Conservative Punk

[kirkt]

proof that DIY punk is not dead is in small places like Boston (lincolnshire), Goole and Kirkcaldy where each gig is packed. I was in Boston last month and it was insane...all you ever get there is DIY punk gigs, everyone from Shatterhand to Tragedy to Brehvnez. All the kids (young kids) go wild...circle pits, wall of deaths, human pyramids....everyone has fun and theirs all kind of record and zine distros...if there was ever a gig which restored my faith in punk so much, it was that! And yes all the bands got paid!

It's easy to say that DIY punk is dead but that's cos we're in one of the worst towns or cities in Scotland for punk bands. How many people in Aberdeen have heard of Gorilla Biscuits, Youth of Today or GoodCleanFun? I looked in one-up and there was no records by any of these bands...

What other scene can you get tape trading with people in Russia or South America? I've made friends all over the world from DIY punk network so I don't see how anyone can criticise it

[betamax]

the 'underground' so called DIY punk scene is the opposite of punk

punk meant doing something new, pushing boundaries - not rehashing riffs and pseudo angry lyrics that have been played a zillion times by a zillion bands in the last 30 years

you people are what punk is actually against

even though i like the sound of a lot of the current DIY 'so-called punk' (everything Dave Rowlands turns his hand too sounds great).......but even though the music is good Im able to differentiate between that and what was punk in the real sense...cos its certainly not original or pushing any boundaries and I doubt it intends to

unfortunately no matter how much we wish it did.......punk in the sense of originality does not exist anymore

DIY means 'organised' NOT 'punk'

i suppose this starting to be another 'what is punk' thread....and that is probably because the word punk has been bastardised and so many people are ready to use it to describe something that it's not

[kirkt]

if you want a band that is pushing boundaries check out Fig 4.0 (i know i mention them all the time) but they really are the best band in the world today, doing something totally original...

http://www.bombedout.com/downloads/mp3/fig._4.0_-_give_up_your_day_job.mp3

http://www.bombedout.com/downloads/mp3/fig._4.0_-_red_ash.mp3

[Guest you_nazi]

punkier than thou.

[betamax]

if you want a band that is pushing boundaries check out Fig 4.0 (i know i mention them all the time) but they really are the best band in the world today' date=' doing something totally original...

[url']http://www.bombedout.com/downloads/mp3/fig._4.0_-_give_up_your_day_job.mp3

http://www.bombedout.com/downloads/mp3/fig._4.0_-_red_ash.mp3

tres good music but to be fair theres plenty of punk b sides from 76 and 77 that sound almost identical bar the modern sounding 'metallish' guitar breakdown bits

no boundaries being pushed that i can hear - even though ill be playing all morning (cheers)

possibly the only band that has a punk sensibility and pushes musical boundaries i can think of at the moment would be Melt Banana......but they dont go on about punk this and punk that....they just are what they are.....which to me is more punk that most punks.....if you see what I mean

and punk is not political....neither conservative nor socialist

political activists adopted punk for their own gain in the late seventies and laid claim to it in some kind of ivory tower mentality....people like crass etc....punk is/was open and individual and should be too fucking out there to be paraded under ANY single banner, be it social / political / whatever

imo*

*punk is/was also about being an individual

not that i would claim to be a punk, punk is dead

[Guest allsystemsfail]

A former Misfit too!

Anyway' date=' the way I've always understood punk is probably best described as a bizarre form of "late twentith century folk music", although by it's nature, not necessarily dated. It was about creating something from scratch, it, to me, is a mode and not a genre, although many people believe it is. Similar mindsets can be found in No Wave and even Garage, from how I understand it. The music might not be three-chord rock'n roll, but the DIY ethic is there.

