Synth

[Stripey]

would the sound from a hardware synth not be better than from a software synth?

Not necessarily, these days. The sound recorded from a hardware synth is only as good as the A/D converters in your soundcard. Anything generated in software doesn't have to go through that kind of potentially degrading process.

Things have come a long way in the world of softsynths and a lot of them can create really great sounds. If you are interested in getting into sound design I'd definately go down the midi controller / vstI route since generally softsynths offer more complex routing options, easier preset management and so on. If you're really interested in sound design you can go down the route of modular synthesis with stuff like Reaktor or Plogue Bidule (which is a favourite of mine).

[Guest lime ruined my life]

i'm going to add at this point that the micron has a lot of internal routing options. As i said before though, it can get frustrating navigating through layers and layers of menus using one nob.

the plus side of the micron is the full size keys, instead of the baby keys on the microkorg.

you should look at the novation k station though.

Novation K-Station | Studioground - Novation

it seems similar spec to the micron but has lots of controller nobs.

[Stripey]

Also, since when did digital synths have a to d convertors?

Well unless you've got a synth with an S/PDIF output, you're going to have to record the audio back into your machine through some kind of A/D convertor, obviously...

[Guest lime ruined my life]

Well unless you've got a synth with an S/PDIF output, you're going to have to record the audio back into your machine through some kind of A/D convertor, obviously...

i thought you meant inside the synth, not recording it, i've removed the comment.

software has to go through d/a convertors to be played out the speakers mind you.

[HairyScaryMark]

Not all analogue synths are mono. Modern "analogue" synths are actually digital modelling synths, handle polyphony and don't go out of tune. Some of them even model that behaviour too though if you want it. With a bit of skill and use of effects you would be surprised at the range of sounds it's possible to get out of even a 2 oscillator analogue synth.

Don't fear the controls, the more controls the better, what's especially important is the flexibility of the internal routing system which lets you make proper use of LFO's and other modulation techniques.

Modern digital modelling synths are obviously not analgoue, so that is hardly relevant. I use software emulations of a prophet 5, mini moog, oscar, arp odyssy, mellatron amongst other things.

There have been some true analogue synths which could play more than one note at a time but most never really took off. The only ones I can think of were the prophet 5 (with 5 note poliphony) and the arp oddysy which was duophonic (2 note poliphony)

My point remains, a workstation style keyboard will get you a reasonably sized keyboard, probably also with reasonaby nice keys, wide range of sounds and relatively quick learning curve. Probably a good idea to base your synths around a workstation which is relatively central to it. 64 note poliphony is also standard, even in some lower models.

........................................

I own (and currently use) the following

Korg Triton Extreme - 61 key workstaion keyboard

NATIVE INSTRUMENTS: Komplete 4 - bundle of software synths

M-Audio GForce Future Retro Pack - bundle of 4 software emulations of analgogue synths

NATIVE INSTRUMENTS: KORE - host programme for running software synths

NI Komplete 4 has as wide a range of sounds as any workstation synth and is priced accordingly.

The M-Audio emulations are cheaper than a nord lead and model specific synths rather well. Made use of mellatron more than anything, so far but I can see this widening as songs get finalised.

About 2/3 of my keyboard sounds are from software. I can see this decreasing to 3/4 or less in the next couple of months.

Software vs Hardware?

My advice would be, start off with hardware and build up software when you get a clearer idea of what sort of sounds you wish to create.

Software will not really be cheaper than hardware in the end.

You need a laptop and a host programme such as abbelton live, Native Instruments Kore or a sequencer to run the software in a live situation.

Also, software is less reliable than workstations and such. I have had my software crash in the middle of band practices and do really weird things like only play samples once and not again. Most of these things get fixed as software updates get released but it is a concideration. Some Native Instruments products are (or have been before software udpates were released) particularly unreliable.

The real advantages of software is the fact it can consist of immensely large programmes or sample libraries, which simply couldn't happen on a workstation synth which loads everything from ROM. The most realistic emulations of real instruments are from software.

I.e I have something like 2.5GB of mellatron samples on my computer and f'knows how much for Kontakt and Kompakt. Triton Extreme consists of 160MB of ROM for everything. The overall sound quality of software is usually (but not always) better but this is not reflected proportionally by the size of the sound files.

........

Seriously: concider an Alesis Fusion, it comes with a supposedly strong VA section. Alesis

The samples are regularly updated via the internet. It is conciderably cheaper than any other workstation synths and is possibly even better at many things.

If that breaks your budget. Korg X5 is possibly the way to go (at least to get you started).

[Stripey]

Modern digital modelling synths are obviously not analgoue, so that is hardly relevant. I use software emulations of a prophet 5, mini moog, oscar, arp odyssy, mellatron amongst other things.

