Marsh

Graham Hopkins always seems to be forgotten about, perhaps because he wasn't like Fyfe and had to deal with the expecatations of being a carbon copy

And the fact that he is Ronan Keating's cousin!

Like the snare sound or not, I have no album in my collection that sounds like it. Let's compromise and say it's unique. Listening to it now, in fact - I still think it's one of the best drumming albums out there.

Peep - I like that El Bastardo's sound. Lyrics are a big, er, strange, but a definite Therapy influence. Good shout. I'm imagining early albums with decent production and salivating! Babyteeth without the whole "sheet metal" production would be a powerhouse. Pleasure Death's production always reminds me of Joy Division somehow, but it so dosen't work with a metal band. If it was beefed up I would reckon this would be a stone cold classic.

u lot are mad. therapy had some good tunes, good riffs, good tones but the most shitty assed pocky pock snare sound ever! by jee-saw! are you all deaf, the tunes are great but the drums? pish!

Certainly not deaf, min.

You're entitled to your opinion but you're the first person I've heard describe the man machine that is Fyfe Ewing as "pish."

i couldnt be bothered reading the whole thread but a report made by boffins at strathclyde university concluded without any shadow of a doubt it was graeme souness who killed off nu metal....

That figures - he tried to kill off enough careers when he was playing......

Weren't Deftones waaaaaaaaaaaaay before the annoying Nu-Metal that we all know and hate? They're more akin to hardcore than Nu-Metal in my view.

I'm a huge Deftones fan who would never consider them "Nu - Metal" but I would generally consider Nu - Metal as poor Deftones wannabe bands when it all started. No one was as effortless and cool as Deftones. The whole "must have a turntablist" thing that all associated groups had to have was a Deftones thing as well. Was it just the lack of solos? Maybe. But it's not really that important, some groups that were / are considered Nu - Metal I really like some I think are the absolute scum of the earth. The whole "scene" at it's height was just really unappealing and just gave Kerrang! an excuse to pigeonhole bands without really giving it much thought.

I once heard a nerd say Nu - Metal was a band that didn't have guitar solos so I said wow, Kraftwerk are Nu - Metal, then. He didnae get it. Never mind - that was years ago now. how time flies.

And it's a horrendus name - "Nu - Metal." It was enough to put you off any new band at the arse end of the nineties before you'd even heard them! Bag o' shite!

Anyway, there's "nae such thing as Nu - Metal" isn't there, Mr. Commander?! Roar!

I just said the word Nu - Metal for the seventh time -

If I say Nu - Metal two more times That's nine "Nu - Metals" in this fucked up rhyme.

Oh dear. Sums it up, really. Ta ta for a bit. Schmickles.

Colonel Mustard, with the lead piping, in the billiard room.

Jake Spike, with the Dunfermline Athletic plastic bag, upstairs at the Palace.

October 20th....

See you there. Are you as confident as you were last season that Caley are finally going to actually beat the Dons?

I look forward to using the portable bogs, getting a pie from the most tuck shoppe style "hatch" i've seen since 1989 and sitting in the temporary stand!

Only joking, It's the best laugh our mob have all season - we go to a truly magnificent social club (cheapest beer ever) who lay on grub and bus us to the ground with the Caley fans. It's then a trip into toon to this big bar which I don't know the name of then a carry out from the Safeway for the 9 train home. It's brilliant fun. And we always win or at the least draw!

Really? They'd be better than Derek Young, but I don't know if I'd have them back in a flash. Neither are better than what's at the club just now.

I think Young's a bad signing, but he hasn't cost us anything and his wages must surely be peanuts after his time at Partick. So as long he's only used as last gasp cover then I'm not too bothered. Honestly.

At least that's the mantra I'm going to be reciting to myself until the start of the season.

I never said either were better than what we have at the club, but if Jimmy's that desparate for cover I'd have McGuire and Darren Young back in a flash as opposed to Derek Young.

He's getting 500 a week, according to the Cooncil Mole.

He's simply not a good football player, so I can't see how things will have improved after his frankly unsuccessful spells with Dunfermline and Partick.

Must give a real source of inspiration to the young guys like Maguire when Jimmy's giving contracts to ex - players who were shite the first time round. Shows real confidence in the youngsters..........

