-matthEw-

I think I nearly shat myself when I heard about this ...From excitement of course

exactly every point there is spot on.

What grinds me is what good will it do replacing jimmy this close to the end of the season? Do people really think McGee or Levin would drop their chase for europe to come to aberdeen? I very much doubt either would have the slightest interest in managing aberdeen at any point, especially when they see the way the fans treat JC. Three bad results in the cups and everyone wants to hang the guy, nevermind the league finishes every year, and dont give me that shite about preferring a cup run over a league place, fans would very quickly turn if the league results were rubbish even if we did well in both cups. The league is what is important not two diddy cups that mean very little now anyway.

Levein is a no-no. Too much of a sideways step.

McGhee was inches away from boarding a plane to meet with Romanov to finalise his appointment. He's publically said it was only the madness of Romanov that stopped him moving. So given that Aberdeen are roughly the same stature as Hearts, I'd say he would. Plus the undoubted emotional pull we'd have over him. Unless he sees himself as a successor at Parkhead within the next 2 seasons (which I think he'd be foolish to do) then I reckon he'd go for it.

And as someone else replied, you have no idea who'd apply. I still think Aberdeen is a pretty big pull for any manager wanting to make a name for himself or established managers looking for a step-up. I'd imagine we can compete in managers wages with the SPL and half the Championship. Fuck, you had Neil Warnock touting himself for the Caley job last time round!...he'd be utterly sensational

OK, a few points that you're going to have to flesh out a bit more:

1) Fantastic football under Ebbe

Is this the same fantastic football that saw us routinely murdered by the OF and rock bottom of the league for nearly 3 months? If you forget about the 2 cup finals, JC's record is streets ahead of Ebbes.....90 wins vs 68 losses (as of mid-Jan), compared to 54 wins and 68 losses for Ebbe. At the time, Alex Miller apart, Ebbe's results were the worst since the 1950s.

2) JC benefited from Pele's squad

That'll be the squad that Pele could hardly buy a win with? 23 wins vs 32 losses. Guess that means that JC must have turned things round. But let's not give him any praise for that.

3) JC has signed established SPL players, that didn't require him to cast the net

That's a good thing isn't it? Better to sign solid pros, who you know can handle the pace of our game. I think JC signings have been excellent, for the most part.

4) Non-SPL stars have been shite

What about Aluko, McDonald, Vidal, Smith. I think they've been quite good.

5) Treading water for next 2 years if we don't get shot of JC

Give me one shred of evidence that we won't tread water if we do get rid of him? Or go backwards? Haven't you heard, there's a recession on. Football in Scotland is going to feel the pinch over the coming months, and it is just totally unrealistic to expect that a new manager will be able to make sweeping changes.

6) Shoestring budget

We can split hairs all day long about who has had the most money, but ultimately neither Pele or JC have had much. JC has had to deal almost exclusively in the free transfers market, or in loan players.....so please don't try and imply that he's had a fortune to spend. He just hasn't.

7) Utter contempt for the fans

Evidence? Every time I hear JC interviewed, I only hear him praising our support. He supports our right to complain when things are going wrong. He might not be as media-friendly as say, Ebbe, but I think he knows fine how good the fans are....he certainly says as much.

This whole debate has come about because of our Cup form. But our league form over a number of years has been pretty decent, and given that this is our bread and butter, I think JC deserves a bit more praise than he's getting. Granted, it's not always scintillating stuff, but he's been far more consistent than any of his recent predecessors. Personally, I'd rather have us challenging for Europe via the league every year, than our league form being all over the place, and having the odd good cup run.

I'm confident that our Cup form will come good eventually, but sacking a manager with a good record will not help us....especially given the likelihood of us getting a decent replacement.

1. Trust me, I'm not a great Ebbe lover, and I hate the way losing games become almost a 'fun' thing amongst our support during his reign. But, and maybe this is because I had just started going to games, but I loved watching us play. Whilst I would pick league position over being entertained any day, it is a lot easier to say that when your not inside Pittodrie watching a dull, dull 90 minutes after giving up the best part of 25...every.other.week.

