spellchecker

excellent, thanks. i'll see if i can obtain that. what distribution of linux do you usually use? i use gentoo, and having tried redhat before for audio, i can tell you that gentoo completely takes the hassle out of getting most of the audio stuff to work, straight out of the box. however, there are now music/video specific distributions, e.g. planet ccrma and agnula.

yeah, i thought everything was really shit until i spent a lot of time and lost patience working it all out. it's certainly not easy, by a long shot; you also have to move away from the paradigm of one-app-for-all-things. Ardour is really a great piece of software, and the latest version is the most stable by far. it's approaching version 1.0. Hydrogen is the drum machine i use, the two best drumkits for me are the synth electro ones and one of the hip hop kits, however, it now takes midi input for drumkits, so if you have a soundfont that has a kit you like, you can pull it from that i think. I'm using version 0.8.2 of hydrogen.

i'll post a sample of something i've managed to do with linux later on if i can.

do you know of a vst that can do amp simulation for guitars, free or otherwise?

tremolo pedals apply a sort of wavering effect to the signal. it think it basically cuts the signal at the frequency you specify, by the amount (depth) you specify. i think "how soon is now" by the smiths uses a tremolo effect on the guitar. it's actually a really nice effect, i think i have it on that old EH pedal i have. but nowadays it is widely available in plugins, etc.

Have you got any vst capable stuff working? I am a linux head' date=' and the only reason I run windows on one of my machines is because I cant find a decent vst host for linux...and I can't live without my vst heheh[/quote']

personally i haven't, but there's some software (using WINE) to hook the VSTs into the LADSPA plugin system. i don't know how well it works, but the code has been around for a couple of years so i will check it out and let you know. it's called vstserver or something. it has mostly been tested with ardour i think. is there a freeverb vst or something i can download to test against?

are you doing music on linux already? have you ever had any luck with muse or rosegarden? i desperately want muse to work, and i know it must for some people, but for the life of me i can't get any noise out of the bastard, nor a click track in either of them. and i can't find any metronomes that support JACK. speaking of jack, it's the mutt's nuts, truly. i just loaded up a rhodes keyboard sample, took it out through the soundcard and through a wah wah pedal, then back into ardour to record! it's amazing!

edit: http://www.djcj.org/LAU/ladspavst/

if you are just wanting it for recording, and not for live performance, then any old midi controller will do. midi controllers can be had second hand on ebay for much cheapness. you will need a midi interface to stick it into your computer too, they can be had for around 40-50 quid. then the world is your oyster. you will need some software to generate the sounds for the controller, but that can be had for free easily (legally or otherwise).

i use linux for all my audio stuff now, and have found some great softsynths. some are real twiddly nob basically program it yourself type of things (with lots of honestly good sounding presets), others simply load sf2 files, which are in plentiful supply on the internet (sf2 files provide instrument sounds), e.g. at sf2midi.com. in case anyone will ever be interested, here's some linux software i've found really useful in the last couple of weeks for recording with my midi stuff:

zynaddsubfx (soft synth/synth generator)

fluidsynth (soft synth)

qsynth (UI for above softsynth)

ardour (multi track HDR system - quite pro tools like)

hydrogen (great drum machine)

qjackctl

i've finally managed to get audio stuff working properly on linux, hopefully i'll get a chance to document some of it soon so that others can benefit. almost all of the software on linux is free, which is obviously an advantage, but some of the software actually works a lot better too. much of it is still stabilising though.

pap or tap?

infact, it's probably better if you borrow it, because i don't have windows installed, which the firmware upgrade program probably requires.

i have one you can come round to use if you like. it's a midisport 2x2.

Originally posted by Ben Quik:

boring.......

I know! That's exactly what I was thinking! How could a thread like this get to be 3 pages long!?! That band should just start a big media war in the press against Godsmack, like that one between Goldie and Keith Flint a few years back. It would sound like there were to be a colossal battle between the two bands, only for them to make up and be best friends at the wanKerrang awards, and then go on to have high tea at the Savoy.