It seems odd (and elitist) to say that music about self expression belongs to any one political wing, so for example, so for example, a member of the far right wished to commit his incoherent paranoid ramblings to a backing track he made in his room on his apple mac and pressed and distrubuted 200 copies by himself, surely there is an element of punk to that, although I personally would be put off by his political stance. I've only heard about them, but weren't screwdriver a DIY far-right band? And wouldn't bands with extreme far right views be FORCED into self publishing because the labels wouldn't touch 'em 'cos of their views (although having heard Tobey Kieth....)[/quote']

It is not at all elitist to believe punk committed to one political belief system. Leftist opinion is an integral component of punk. DIY is its chosen form of expression.

Skrewdriver a DIY far right band? While seeking an allegiance to punk, their fascist views made this impossible.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

You mean filthy hippies? Sheesh.

BTW' date=' you really shouldn't edit posts retrospectively, its weak.[/quote']

Weak? I did not alter my point, but only expanded upon it. I also drew your attention to this fact.

And filthy hippies? Such a comment again demonstrates a lack of understanding. But hey, I would expect little else from someone who believes homosexuality a defect.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

DIY is the breeding ground of socialist "all about the music" wank and shitheads. It's just another excuse to pay the band last or not at all. So-called DIY "punks" have been amongst the biggest bunch of cunts I've had the misfortune of dealing with.

Your understanding of the DIY punk community is extremely wanting. And maybe you can tell me who these individuals you had "the misfortune" in dealing with were.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

AHHAHAhahahahaha. Bob I know you don't understand' date=' but I don't hold it against you because well, can you really expect a member of a Busted tribute band to have any appreciation of the underground music scene? You do make me laugh with your jolly japes, you young whippersnapper.[/quote']

lol Nice point.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

your anti-diy punk but i saw you dancing to and sporting a swellbellys t-shirt! and you can make more money from a DIY gig than by playing Kef because the promoter is going to be more fair...and if the bands dont get paid it's cos of people like you' date=' who claim to be punk but don't support the scene[/quote']

*nods head in agreement*

[Guest allsystemsfail]

the 'underground' so called DIY punk scene is the opposite of punk

punk meant doing something new' date=' pushing boundaries - not rehashing riffs and pseudo angry lyrics that have been played a zillion times by a zillion bands in the last 30 years

you people are what punk is actually against

even though i like the sound of a lot of the current DIY 'so-called punk' (everything Dave Rowlands turns his hand too sounds great).......but even though the music is good Im able to differentiate between that and what was punk in the real sense...cos its certainly not original or pushing any boundaries and I doubt it intends to

unfortunately no matter how much we wish it did.......punk in the sense of originality does not exist anymore

DIY means 'organised' NOT 'punk'

i suppose this starting to be another 'what is punk' thread....and that is probably because the word punk has been bastardised and so many people are ready to use it to describe something that it's not[/quote']

The activities of the DIY punk community run contrary to punk? *smacks hand against forehead* So, maybe you can tell me what punk means to you.

Regarding the pushing of musical boundaries, then yes, I agree. The scene has become extremely stagnant musically, most outfits following only a standard formula. I put much of this down to the ruining influence of metal. Sure, there are still a few acts out there who are attempting to do something a little different - Submission Hold and Guts Pie Earshot are two, but these examples are few.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

tres good music but to be fair theres plenty of punk b sides from 76 and 77 that sound almost identical bar the modern sounding 'metallish' guitar breakdown bits

no boundaries being pushed that i can hear - even though ill be playing all morning (cheers)

possibly the only band that has a punk sensibility and pushes musical boundaries i can think of at the moment would be Melt Banana......but they dont go on about punk this and punk that....they just are what they are.....which to me is more punk that most punks.....if you see what I mean

and punk is not political....neither conservative nor socialist

political activists adopted punk for their own gain in the late seventies and laid claim to it in some kind of ivory tower mentality....people like crass etc....punk is/was open and individual and should be too fucking out there to be paraded under ANY single banner' date=' be it social / political / whatever

imo*

*punk is/was also about being an individual

not that i would claim to be a punk, punk is dead[/quote']

Punk not political? Leftist opinion has ALWAYS been central to its cause. You cannot consider punk without also considering its politics.

