framheim

If you do, you have to dress like in your avatar...

that's how i always dress...

That is excellent!

they've just sent me another message asking me to play at the museum when they launch the new building. I need to lie down...

as per the post on my kickstarter thread, sending a message to the Fram museum in Oslo asking them to share the project on their facebook and them deciding to back it with a chunk of cash and commission me to write a new piece of music for an upcoming exhibition is undoubtably ace-ic. 

Wow! What a great opportunity!

I know, i'm completely flabbergasted.  They just 'got it' and seem really interested.  Totally amazing day.

I've posted an update on the project including track no 2 from the EP - Race to the Pole

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1058136871/daemons-fram/posts/447205

Thanks for all the amazing support so far!

pretty valid for anyone involved in live performance, they should teach this shit in schools.

Aye it was rather special. They are genuinely one of the best groups around just now

so... people who are using it as a way of setting up a business which they'll profit from but not share those profits (as traditional investments would) good but musicians or artists using it to fund specific releases or start creative projects which may also generate profit bad? 

I don't really see the distinction.  it's valid for culture, product design and business projects, they all have a similar goal.  why wouldn't you get that angel investor feeling from funding a cultural product?  they probably need it more than a company who've designed a smart watch.

I think a lot of this is how the crowdfunding is perceived and whether people believe art or creative practitioners should be funded.  it's great if people can fund their own art but there'd be a real lack of art around if that was all that was relied upon.  artists need funding either from public sources or from private backers, crowdfunding is just a new way of acheiving that. 

or should all art be restricted to that which is commercially viable? 

It's an interesting debate for sure. With regards to my point about people who do music full time: to clarify, yes, I've definitely supported artists for whom music is not their profession, both by buying music and merch, sharing output and information on social networking and where possible, booking and paying artists to play shows. Where I tend to make the distinction is where it's suggested to donate in exchange for "good vibes/karma etc.". As someone, who like you, invests time, effort and money in my own projects, I tend to find that this sort of thing doesn't sit particularly well with me. In these cases, I'm more likely to give a donation, with nothing in return, to artists with significant overheads and outgoings, due to extensive touring etc. and who rely on their music for their livelihoods. I stand by this as I've met several bands and artists in this position and strongly empathise with them, much more so than someone like myself who produces music purely for fun. In fact in my case I'd probably suggest to myself to either offer a download or something in exchange for a few quid, or else help fund it myself by sucking it up and selling a few pedals or being a little more strict with my income from my full time job to fund my hobby. That's my personal opinion though.

With regards to reputation, whilst I totally agree with you that releasing something as a professional package only served to increase reputation, without any sort of preview as to what the funded body of work is going to sound like, I'm afraid that unless you know the artist personally, previous reputation is all you have to go by. In your case for example, we booked you for one of our gigs based on this. Whilst the music isn't usually my sort of thing, and I initially found your first EP a hard listen, I was totally blown away by your initial performance at Drummonds, suddenly everything clicked and this inevitably played a huge hand in us wanting to book you for a show. There's a lot to be said for word of mouth and building a strong live reputation underpinned by strong recorded material. Word will get around, I for one would definitely recommend you to other promoters and the hope would be that you'd perform more and drum up more interest. Once an artist has a bit of a following and reputation, when the time is right, a professional release could well serve to greatly enhance reputation and enable further creativity. I definitely agree with you there.

Regardless, I do wish you well with your particular endeavour and look forward to hearing the material.

beautifully explained as always claire.  I doff my cap to you *doffs cap*

I'd love to do more gigs.  if anyone would like to offer me some I am 'up for it'. 

I agree with most of what's said here.

 

If you're serious about your music and genuinely believe that it's of value enough to ask for help in funding a project then all power to you. However, it's also vitally important to work hard, gig hard and practice hard to establish a reputation, finely honing your art/musical ability to ensure that you're definitely going to be giving the best possible end product to those who will be supporting your project.  If you're asking someone to invest in your work, then I think it's only fair that it's likewise something that you've invested a substantial amount of time, effort and thought in, and this should be reflected in the rewards you offer.

