Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 I always thought the Mrs was sexual but they just didn't show any of it. Haven't seen it for years right enough. You can get it on DVD now' date=' I think it was only shown on telly once as part of a "banned" season.[/quote']This is the earlier BBC version you can get on DVD now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betamax Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 That film reminded me of going to school in Middlesbrough, we had more solvent and rape but less snooker based ultra violence thankfully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willum Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 This is the earlier BBC version you can get on DVD now?I saw both versions come in a special editon box in Virgin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 I saw both versions come in a special editon box in Virgin.With the obligatory extras, trailer, interviews etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marillionboy Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 The BBC version made for Play for Today in 1977 was shown on BBC2 in 1991 not as part of a banned season but as a tribute to Alan Clarke after he died. Its in some ways much more disturbing than the film as its in a nastier location (check out the punishment block!) and the kids are all two years younger: seeing them at 17 adds to the vulnerability. And the missus is unquestionably a gay relationship for Carlin, it was removed from the film version at Ray Winstone's request, something he now totally regrets. The writer and director felt the film version was "a fuck up." I thinknthey both have strengths: the film's main virtue is better acting: Clarke replaced any weak links. I think Archer in the film is much better, and the kid who gets raped is an incredibly perfomance. The snooker balls scene is much nastier in the tv onew, but the rape is much more understated. There are a few extra incidents in the tv one mainly involving bullying of the new recruits. It was indeed based on research, about 80 interviews with ex Borstal inmates. The best account of the making of the film is in Richard Kelly's book on Alan Clarke. I wrote a piece about Scum for a mag some years back: its a masterpiece and the sort of television that simply doesn't get made any more, and almost didn't get made then: in fact it got made they just wouldn't show it!And yes the box set has loads of extras..commentaries, trailers, interviews, the lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 The BBC version made for Play for Today in 1977 was shown on BBC2 in 1991 not as part of a banned season but as a tribute to Alan Clarke after he died. Its in some ways much more disturbing than the film as its in a nastier location (check out the punishment block!) and the kids are all two years younger: seeing them at 17 adds to the vulnerability. And the missus is unquestionably a gay relationship for Carlin' date=' it was removed from the film version at Ray Winstone's request, something he now totally regrets. The writer and director felt the film version was "a fuck up." I thinknthey both have strengths: the film's main virtue is better acting: Clarke replaced any weak links. I think Archer in the film is much better, and the kid who gets raped is an incredibly perfomance. The snooker balls scene is much nastier in the tv onew, but the rape is much more understated. There are a few extra incidents in the tv one mainly involving bullying of the new recruits. It was indeed based on research, about 80 interviews with ex Borstal inmates. The best account of the making of the film is in Richard Kelly's book on Alan Clarke. I wrote a piece about Scum for a mag some years back: its a masterpiece and the sort of television that simply doesn't get made any more, and almost didn't get made then: in fact it got made they just wouldn't show it!And yes the box set has loads of extras..commentaries, trailers, interviews, the lot![/quote']Lovely, thanks for that! One thing, my VHS of "Scum" has an interview with the producer I think, not Alan Clarke anyway, and he clearly said that the "missus" thing was non-sexual. I clearly remember Carlin's line "Look, I'm no poof, right, but you can be my missus". Davis tried to tell him about the rape, but couldn't get the words out, so Carlin went back to reading his porno. This is how I remember it, anyway. I'm pretty sure the "missus" thing was just favours, i.e. tidy the cell, get Carlin's backing, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marillionboy Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 That will be Roy Minton, but what he said was Carlin is not gay, "I'm no poof alright!" but in prison he becamew a prison poof,. its the public school mentality. Similarly you can note that the guy James who rapes Davis actually has a visit from his girlfriend earlier in the film.There was actually a scene shot for the film where the misses puts his hand down Carlin's trousers as they cuddle but it was cut.In the conversation with the misses he says "I've neevr done it before" and Carlin says "neither of I." A missus was a younger boy you shagged. Honestly, Carlin does have a sexual relationship with him. Minton was just a bit garbled on that interview, as he often is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 I'll take your word for it, it's been so long since I saw the BBC version. There's only one thing for it, get this lovely 2-disc set and some humble pie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marillionboy Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 There's a silver tin and a cardboard box version of the 2 disc set: take your pick! I think Fopp has about the best deal on it.I've got alot of Clarke's rare tv stuff from the Play for Today era, its all manner of styles but always typified by brilliant acting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DustyDeviada Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 In the conversation with the misses he says "I've neevr done it before" and Carlin says "neither of I." A missus was a younger boy you shagged. Honestly' date=' Carlin does have a sexual relationship with him. Minton was just a bit garbled on that interview, as he often is.