There have been some true analogue synths which could play more than one note at a time but most never really took off. The only ones I can think of were the prophet 5 (with 5 note poliphony) and the arp oddysy which was duophonic (2 note poliphony)

My point remains, a workstation style keyboard will get you a reasonably sized keyboard, probably also with reasonaby nice keys, wide range of sounds and relatively quick learning curve. Probably a good idea to base your synths around a workstation which is relatively central to it. 64 note poliphony is also standard, even in some lower models.

Well, "virtual analogue" or modelled analogue synths such as the microkorg or access Virus range are the modern successors of the original true-analogue synths, they do essentially the same thing but with more features. The only real difference in sound which *might* be noticable between true analogue circuitry and good modern virtual analogue circuitry is aliasing in the digital output at extremely high frequencies.

Nostalgia about old synths pisses me off, it's the same old thing of "it's got VALVES in it, it must sound AWESOME"....*cue irritating pulse wave squeal*

Wavetable synths like you are talking about just aren't as much of a swiss-army knife when it comes to sound design so I don't find them very useful. I use a korg Wavestation sometimes and generally have to pump patches from it through a load of effects to stop it sounding like, well, a korg wavestation patch. These sort of ROM based synths are probably fine from the point of view of someone who just wants a few passable organ/piano/string sounds for stage performance though I suppose. It is really cheesy though when you recognise a preset from these synths in music you're listening to.

[Guest lime ruined my life]

It is really cheesy though when you recognise a preset from these synths in music you're listening to.

Totally!

last time i heard radiohead i was all like, "HEY! that guitar sounds JUST like MY telecaster!"

[HairyScaryMark]

Well, "virtual analogue" or modelled analogue synths such as the microkorg or access Virus range are the modern successors of the original true-analogue synths, they do essentially the same thing but with more features. The only real difference in sound which *might* be noticable between true analogue circuitry and good modern virtual analogue circuitry is aliasing in the digital output at extremely high frequencies.

I have never played a real analogue synth so I can't really comment on how accurate they are but they sound similar to what I hear on recordings. People say the filters lose their life.

Nostalgia about old synths pisses me off, it's the same old thing of "it's got VALVES in it, it must sound AWESOME"....*cue irritating pulse wave squeal*

From my understanding, the synth modelling software is much more realistic than amp modellers.

Wavetable synths like you are talking about just aren't as much of a swiss-army knife when it comes to sound design so I don't find them very useful. I use a korg Wavestation sometimes and generally have to pump patches from it through a load of effects to stop it sounding like, well, a korg wavestation patch. These sort of ROM based synths are probably fine from the point of view of someone who just wants a few passable organ/piano/string sounds for stage performance though I suppose. It is really cheesy though when you recognise a preset from these synths in music you're listening to.

I always thought the Korg Wavestation synth was a very specialist piece of kit. I would imagine it either creating the band's sound or being used a relatively small percentage of the time.

The workstation synths are largely ROM based samplers, quite differnet from 'wavetable'.

disclaimer: i am not an expert.

p.s Most music software products have demo versions avaialbel to download off their website. I would recommend trying many of them out.

[HairyScaryMark]

On another note. New M-Audio products for NAMM.

KeyRig 49 note USB keyboard

unbeatable value at $129 USD

Comes with M-Audio KeyRig software synths, which I thought was good value at being 129 USD on it's own and Abelton Live Light

Ideal for someone starting out with keyboards. Great soundset without compromising on quality.

..........

Of more interest to myself is M-AUDIO - Virtual String Machine

[FatHand]

That really is quite a lot of technical guff for someone who was looking for a keyboard to learn on.

I started off playing the piano as a child and fairly recently got a stage piano - which is great. I eventually started using bass and guitar pedals with it which was a good way to learn about basic effects (something I never got as non-guitar player). After having a go of someone elses synth, I was inspired to buy one of the same type - definitely worth trying before you buy. I use it for those atmospheric noises/classic lead style synth noises (which can fit nicely into the type of music I play and want to play) and generally to make stupid noises and muck about with. Incidentally, along with some very basic descriptions printed from the net, messing around with all the buttons and knobs was not only great fun but a great way to learn how to use the analogue modelling synth I had just bought. I still dont know most of what it is capable of. I would have got a Nord Lead if I had the money at the time as it is no different in principle to any other keyboard of this type.

If you are looking to learn how to play a keys instrument the piano/piano style keyboard may be the best thing to start on. If you get one with midi (or whatever the latest way is to plug into your computer), you can use it as a control keyboard and muck about with the soft synths as well. I have not managed to get this far yet so wont preach. You will also be able to take it onto a stage at a later date if you wish.

I would ask someone to show you the basics of keyboard playing as well as it will make the whole experience much more enjoyable. I am currently giving some lessons to one of my friends who bought a synth on a whim - he has got a lot more out of his synth since this.

He bought a Roland Juno-D. It is a digital synth with nice enough synth noises which you can change the parameters of, but more importantly it has good piano and classic keyboard noises on it. Not bad for learning the basics with. I hope this helps.

Roland JUNO-D Synthesizer :: Overview

[Roam]

If a soft-synth is a option, i highlt recommend checking out the U-he Zebra 2