[Biz]

you are speaking shite

I have heard plenty stuff' date=' and you know what, its just my personal taste, I dont find lead or bass guitars interesting, I find the drumming in punk bands to be dull and simplistic, I find the vocals to be naive and poorly executed. Any bunch of teenage kids can do this stuff and most of it sounds like a 18 year old kid venting spleen. I don't give a fuck about "i'm fucking the system cuz my mum gave me a guitar for my birthday and i formed a band with my schoolmates and we play a gig in dr drakes". It's nonsense. It's kids living out adolescent fantasies. These people aren't artists or anarchists or anything else, they are just kids.[/quote']

Come and see my bands XS RELOCAT and 16 again then eat your words,no one could ever describe my drumming as dull and simplistic,lets see you try and play ANY song by The Ruts or The Damned,you wont have a fucken clue where to start .

And since when has it become a requirement to be an Anarchist?.Fuck Anarchy and all the free loading whining nobodys who think it is their right to steal or tap off folk .Grrrr simplistic MY ARSE.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

Come and see my bands XS RELOCAT and 16 again then eat your words' date='no one could ever describe my drumming as dull and simplistic,lets see you try and play ANY song by The Ruts or The Damned,you wont have a fucken clue where to start .

And since when has it become a requirement to be an Anarchist?.Fuck Anarchy and all the free loading whining nobodys who think it is their right to steal or tap off folk .Grrrr simplistic MY ARSE.[/quote']

Freeloading? Folks who think it their right to steal? What has this to do with anarchy?

And no, it is not a requirement that someone first be an anarchist to be considered punk. However, it is important to recognize punk's strong committment to leftist belief, and how important to the scene this is.

[betamax]

You cannot consider punk without also considering its politics.

you are missing the point of punk entirely if you start applying rules to it like that

political manipulators hi jacked punk in the late seventies as a way of gaining influence with the nations youth ....everyone from crass to billy fucking bragg

since the bandwagon has got steadily more away from the whole point

with people saying you must beleive in either this or that or sound like this or that to be punk....in other words its as bad for stereotyping and conforming as all the other shitty genres ....metal, emo etc

punk is not neccessarily anything to do with politics

its all about individualism

and its totally dead

other than the lazy warped mis used bastardised interpretation that gets used to define anything thats heavy and cooler than metal and faster than grunge

[Guest allsystemsfail]

you are missing the point of punk entirely if you start applying rules to it like that

political manipulators hi jacked punk in the late seventies as a way of gaining influence with the nations youth ....everyone from crass to billy fucking bragg

since the bandwagon has got steadily more away from the whole point

with people saying you must beleive in either this or that or sound like this or that to be punk....in other words its as bad for stereotyping and conforming as all the other shitty genres ....metal' date=' emo etc

punk is not neccessarily anything to do with politics

its all about individualism

and its totally dead

other than the lazy warped mis used bastardised interpretation that gets used to define anything thats heavy and cooler than metal and faster than grunge[/quote']

Those who sought to exploit punk's popularity in the 1970s so as to extend their influence, were not folks such as Crass, but the SWP via Rock Against Racism. Crass, and others like them, had no ulterior motive. Punk spoke to them, and so wanted only to be part of something they believed vital.

Punk rose out of a disaffection with the rock establishment - the rock excesses of folks such as ELP and Yes. However, politics also played a very important part. Just go check out material from folks such as Chelsea, The Clash, Crisis, Menace, Sham 69 etc for proof of this.

[Guest Stripey]

Come and see my bands XS RELOCAT and 16 again then eat your words' date='no one could ever describe my drumming as dull and simplistic,lets see you try and play ANY song by The Ruts or The Damned,you wont have a fucken clue where to start .

And since when has it become a requirement to be an Anarchist?.Fuck Anarchy and all the free loading whining nobodys who think it is their right to steal or tap off folk .Grrrr simplistic MY ARSE.[/quote']

Nah I can't abide 4 piece bands, they give me a headache. I've never heard of The Ruts or The Damned, not into punk atall. I wasn't dissing anyone's drumming, just the drumming in the genre itself (also rock) is pretty uninteresting to me.