[/quote']That was the impression I got as well. Is there a commentary on the new DVDs, might clear up some of these questions?Edit: 11.99 from cdwowhttp://www12.cd-wow.com/detail_results_2.php?product_code=17258&subcat=region2Also confirms that there is a commentary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 There's a silver tin and a cardboard box version of the 2 disc set: take your pick! I think Fopp has about the best deal on it.I've got alot of Clarke's rare tv stuff from the Play for Today era' date=' its all manner of styles but always typified by brilliant acting.[/quote']Thanks once again! By the way, are you also a fan of Mike Leigh's work? "Meantime" is a great film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marillionboy Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 I'm not a huge fan of Leigh actually, the only piece of his I really like is Hard Labour, his first Play for Today, before he got indulgent. I think Meantime has its moments but it plays like an actor's workshop and is well too long... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluesxman Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 I bought the 2 disc set because I wanted to see the original TV version, it's better in a lot of ways but weird seeing a different actor play Archer after seeing the film version so many times. Scum was one of the films me and my mates used to get on video whenever someones folks were out for the night along with Quadrophenia, Mad Max 2, Great Rock n Roll Swindle, The Warriors and The Wanderers. Just seemed to get the same ones all the time!For anyone who liked Scum, Alan Clarkes other films Made in Britain and The Firm are also quality. Made In Britain is Tim Roth's debut as a teenage skinhead with The Exploited's UK82 as the theme song and is in FOPP for fiver on DVD just now. The Firm has Gary Oldman as a football hooly and although the scenes of his gang chanting cringeworthy footy shite are very dated, it is still good and also available for about a fiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marillionboy Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 I actually think its a shame Clarke's remembered mainly for those three films as I think most of his work post-Scum was bollocks. I think The Firm is a lousy piece, showing how bad a state tv drama was in ten years on from Scum. I think Gary Oldman is terrific but that was a terribly showy performance, not at all like the naturalism Clarke was so good at getting from actors. The whole yuppie-thug thing I thought was a pretty naive view of soccer violence (ID was much better) and the violence is not nearly ugly and clumsy enough, although the final scene is excellent.Made in Britain is terrific, especially that central scene with Geoffrey Hutchings' tour-de-force monologue with the blackboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluesxman Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 violence is not nearly ugly and clumsy enough' date=' although the final scene is excellent.[/quote']Gotta disagree with that, the fight scene in the garage looks pretty realistic to me, guys stuck on the ground and deperately kicking out fending people off. ID is alright but pretty laughable storyline really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marillionboy Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Yes the storyline is all wrong:ID would have been near perfect if it had just been about a bloke who had got sucked in through his surroundings, not because he was an undercover copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluesxman Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Never mind, we can look forward to Frodo Baggins kicking peoples heads in in Green Street - along with the young lad who got rimmed in Queer As Folk - casting agent = genius for that film! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marillionboy Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 I think all Alan Clarke fans should join me for the Absinte tasting in The Moorings in a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Made in Britain is terrific' date=' especially that central scene with Geoffrey Hutchings' tour-de-force monologue with the blackboard.[/quote']"So that's one, two, three FOUR chances you've 'ad, and one, two three, four times, you've messed 'up". That scene is great, also look out for "James", the "Scum" rapist, restraining Trevor beforehand. Great film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marillionboy Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Yes Sean's great. "Oh I see...British bulldog one-two-three""I'm more British than you are fuckface."Sean Chapman did a great turn in another Clarke film too, Contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Yes Sean's great. "Oh I see...British bulldog one-two-three""I'm more British than you are fuckface."Sean Chapman did a great turn in another Clarke film too' date=' Contact.[/quote']Once again, added to the notebook! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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