Brewster and Young to start against the Arabs? I'll give odds of 7/4...

Its not too late to get Crawford, Muirhead, Darren Young and McGuire back too...

I'll give odds of zero. Young won't play this season unless there is a bought of flu or something! Just cut it out - we're still trying to ocme to terms with this!!!!!!!

I'd have McGuire and Darren Young back in a flash but Muirhead and Crawful are just a sick joke!

Possibly the worst signing Jimmy could have made. That's three straight seasons in a row he's made panic signings that will eat up wages.

I mean Derek fucking Young? I would have Darren back, but Derek Young? He's one of the worst "strikers" i've ever seen play for the Dons.

Therapy? are fan-fucking-tastic! Went to Glasgow last May to see them and they are absolutely brilliant live. Although their older albums have that raw sound, I quite like the newer albums, NANE and OCFA are certainly much more produced than previous records they've done, but they are still really good albums. OCFA is definitely in my top 3.

Troublegum brought them some limelight, but then they did SP-YF which was basically noise, but good noise (to me at least) and folk didn't really associate that with the "poppy" style of Troublegum, which is a shame.

Nice one - I've seen them live a couple of times and they were fantastic. Always a safe bet for a great night of music with Therapy? onstage.

There was the so - so Infernal Love (more of the pop, less of the metal) and Semi - Detached (less of the good tunes and overall direction) before Suicide Pact which I agree is indeed a great balls out rock album - I enjoy it a lot too. I just reckon Troublegum is superior as it has both the noise and the hooks. It's genius!

Been listening to this a fair bit over the last couple of weeks and it reminded me of good times. Screamager at the Mudd Club was a true staple every week and it was glued to my walkman at school.

Despite it being quite "angsty" which made it perfect for me and probably a few others to listen to in their bedrooms, I still think to this day it's a pure gold album. The riffs are spot on and despite the heavieness it's always underpinned with a great melody and / or hook. It's the drums, though - I reckon this is one of the best drumming albums out there. Fyfe Ewing was a genius - he hits so hard on this album and is so steady I reckon it's close to perfection.

Despite some good albums I reckon they never even came close to matching Troublegum.

I just love the way it all hangs together so well - a real album if you like. And in Screamager and Nowhere two of the best rock singles from the nineties. It's probably one of the most accessible "metal" albums I have.

Anyone else a fan of this album or have any thoughts on it?

This Egyptian jaunt's turning into a bloody nightmare for the Dons. Another defeat? First choice keeper injured? A car crash?

Just listened to the interview with Hart on RedTV - he's far from amused with the setup in Egypt - least of all the kamikaze driving from the locals. he has a right go at the bus driver - you can hear him saying "bloody hell."

Jimmy better decide on his defence soon. And we'd better cuff Inverurie.

Yeah, it's all good.

I had a miserable day yesterday and had I not been stuck in the office after getting some pretty bad news I would have taken out my anger on a punchbag or something.

But that's no excuse - Apologies to Lep and let's save our anger for the Brits!

Whoaaa!

Marsh, I don't think Peep was having a go at you in the manner you thought he was. All he was getting at is that (and I think I'm right with this, anyway!) the Mercurys are sort of aimed at and appeal to a certain group of people who like music, but also aren't that bothered by it on a day to day basis, as well as hardcore music heads who could tell you the b-side of every Fall single ever released.

I guess it's sort of like you can't please all of the people some of the time, or all of the time, or indeed at all (in my case). I totally understand where you're coming from, and the artists you've listed and commented on make more sense than some of the names that make the list. And from my perspective, I'd like the list to be a little bit more edgy. But we both clearly have an interest in this kind of stuff, and as such are always gonna be a bit more elitist than neccessary (without really meaning to, of course...)

And to his credit, Mr Peep always had a very open approach to music, just listening to stuff cos he felt like it (and then reccomending it to me, who at that time, was actually to snobbish to check it out myself).

But ain't it cool that we're all yakking about music with such vigour? Eh? Eh?

I understand, dude - I just don't like being lumped in with those who have no substance to what they're saying. Or being called a snob or someone who is a smug bedroom vinyl junkie. I certainly do sound a moan now, so there's no getting away from that!