2. Again, I made my stance on Paterson pretty clear, he was hopeless. But, personally, I've never seen any single manager as unlucky with injuries. Its normally a poor excuse but one look at the sides Paterson was forced to field and you'll see this was an exception. Plus the aforementioned budget slashing. JC HAS had a fortune to spend in comparison(4th largest budget in Scotland, equivalent to our size). Paterson had to seriously downsize then maintain a squad under a wage cap imposed by Milne. And stop putting words in my mouth to suit your argument, I have plenty of praise for Jimmy, especially in his first season. Whilst the Paterson era was one to forget, for me it represents something we simply had to go through in order to come out the other side. Which to be fair, we have.

3. Yes signing established SPL players is a good thing, and one I hope to see continue. But at the end of the day, Paterson just could not have signed those players with the budget he had. No way. I think the wage cap was rumoured to be something like 3,000 a week, of which we could afford to pay only 1 or 2 players. Its generally accepted that the wage structure that came in when Willie came in allowed ou top earners 5,000 a week.

It doesn't require any real talent to see that Scott Severin is out of contract with his bridges burnt at Hearts and no offers from England that he'd be a corker of a signing. Whilst I like the fact we can now sign players of that supposed calibre, I would stop before giving Jimmy any real credit for it.

4. McDonald is one of my favourite players, but in my mind again he's hardly an 'off the radar' type player - although one personally that I'd forgotten about and hadn't heard of for a few years so credit to JC for that one. Smith I included in my established SPL list - a 1st team regular in one of the most successful Celtic sides who'd only been away for 2 years. Again, I think most managers in Scotland would've been aware of Smith's desire to return to Scotland, only Jimmy had the wages. Aluko was handed to us on a plate by Eric Black. And Vidal looked pretty nifty on the ball and could find a pass so natural has no place in a Calderwood Dons team and is dumped for Ricky Foster. o_O

I'm not giving Jimmy NO credit for these signings. He clearly had his part to play. But I see no evidence that any other manager even remotely worth his salt couldn't have made them.

5. Treading water comment - I say this because after Jimmy's arrival we have been at the exact same stage (often worse) that his 1st season. We've been treading water for 4 years since he came. So where as I have no shred of evidence to support that we will be for the next 2 years, I think its logical to see we will be. The fact that I have no faith in him in the transfer market OR his ability to motiviate players or learn from his own mistakes backs this up. We may go backwards you are right. But equally we may push on and cement 3rd like Hearts did for long periods. I think we've got the 3rd best squad in the league, and whilst Hearts and United fans will dispute that, I think all thats needed is the ability to stick with 4-4-2.

As a side note, in the period we went from bottom of the league to 3rd in the league look at our formations. Perhaps incidently, but there was a prominent member of afc-chat met with Calderwood whilst we were at bottom of the table in an effort to improve club/fan relations. This guy told Calderwood his main gripe was the changing of formations//tactics/players out of position etc. Obviously its unknown whether Calderwood took this onboard but during that period we played 4-4-2 every game. Same players barring injury or suspension. Players came back from injury and maybe slotted in, but nothing major. I think Aluko up front and Mackie on the wing was the weirdest thing I seen in this time (which isn't that weird by JC's standards and makes a lot of sense). We won something like 10 out of 12 games and got 6 in a row at home (including Celtic). Well done Calderwood you deserve credit there. BUT then he plays a strange variation of 4-5-1 against Rangers and then proceeds to fuck about with the team and its selection in the next games to present day, of which the only game we've won is scraping past an injury plagued Hamilton. And that to me is Calderwood in a nutshell.

6. Its not really splitting hair. Calderwood has a huge budget over Paterson. The fact that Calderwood has a budget shows an advantage over his predecessor! In terms of the SPL he DOES have a lot. The 4th highest in the SPL, and given Hearts tend to spunk a fair share of theirs on dodgy Lithuanians and guys we never see really there can be no excuses for Calderwood under-achieving. Whilst I don't think he has under-achieved per se I'd rather have a manager who over achieved (like McGhee has done with Motherwell) that does the bare minimum (back to the treading water point)

7. Hmm personally I'll disagree. How many times have you heard about our 'unrealistic' thought we should be winning the league. (how many Dons fans do you know think anything of the sort? I know zero). He is constantly bemoaning the unrealistic expectations. He had a go at Aberdonians within weeks of taking the post. He may say the fans have a right to show their feelings, but its almost always followed with a 'but' that says we're not helping to do so. The digs in the press about booing Foster/Mackie etc. No I'm not a boo-er, but if you've tried watching those 2 play for a team you care immensely about over the course of seasons and seasons, I can fully understand why people do.