 

Although I hate to be cynical, as it can be difficult, and occasionally frustrating to try to drum up interest in your band/project, I feel that it can be all too easy for anyone to start up crowdfunding project and often feel that unfortunately there seems to be a bit of a rush to get something, anything released all too quickly at an early stage, which to me can sometimes come across as a little disingenuous. 

 

As Martin has stated, I think it's important to be transparent in terms of overhead costs, have a clear-cut and well-researched goal with rewards that match donation values.  It might also be helpful to drum up some interest by providing links to a stream of a track or two.

 

As far as my bands are concerned, I don't think I'd be comfortable or have the self confidence in my own ability to ask others to help fund a release.  I also don't feel that either of the projects I'm involved with quite have the reputation, even at a local level just yet, to justify it. At the end of the day, although I invest a lot of time and effort in both bands, as well as money for practice room rent, recording and maintenance of equipment, it is ultimately a hobby for me and if I really wanted to physically release something, I'd be more likely to try to save for it (being in the position that my job would allow me to do so, albeit slowly. I'm fully aware that this isn't the case for everyone though and would be more inclined to support artists who are serious about going for it full-time). There are several platforms that are free to use to get your music out there initially and speaking for myself as an amateur, I'd feel much more comfortable at these early stages to offer music on a pay-what-you-like basis.

 

Good luck to those who do make a go of it and produce something of worth that they can be proud of though, I'll admit to having seen plenty of projects come out of crowdfunding that I have been genuinely impressed with, be it music, documentaries, tours, artwork or zines and I really like to see local projects doing well.  However, I will admit to having huge admiration for those who follow the DIY approach. This is something that I've only really experienced in terms of recording and promoting but have found extremely satisfying.  Local council funding for the arts is important too.

 

As for Amanda Palmer?  Asking for the assistance of musical peers in exchange for "beers and hugs" is incredibly patronising and insincere and her campaign is quite possibly one of the worst examples of the use of these fundraising facilities. (time for a username change perhaps!)

I'm quite surprised that you consider yourself an amateur and that both you and Jan make a distinction about doing music full-time.  the way you've phrased that sounds like earning your living from music provides validation for seeking funds to create a professional release, but I'm sure you've both supported bands and artists who don't create music full-time and have likely received funding in some way to facilitate professional releases.  I don't see why seeking to make music, or any creative practice, your full-time career should set you apart from passionate people who invest a lot of time, energy and creativity (even money) into a project in only their spare time.  

This is particularly relevant in some forms of music where it's nigh on impossible to live off the proceeds due to the obscure nature of the artform.

Other than that, some fair points. I'd say you shouldn't base it on reputation either though.  Surely a successful crowdfunding campaign can be used to build on a reputation and enhance it, while having a professional standard product at the end will also increase that reputation. 

everyone's entitled to criticise and obviously you're way more experienced at this than I am (this sounds sarcastic but it's not, you've been running a DIY label for a couple of years) as this is the first time i've attempted to put a proper release together . 

I do appreciate the feedback.  If people don't see the value or aren't interested in it then they simply won't back it.

I think this a pretty neat idea for an independent artist to get physical copies of their work out there.

I was really impressed with the E.P when I got that wee sneak peek through facebook.

Hope it all goes to plan Dave!

Cheers min!

I think that these crowd funding things are fine if you are doing music as your full time occupation, or are working in bars/shops/other low paid work to fund your main career as a musician. Seas, Starry briefly discussed this as an idea, but we all felt a bit uncomfortable asking for money to release music when we are all in reasonably well paying jobs and could just save our pennies to release something. We can use the money we earn playing gigs to fund releases, Das McManus did for our first EP for example.

I think people should definitely use crowdfunding more though, same as grant funding from Creative Scotland and local councils.  There's not many bands and such who seem to apply for these funds round here and they totally should.  It's admirable when people do it off their own backs and are able to save but it's not always that easy.