Originally posted by Monk Rocker:

They got the dimensions wrong with the new Stonehenge. It's 180ft high, and hence can't fit in the venue.

The venue was irrelevant, apparently. I just got this in from the Doc & Marty:

Press & Journal, 14th June

Spinal Pap raise the forest floor at Crathes Castle...

That solved the stonehenge problem, anyway.

hmm, that no quarter are actually quite a good tribute band too. if you like to hear lots of physical graffiti era stuff, they're definitely worth going to see.

i wonder if the pap will have all the usual stage props.

ace fun!

the pc's look really cool. the setup is a basic sb live that has the soundfonts hardwired onto the soundcard, with a midi controller keyboard hooked up to it.

we are using cubasis version something or other, it's like a cut down version of cubase or something.

we got a brief description of what midi is and what it is used for, some instruction on the terminology used in cubasis like having different tracks (i.e. like any other multitracking program), different channels (channels have different midi patches, i.e. piano, harpsichord, gunshot, tweety birdy), and how to copy and paste bits of the track, etc.

we were basically let loose to create tunes on the computers for around an hour or something. i created a theme tune ideal for a children's bbc cartoon involving pets flying in hot air balloons during the french revolution etc. etc.

oh yeah and channel 10 is special, it's for drums, so that if you send your midi file to someone else, it will always play some sort of drum track, even if the midi patches are different.

Originally posted by ghost:

Everyone going on Tues?

skiver

yeah, i really liked the whole band setup, it sounded great. the drummer was very loud. very very loud. my ears are sore. i don't think he played "eminem is gay" tonight, unless i didn't notice... it's funny though. ironic that the turnout was better for chris tt than it was for jimbob!

Originally posted by DR DRAKE:

again....tsk tsk!! how was your hangover the day after jim bob?! do you remember much?!

sharon

i was really ill. i woke up around 9am specifically to vomit then shuffled back to bed where i remained until about lunchtime. we had a good band practice that day though.

christ, i was wasted that night. i've some good photos of it though. one spectacular one of gary numan.

yeah, chris tt is a star, i'm dead interested to see what he's like with the full live band. should be down a bit later on, if i can just stop being hungover.

Originally posted by Hog:

Havent heard them!!! Would I like them? album recommendations?

Hog, I reckon you would love them. Get the self-titled first album before anything else. In fact, I actually did think of Spike Pile Driver during the gig, yourselves and fantomas are at times in the same vein.

you have to acknowledge the progression between the albums, and the fact that the progression was intertwined between mike's own experiences in his other bands at the times. after all, there was a good 9 years between the self titled and california. have any of us had 9 years between writing songs yet to notice the difference in our own writing? never mind 7 studio albums amongst them.

personally i love the first mr bungle album. songs like "slowing growing deaf", "my ass is on fire", "carousel" and "love is a fist" are truly classics. if profanity or juvenility is a weakness then i can see the digression for you. but for me, the band shows on that album other strengths that dictate where mr. bungle didn't tell you they were going to go. it's one red herring after another.

in that album i hear rock, metal, ska, rap, punk and ballad all in a production i still don't find dated, unlike the real thing. it's certainly not to be liked by all, but it's certainly not without merit. by any means whatsoever.

besides, the bass work on the first mr. bungle album is spectacular. bleh.

it was fucking great, it was.

support 1 was kid606, some 24 year old guy that is also on ipecac. sounded interesting from the write up bio on the ipecac site, but was less interesting to watch and listen too. reminded me a bit of atari teenage riot. electro techno jungle babble came to mind. just one guy and his laptops, a lot of the audience liked it a lot, so fair play.

support 2 was some 14 piece woodwind/string/brass band from belgium, that sounded ... well, it's hard to describe. at times they were like the cantina bar band from tatooine. they were quite eclectic but well orchestrated and were remnant at times of mr bungle's first and last albums. they had an accordion player that was a spitting image of dave bradley. some great and interesting vocals too. i had though that they might actually be there to play some of the backing music for fantmas but alas it was not so. really enjoyable actually, must try and find out what they were called.