I repect Peep on this board, but I thought those comments were condecending in places and it hit a nerve I suppose. It's nae fine to be lumped in with a general view or taken out of context.

But yeah, it's good we're discussing music with passion. And I hold no grudges - I just wanted to get my point across, which I have now.

Getting a bit annoyed with the putting words into my mouth, like, Mr Peeps.

You are looking at this thing from your (and I talk of Marsh too) perspective of a deep knowledge of "underground" music...I know plenty of bands too that should be considered "the cutting edge"...but, you can't see it for the good it can do too, perhaps kids who only think that chart music is the only pop music around might see some of the acts, and then start to explore a bit deeper, and wider might actually get something from it?

I certainly don't have, or have even implied that I have a "deep knowledge of underground music." You've confused me with that one. I just cannae see where you're coming from. I would never say I had a deep knowledge of underground music so you've missed the boat there. In terms of the kids being subjected to decent music - I am in full agreement. I've always encouraged kid's stuff like McFly doing a Who cover, as the kids might be tempted to pick up a Who's Greatest Hits which might lead to an interest in more groups. You're preaching to the converted here.

So I reitterate the "snobbery" aspect of your points, they are not invalid, but it's evident you don't see the whole picture (I liken it to snobby eliteist artists slagging off the Turner Prize....it's not the be all and end all of cutting edge art, far from it, but 90% of the public won't have heard of the artists nominated). as goes for the musicians we all know and (probably despise) because the seem to us to be 'too popular'...

Snobbery doesn't come into it all. It's turning into "stupidity" on your part - you really don't have a clue what I think. I'm certainly not one of these fucking morons you think I am that only like music that can be bought online or in the deepest recesses of One - Up. Artists who never made the list (that I like) that I reckon should be on include:

Manic Street Preachers

The Good the Bad & The Queen

The Wildhearts

UNKLE

Kaiser Chiefs

Jarvis Cocker

Erasure

Gruff Rhys

Jah Wobble

Gallows

Paradise Lost

Now you just assumed I'm another one of those pretentious twats who reckon the list should have have been filled with stuff know - one knows of and "like, in a semi - ironic kind of way, is showing the masses that they know nothing" (said in a nerdy voice.) Anyway, that's the kind of stuff I would like to see on the list - okay, it's not all "overground" but the point i'm making is - dinnae say I'm not seeing the full picture or shying way from anything that is "too popular" as this just isn't the case.

and then there is just the pain old moaning, because of the "choice" of bands not fitting with your idea of what should be nominated....it's like complaining that big brother is shite....or there's too much porn on the telly (never!)........

I certainly don't think any awards ceremony should be based on my idea of what should be nominated. That would make for a pretty uninteresting awards for probably 99.999999% of the population. That's just a stupid, smug comment on your part. Do you really think that I don't see the point of an award like this or I am going to stamp my feet like a child because the "choice" doesn't fit my view? Get real.

celebrate your circles that DO promote and champion TRUE cutting edge / representative music ...

Again, you've completely missed the boat by a mile here. I can't say I am in a "circle" that does this. The closest I get to this would be seeing a lesser known band at the Tunnels or Moorings. It's an album of the year award, so it's a poor show if a selection of the albums up for nomination are not big sellers or have not been in the public eye, as that's marginalising those who would watch the award. In many ways I disagree with the fact that they seem to always include token albums that many have not heard of just to make up the numbers or appear "relevant" as an ward - you know, doing an NME and claiming "first dibs" on a band or artist know - ones heard of (or likes) for a very good reason........ Anyway, The Mercury were trying to promote "TRUE" cutting edge music and were acting like the kind of clown you think I am when Talvin Singh won it in 1999. In the end, everyone checked out the album and decided it was one of the worst albums of all time and an undeserving winner. It would have made far more sense to give the award to Blur, The Manics, Underworld, Faithless or Chemical brothers who had far better albums than that drivel. Albums that had sold thousands of copies. But hey, they were being "quirky" that year and going against the grain. Folk can see through that attitude to choosing the winner and it was wrong.