If you need any evidence of the fact he hates us, I point you to the fact he recently gave Mackie a 3 year deal. Thats pure, pure hate there. I will find a few articles with choice quotes that show what I'm getting at another time, when its not 12.45am.

It hasn't came about because of our cup form at all. The tide has been turning against JC for 2 years. The cup thing has merely enhanced. As a regular at Pittodrie I've been resenting his style of play for seasons now. And whilst you can accept that if you succeed (which in this league is 3rd place), its hard to otherwise. I honestly believe we are the worst team to watch in the whole league. But if Calderwood could walk us into third he'd have no qualms. Anything less though, and naturally questions being asked. Especially when anytime I've seen us actually get the ball on the deck and moved it around we've absolutely hammered the opposition. The fact I can count the times we've done that in Calderwood's tenure on 1 hand is disgraceful though.

From the outside looking in (I'm a Celtic "fan", but having lived close to Pittodrie for years, attended quite a lot of Aberdeen matches in the last couple of years), I always say to the JC haters that he's been the best and most successful manager you've had since Fergie.

Firstly - Wrong. Secondly, regarding having a 'right' to go through against lower-league opposition, its the simple laws of football. You SHOULD be beating a team a league below you based on all the reasons that mean you are a league above them (budget, players ability etc etc). Obviously what makes football great is that upsets happen fairly regularly. But thats Calderwood lost against Queens Park (3rd division at the time!), QOTS, and Dunfermline. And Milner, if you've noticed, none of these teams were lucky, they all fully deserved to come away with a victory. There is only one acceptable way to go out to a lower-league team and that is to batter them for the 90 minutes (or in this case, 220 minutes) and by the miracles of football see them snatch a goal. In the most recent case we were probably the 2nd best side for all but 15 minutes of the 2 games and that is what is completely unacceptable about those results.

Thirdly, whilst Calderwood's achieved top 6 every year, the failings of other managers shouldn't come into it. And its worth baring in mind we played some fantastic football under Ebbe, in a time when the league was arguably at its strongest since the late 80s/very early 90s. Plus, whilst Paterson was an all-round disaster, he did have the task of seriously slashing the budget and players wages so was always operating with one hand tied behind his back. All this talk of Calderwood doing it on a shoe-string are ridiculous, as soon as Willie Miller came in he scrapped the wage caps imposed on Paterson's team. Can you imagine Pele being able to spend 100k on Tommy Wright? For all his faults, and there was many of them, Calderwood seriously beneffited from the team he put together. Blooding in Zander, making Anderson captain and arguably into the top player he became, Hart on a freebie, Heikennen on a freebie, Booth had a largely successful return when not injured. Now that Aberdeen team really was put together on a shoe-string budget, Calderwood has had a fortune in comparison.

Whilst Calderwood has made some terrific signings (Severin initially, Nicholson, Lovell at the time, Smith, Miller, Kerr) - these are all established SPL players, and didn't exactly require casting the net and cherry picking unknowns from around the globe. Also, when each of those players wanted to leave their club, if they wanted to stay in Scotland, there is only real two clubs could've offered a pay-rise, on the basis none of the OF are interested, or in Seve and Millers case, equal pay and that in my opinion is Hearts and Aberdeen. Each time the SPL hasn't had established 'stars' going for free Calderwood has signed utter, utter dross (with the exception of Touzani, who he then refused to play for 2 years ) Kristjansen, Mixu's brothers, Blaha, Dahl, Baas, Bus, Young, Wright.

I haven't been a Calderwood hater for long, but to me it was as clear as day that he should've left at the end of his contract last season. 4 years here and I think he could've looked back and said he'd done a good job, and I think the fans would have all been in agreeance. He has steady'd the ship, but its got to the point where we'll just be treading water for the next 2 and a half years with him. Top 6, but never third unless Hearts, Hibs and United similtaneously have a terrible season. Regular victories over the gruesome twosome, but similarly limp wristed showings in games against Hamilton, Killie, lower-league cup games. But this 3 year contract we've given him, there's no way it won't end in tears for both parties.