From my point of view, I don't get much gigs (and i'm certainly not paid very much in my real job) so it would be tricky to save up to do a vinyl release and doing it this way will allow me to do it properly and may even kickstart it becoming a label.

yea i think it has more value to bands and artists who are starting out rather than established acts, with a dedicated fanbase and who may already have access to ways of releasing or producing material.  it's not right for everyone though.

jeezo.  I certainly didn't want to come across as some kind of profiteering ass.  To clarify, each reward includes all previous rewards so it's going up a level each time.  Perhaps I should introduce two vanilla rewards just for the download and the physical vinyl without any liner thanks or extras? 

If i'm lucky enough to meet and exceed the target any profits will simply be put back into more music or even looking at pressing releases by other artists. 

Like i say, i hope i didnt come across as a dick asking that Dave, it wasnt my attention at all. Its just something new that i have no idea about. I dont have an issue with kickstarter as such, but i personally wouldnt get involved with it, only from my point of view, if i want to release something, i would go about it myself. But im not having a go at you for following that route, and i wish you all the best with it. 

nah you didn't come across as a dick, it's a question I expected to be asked as I know people have that view of kickstarter.  It's just another way of enabling projects to actually get completed. hopefully I've created rewards that people see some value in and will be keen to get on board with, if I haven't then I won't reach my target. 

There's no risk to those who are backing, if I hit the target the EP gets made and they get their reward.  If I don't, no money is taken. 

It's new for me too but hopefully it all works out and I can do more.  If I exceed the target then I'll put anything extra into more releases or putting on ace shows. 

They shouldn't.  Other people aren't paying for me to make an EP, no ones forcing anyone to back this.  Kickstarter is just a way to presell packages of a finished product or project and it's a great way to finance small projects which can be tricky to raise funds for.  

Quite simply, if I self-released this entirely off my own back it would take a couple of years for me to save up to do it.  Using kickstarter allows artists to build interest and develop projects with less risk and everyone wins.  Customers get a great product, usually with some extras and feel more engaged in the process and artists get to continue creating and producing work.

All I'm asking is for people to take a look and if they'd like to get involved they can support the project at a variety of levels, even just sharing it with their own friends.  If they don't want to get involved they just close the window and do something else.  I know people seem to have an issue with kickstarter but it's a brilliant way for people to raise funds and is here to stay.

I'd hate to think it comes across as simply me feeling like other people should fund an ep but this is a project I feel passionate about and if it goes ahead it will hopefully be a launchpad for further releases by a few different artists (not all using kickstarter).

Hope that helps explain the reasoning behind it.

Pft! To be fair, have you seen a cuter dog?

 

it looks ashamed to be called a dog. 

also, "if you'd like to did about the EP"?  what the hell was I trying to say there?  possibly suggesting that if you'd like know more about the EP just click the link.  sheesh, early morning phone fail.

Thanks Stuart, I did look at other options but I can't get it completed without raising the full amount and figured it was a good trade off for the extra awareness that Kickstarter has.  Sponsume is another good site for project raising.

I'll post more info tonight when I'm at home but please spread the word even if you can't support the project yourself folks!

I've got a new EP recorded and ready to go but would like to get it mastered and pressed to vinyl. In order to do this I thought I'd try a kickstarter project.

If you'd like to did it about the EP and maybe support the project then check out the page: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1058136871/daemons-fram

If the target is reached we make the EP. If the target is exceeded we might make more records by other people.

It had a few positives and a couple of negatives. 

Obviously the Great Intelligence is the story arc here and will be a factor in Clara's fate. It's a good story arc, and I don't know how it'll pan out.

It's interesting that there was so much focus on the book, written by Amy Pond. Was that just a nod or will it have more profound meaning?

The premise was shit.

Clara was very good, though she was a little bit showy when she entered the tardis for the first time. It didn't feel like a natural reaction but she's a great character.

bows can fuck off but that dog is cuuuuuute!