If anything, I would say that the Mercury Prize is a "circle" that attempts to celebrate "TRUE" cutting edge / representative music" as you call it - when the mood takes them. Roni Size, Dizee Rascal, Talvin Singh and Anthony & the Johnstons (even more "cutting edge" as they're tenuously British) were hardly household names when they won the award.

On a par in terms of "cutting edge" with my Q magazine, Scuzz, Zane Lowe and nights at the Moorings etc.

I reckon the list is a poor reflection of what's eligible. I think they go with the same artists year after year. I don't like the process which goes into deciding the winner. I don't like the fact that that artists have to pay to enter. In any case, the awards are now going to be dutifly ignored in order to avoid any more moaning.

looks like a mashup of last years entrants too?....(I can't remember).

Amy Winehouse was nominated 2..3 years ago? (that's what made me buy her first LP, her performance that night was spectacular).

I love reading all the haters, it's just indicative of snobbery...

I've actually been informed positively of at least two artists I now listen to, thanks to this "load of shite". (Polar Bear & Winehouse).

fuck you lot of pencil necked blinkered dongs. (he whispered).

open your ears and don't just jump on bandwagons, I dislike most of the "obvious" NME dahlings on the list (every year), but rise above, rise above.

It's not about jumping on bandwagons. It's not about being blinkered. It's certainly not snobbery. It's the fact that this award seems to be the same stuff every year with whatever the NME's been raving about thrown in with some "left - field" stuff that the massess have never heard of, just to keep it "cutting edge."

The award is a redundant piece of shite decided by a 60 year old country and western fan that artists' labels have to pay to enter. And Talvin "who" Singh won it one year.

Whisper it - some of us have made up our own minds that the Mercury Music Prize is, in fact, a mockery of the British music scene.

I smell shite............

See two of the band have seen sense and left "Donny" to hastily find two replacements!

Glad you enjoyed the 'Loff - it wasn't exactly a vintage performance by them but enjoyable nevertheless.

I really enjoy the additional section in Neat Neat Neat too! To take what's basically a two and a half minute punk song and turn it into swirling progressive number takes talent! Also enjoyed the Love Song / Machine Gun medley a lot and Ignite is surely the most underrated Damned song? It's outstanding live!

It's amazing how they are still at the top of their game - They are one of those rare bands that really could show the kids of today a thing or two about live performance.

The keyboardist is a certified nutter called Monty the Moron. He loves it!

at the very height of their powers in '85.

Ah, without the Captain? Phantasmagoria's a cracking album, but it's just nae the same without the Captain!

Last night's gig was a belter. Really enjoyable. The Captain was on great form and Dave Vanian seems to be getting younger.

Haven't made up my mind about The Blah! Party yet, but the T - shirts were pretty amusing anyway!

I remember Braithwaite saying "this is difficult enough without all your shouting - can you keep it down please."

I remember hoping the next loud bit was in the post as it really was annoying.

Having said that, the band got paid for the gig and there was nothing on the ticket that said you had to be quiet throughout the performance. Maybe there were non - Mogawi fans there who didn't get but had paid their money for their ticket and felt entitled to blether throughout?

What can you do? Make a special "fans only" gig in Aberdeen where abody promises to be quiet as mice throughout? I know I'm in stunned silence when I see them play live!

I still think that young team is the best, and in my opinion, they've gone down hill ever since. I think it was the 4th lp (happy songs) when I stopped waiting and caring for them to release "amazing" lps - it just turned to wallpaper.

I agree 100% with that.

I really love the track Hugh Dallas (vocals 'n a'thing, min) but Mogwai Fear Satan will always be my favourite.

Mogwai at the Barras 1998 was one of my fave gigs ever. I was deaf for a week it was so loud!

Sold already, I'm afraid.

My uncle's in hospital and can't make it. If anyone's interested pm me. 125 is how much it cost all in, so that's what it's selling for.

Would have to pick it up tomorrow morning or at the festival itself. No problem either way, although it would be better if you could pick up. I live in Rosemount.

Cheers.

Furniture from the Furniture E.P. is my fave song. The riff is magic and it's got the quiet / loud thing going. I'd recommend that E.P. to all fans of Fugazi who haven't heard it. Repeater for me, album - wise.

I enjoy the call / response vocals from both singers. They work so well together.They wouldn't be the same without either of them!