There is more reasons why I think he should go. The utter contempt he holds the fans in is slowly becoming a bigger reason with each article he publishes in his Weegie paper colulm. Maybe I should grow thicker skin, but I really don't like being insulted and lied to weekly by our manager.

Is this going to be every Monday night? Seems a good platform.

And in terms of renting systems like LoveFilm are far cheaper and ultimately superior. Poor old Blockbuster/Video Drive-In et al.

After a couple of months of rumours, its now concrete that 'Together Through Life' will be released at the end of April.

Home Page | Bob Dylan

All sounds promising. Love and Theft and Modern Times are both up there with my favourite albums by Bob, so I hope this one can continue with it. And I'm seeing him live again in the Summer.8-)

God damn, I love Bob Dylan

Good idea. I'd like to see Sensible World of Soccer there if indeed there is going to be some retro games.

I would've loved to have been a teenager in the 50s and got into rock n roll then, then be primed and ready for the 60s, before taking a short sabatical and re-enter the fray as a battle-worn punk.

Although I have a terrible feeilng I may have been a rock naysayer and been into some stuffy dance-hall stuff or something

To answer the question, for me the 60s is the best hands down. In terms of style, society, drugs, and most importantly of course, the music; it wins them all. The 'definining' acts of the 60s stand tall above those from other decades, and the more I delve into lesser known stuff from the 60s as well, the more I find that I love.

I'm like Bigsby in that there is just something so right about the production of those times.

Had my xbox for 16 months or so now and never had a problem. I know its only just around the corner though so not going to get smug.

On the otherhand, I had a shot of a mates PS3 for a fortnight and it fucked up big time as it lay there untouched and undisturbed. Lucky enough the error was a recognised problem that no-one had any reason for why it came about so my mate didn't think I'd been misusing it. Took him an age to get a new one back as well.

Would've thought they'd have tried to ride it out until St.Patrick's Day *shudder*. But good riddance to it - crap pints and crap atmosphere and so garishly Oirish

To counteract what I'd said earlier I'd heard from the same sources as Biz (well came second hand from Chiz who is pals with Shane and also from one of Shane's minders or something like that) that it was DEFINITELY going ahead and was not a hoax.

Although its neither here nor there now as he missed his flight, as did the Dubliners I think, so for whatever reason, is not playing Fitzpatricks bar tonight

It's a terrible bar. As has been pointed out earlier, they're playing Florida tomorrow!! As yes, Shane always plays with the Pogues these days.

Anzie is suggesting 'Darren' will take legal action on anyone saying this gig will go ahead, but its on the Pogues OFFICAL website, for which you can buy tickets for the gig here - The Pogues Concert Tickets - Pompano Beach Amphitheatre in Pompano Beach, FL - A gig in Florida, on the same day this is supposed to happen...o_O

It wouldn't suprise me if the bar manager is basing this booking on a verbal agreement with Shane...which I'd say isn't usually the most reliable thing in the world.

I will say though he's done crazier things, and not joining the band for the start of a tour isn't exactly without precedent. But I just can't see him fucking off a tour to play a bar in Aberdeen.

That said, if I'm back from the footy in time I may nip in and I really hope I end up having to eat my words.

I haven't seen it but its already shit in my mind due to the terrible My Chemical Romance cover of Desolation Row that plays the film out.

My dad's in the tribute act and no they're not playing either. Think its the only Pogues tribute in Britain so pretty sure someones just got their wires crossed.

the Holy Folks team has 'glorious failure' written all over us but we'd be well up for it.

Pogues are in Florida on Saturday. With Shane.

I thought for some reason he had 4 posts rather than 40 odd. Even in that page he just comes across as someone who has been sucked in by PC trends and is tightly wound as a result.

Very much doubt the Dubliners will be there even if the rumour is true. Fitzpatrick is pretty shite though but wouldn't mind going along to see if this is true.

He's obviously not Stripey. He's posted on and off here for years, including several "drummer available" ads. I don't see the issue anyway; if you couch such a ludicrous argument in provocative terms people are going to get annoyed.