[Biz]

ha ha ha

It's very refreshing to see someone who is open minded and interesting ,with valuable comments to make,so I'll get me coat then.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

Nah I can't abide 4 piece bands' date=' they give me a headache. I've never heard of The Ruts or The Damned, not into punk atall. I wasn't dissing anyone's drumming, just the drumming in the genre itself (also rock) is pretty uninteresting to me.[/quote']

You've never heard of The Ruts or The Damned, but are making sweeping statements about the punk community?

[Guest Stripey]

You've never heard of The Ruts or The Damned' date=' but are making sweeping statements about the punk community?[/quote']

Yup. I don't think it matters if I haven't heard of them.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

Yup. I don't think it matters if I haven't heard of them.

It proves, when it comes to punk related matters, you really have no knowledge at all.

Said outfits were two of the most popular 70s punk bands out there.

Now, why express views on a community you have no knowledge of?

[Guest Stripey]

It proves' date=' when it comes to punk related matters, you really have no knowledge at all.

Said outfits were two of the most popular 70s punk bands out there.

Now, why express views on a community you have no knowledge of?[/quote']

Do you get a kick out of being condescending and judgemental? They aren't very attractive qualities.

The fact I haven't heard of those two bands has no bearing atall on what I know about punk, I was even taught about it in school for crying out loud. Punk is dead.

[betamax]

Punk rose out of a disaffection with the rock establishment - the rock excesses of folks such as ELP and Yes. However' date=' politics also played a very important part. Just go check out material from folks such as Chelsea, The Clash, Crisis, Menace, Sham 69 etc for proof of this.[/quote']

The equivalent of the giant stagment pond of rock shite that was ELP, Yes, Pink Floyd, Led Zepellin etc for me is all the stuff that in 2004 sounds like its already been done a zillion times. Its the lazy, artless drivel thats everywhere. Including, unfortunately a lot (not all) of the so-called punk thats on offer. Its regressive, and shows no more kick back against the system or convention than Metal does. Which is appalling when you think about it. Punk is reduced to being simlpy another genre classification for the HMV. A huge shame, but true.

Im not saying punk shouldnt or should have politics in it, either...... im saying that true punk (if it exists) should have absolutely no set criteria, agenda or format....it should be out on its own....doing what the fuck it likes....politics or not politics....no convenient pigeonhole for the media or press to target easily

The bands you quoted are all second-wave London punks who in my opinion had missed the point of the purely drugs and art driven total drop-out punk, that originated in NY and Detroit in the early 70s (my type of punk if you like)........I also like all those bands you mention, but I dont see how their political agendas, made them punk in particular, they just happened to be punks with political agendas, but being political was not a pre-requisite for a punk band at all

i dont even think the pistols had a political agenda....they were just pissed off and very articulate with it

what i find strange is that some people decide they like punk music and then because of that, they automatically adopt the politics, just like someone picking a fashionable T shirt because the guy out of his favorite band wears one......then they all get together stylistically and culturally to create a collective identity versus keeping their own.....the un-punkness of it all

interesting to hear different angles/veiws anyway

[Guest allsystemsfail]

Do you get a kick out of being condescending and judgemental? They aren't very attractive qualities.

The fact I haven't heard of those two bands has no bearing atall on what I know about punk' date=' I was even taught about it in school for crying out loud. Punk is dead.[/quote']

I'm sorry, but it does indeed have a bearing on what you know about punk. I would have thought that quite obvious.

And your being taught in school about it?

[Guest Stripey]

I'm sorry' date=' but it does indeed have a bearing on what you know about punk. I would have thought that quite obvious.

And your being taught in school about it?[/quote']

Pull your head in mate. I was taught about it in school over 10 years ago. You don't have to know the names of every single band to be able to understand what it was all about.