the anticipation in the air when fantmas came on was pretty electric. mike patton had walked past loads of us waiting in the queue, and didn't look particularly friendly or happy, so I was a little unsure of what the performance was going to be like, or what his reaction to the audience would be like.

if you didn't know any fantmas material and you had witnessed the gig, you probably would have thought of the gig more as a set or performance, more than a setlist being played. however, they did infact play a lot of material of the first album and also director's cut. the best way to describe the set is that it was a performance of choice parts of delirium cordia that lasted for around 90 minutes, interspliced very smoothly and technically with songs from the first album and director's cut.

one of the things that amazed me from the start was that they had nobody else helping out with instrumentation. mike did use a lot of samples, mostly for delirium cordia. it consisted mainly of multi-vocal parts or sound effects like intense low frequency sound or atmospheric wind noises.

something else that can't be escaped is the talent of all the musicians playing in the band. i have never, ever seen anyone play in the way that dave lombardo does. it was intense and jaw-droppingly attention grabbing. i've seen danny carey from tool play and he is a great drummer, but more in a technical way. the ferocity and precision of dave lombardo really astounded me. he actually performed live a great quantity of the percussive sounds that are heard on delirium cordia. he had all these weird cymbals that span round and made weird noises almost like wind chimes. buzz osborne and trevor dunn were really good too, they certainly kept pace with all that was going on and added a lot of atmosphere, but really for me, the show focused on dave lombardo and mike patton, just because they put in such amazing performances.

i've a lot of admiration for mike patton, because i think he's a great composer and song writer, and obviously is a gifted singer. i also like ipecac and the way they do things. for example, there must have been around 1500-2000 people at the gig (not sure, it was the astoria and it was packed.. but i don't know the capacity). they could have made a killing on merchandise, etc. Yet, t-shirts were only 10 quid, and you could get a jacket for 20 quid. three years ago, i was at a fear factory gig where they were selling the same jackets for 40 quid, albeit with a different band logo! anyway, watching mike patton live is a memory that i will hold for a long time... the way the band was positioned onstage was actually quite insular, dave lombardo and mike patton were facing each other from opposite sides of the stage, though I think that was because of the difficult task of orchestrating delirium cordia's material. they certainly pulled it off anyway. mike would often alternate between 3 or 4 different microphones seemlessly... the set was obviously well rehearsed, yet, at the same time, the way that he went crazy and lost it for some of the first album material made you think it was like the first time he'd got to perform his favourite song in the world. a lot of the fantomas vocals sound like they would be really hard to reproduce live, yet he never quivered, quibbled, wavered or anything throughout the performance.

up until about 40 minutes into the set, none of the band had actually said anything to the audience, but by this time you could tell that the band had warmed to the crowd and that they had become comfortable with their surroundings. the first words mike patton uttered to crowd were in a half-a-second gap between pages from the first album, saying simply

aw'wight guvnor

from that moment on, it was like you couldn't shut him up. the running joke for the night began at that point: at the astoria, immediately after the fantmas gig, Emma Bunton was going to be singing for the G.A.Y. clubnight that runs at the Astoria on saturdays. In between songs were littered references to 'shit spice' as she became affectionately known. i guess you had to be there, but it was nice to see mike interacting with the crowd and generally just having a laugh.

the highlight of the hilarity was probably a couple of songs from the end when mike was introducing the band, and described buzz osborne as the notorious F-A-G. at this point the light crew got in on the joke and lit the huge 30ft "G.A.Y." lights at the back of the stage.

definitely one of the best gigs i've been to.

christ, millions, but off the top of my head:

blackbox - ride on time

rozalla - everybody's free

dj otzi - hey baby

2 unlimited - no limits

christina aguilera - beautiful

if you are looking for a clicky sound, there are other ways you can help yourself to get there. you can buy hard plastic things that you can stick on your kick drum skin (the thing that usually acts as a protector for the skin from the beater). our drummer had one, i can't remember if he still has it... it was a double sized one for two beaters anyway. in combination with his hard faced beaters (those white looking tama ones) it made a nice clicky sound, if you like nice clicky sounds that is. how much of that sound came through when mic'ed up to a desk though, i couldn't answer.

