross, from reading yr posts i do believe yr band should be called Captain Arsehole and the Arshole Brigade...