iain, do you remember the thing i'm talking about? scott usually has it taped on with masking tape i think. i can't think of what they are called or how better to describe them.

also, if buying midi triggers, make sure either the pads or the system you hook them up to have a way to change the threshold and sensitivity of the pads, and that you know how to use them. this is important so that your triggers don't start playing when ever you hit your floor toms or anything else that makes a big fuck off vibration. we had problems recently with a roland trigger pad that kept triggering itself when any toms or cymbals were hit, though if you are using some sort of skin mounted/contact pad i don't suppose that sort of problem would be as much of an issue.

i suppose it depends on what you want to do. i used to do that on a PII-300 for ages, but gradually as i started doing more and more complex stuff it would get to a point where i could never play anything back in realtime because it had to keep stopping and starting to read from the disk. the only way i could listen to stuff was to mix it down to a combined wav file, which isn't much good if you want to really tweak volume, pan, effects automations.

i never usually loop guitars, but when getting first ideas down, i do that a lot for drums and bass. ian, what do you use for multi-tracking? is it adobe audition/cool edit?

heard the last front line assembly album and found it really boring. recently heard the first ohgr album and it was quite good. i also usually find ministry album unlistenable but i heard their last one and found it really palettable. new skinny puppy album is supposed to be really good.

i don't know if the young gods are classed as industrial, to me they are. they are one of my favourite industrial bands. tv sky and only heaven in particular are two really great albums.

Originally posted by Tav:

I can now see what people like paying 500 and getting a 10track with hard drive and CD writer built in. A lot less hassle yet not as much versatility/power as a PC I guess.

yeah, that's a good point. we once used a mackie 24 track hard disk recorder, and it was so reliable, didn't have to worry about what sound card it was using, what software it was running, whether it was going to run out of steam, etc. however, they do cost a lot of money. if you have enough patience, computing knowledge and audio knowledge, you can create a setup that will equal and better any such hard disk recorders.

i haven't gone to that point yet, which is my current excuse for being so lazy with the songwriting.

edit: and ditto what keilan says about tempo, it'll save you a lot of hassle in the long run. same as making sure the first guitar you lay down is in tune.

Originally posted by Tav:

I just wanted to know really if/how a program can record all the inputs of a multi-input card to sperate tracks within and usually how many simultaneous tracks can your record with a PC.

Most programs worth their salt can do this. The way this is usually done is that tracks in your software application have 'recordable' flags that can be toggled. so for example, say you had 4 tracks in your software application:

1. Guitar

2. Drums

3. Bass

4. Vocals

It would probably be the case by default (but is typically alterable) that each track would take the corresponding input from the soundcard, i.e. the guitar track would record from input 1 on the soundcard, vocals would record from input 4 on the soundcard, etc.

Anyway, say you and your friend want to record bass and guitar at the same time, overwriting whatever you already had in the software application (i'm assuming just for the sake of argument that you had already recorded drums and vocals into their respective tracks), this is how it would probably be done:

* toggle the recordable flags on tracks 1 & 3 (guitar & bass)

* click the record (or sometimes record and then play) button in the application

* start playing your instruments.

The typical limit of how many simultaneous tracks you can record on your computer can be surmised by a few different factors:

1. The number of inputs on your soundcard

2. The number of simultaneous channels the software application is able to record

3. The performance capability of your computer

The first factor is probably the first you will encounter, as multi-io cards are typically expensive, and more expensive the more inputs and outputs that you get with it.

The second tends not to be an issue these days, however the third really is. Latency is a big problem with computers (latency being the delay between the analogue signal reaching the soundcard's a2d converters and your computer being able to do something with it, be that commit it to disk, or play it back through the soundcard). As a general rule of thumb, I don't think you'd want anything less than 7200rpm hard drives. Good drivers are also critical for good multi track recording on computers, as they have a huge effect on the latency value that you will get (e.g. badly written drivers produce high latency). If you are going to have lots of realtime effects (on the computer, not outboard effects) going as well, then you'd probably want a fairly high spec processor with good FP performance.