I don't think I mentioned satire, merely irony, but again it hardly matters. We're back to "artistically bad" rather than "immoral" or "illegal".

edit: and as others have pointed out, Jake could well lose his job because of this storm in a teacup

I said from the start that I didn't think he was right in the slightest. Likewise I don't agree with this whole thing at all. But, given the current media around this, and given the songtitles and band name, then is it not simply a case of him getting the wrong end of the stick.

He's reacted like a dick, but he was backed into a corner. Rather than simply pointing out the facts and where he's gone wrong folk jumped down his throat. And imo the comparison he made to a similarly racist band and Wifebeater is valid, although not particularly strong. I'm more lamenting that it isn't the first time a new poster has been put off due to getting attacked within their first few posts - all it takes round this place is one poor spelling mistake, one 'obvious' question, or one misguided view and the usual suspects are down their throats. And god knows this place, and thus the local scene in general, needs as much new blood as it can get.

Anything else I've posted is just because I think Wifebeater are shhheeeiiitttteeeee and most definitely NOT

I was going to stay out of this thread but... So you do laugh about it? Or have done once upon a time?

Of course. I've laughed at plenty of paedo jokes too. And disabled people jokes. Told plenty of them as well. But I also stated that wifebeating jokes especially, get tired very quickly. If they get tired in an arena where, after a few pints, anything is hilarious, then what hope did they have when playing gigs to the general public?

To start a band who appeared to take it seriously (being in a band I mean, not the songs itself), gig semi-regularly, make every second post on here about relating to it...That's not just not funny, its downright sad.

They never set out to offend the general public though, it was a vehicle to wind uptight punks (they stated this early on and evidence is on this website)and they did succeed in ruffling some of the punx feathers.job done.game over.out.

Haha fair play (although I still believe they'd of loved to offend the general public as well) but it doesn't take much to wind some of the true hardcore punks up. Some of them get severely wound up by even having the audacity to accept payment for gigs.

Shite musically, yes, but that's not what he meant. I could just as easily point to the stuff he said about Aberdeen welcoming them with open arms, which is bs anyway. The point is his gloating was specifically connected to them being persecuted for their band name and song titles (can anyone even decipher their lyrics?). Bands are derided as shite on here regularly and nothing happens; I've done it plenty of times and no one's ever bad rep-ed me. When you imply, as he did, that everyone in the Aberdeen music scene loves un-ironically sexist and violent bands then you can't expect people not to react angrily.

Well if it is Stripey then I fully understand as he was obviously being his usual mischevious self and wanting a raise. And if its not, then its pretty easy to see how he, albeit wrongly, arrived to that conclusion. Not that I think he thought they all loved them in a non-ironic way, but even finding it slightly funny is typical of the backwards way of thinking of a lot of Aberdonians.

And really, don't give me the satire shite. Satire is supposed to have at least some wit and design about it. Wifebeater just had a collection of commonly known wifebeating jokes that soon get tired when you're just having a laugh with the lads down the pub as song titles.

I also don't think the racism comparison is valid. There's nothing about the term "wifebeater", which is inherently derogatory to women; it's pejorative only to those it's applied to. "CoonHater" on the other hand has a racial slur in it. Even if it were toned downed to "racist" or such, still there probably those who would happily calls themselves "racist" (or "white supremacist", "white nationalist" or whatever). I don't think the same is true of "wife beater".

I hear ya in a lot of ways, and you're spot on in terms of the names, but that was all just hyperbole. The point remains that no-one would find it funny if there was a group of fully-grown men singing entire whole sets about beating other races and how white is better and there would probably be a backlash against that much quicker.

Jake and co set out to offend, and it wouldn't suprise me if they were hoping something like this would happen within their first few gigs. Trouble was nobody was offended and very few found it even slightly funny. The highest point in Wifebeater's career is causing this whole storm in a teacup that'll be over and forgotten about in a week.

He wasn't just jumped on for his view though; the response would have been less angry if he hadn't said "good riddance to shite" etc. People on a music forum are naturally going to react angrily to censorship. I agree that Wifebeater were terrible musically, but I just don't see how one can seriously argue they are legally inciting violence. I personally thought it was some sort of in-joke taking the piss out hardcore punks' machismo.

But they were shite and good riddance to them. And why would people who have nothing to do with the band react more angirily cos he said they were shit? I didn't see the deleted posts but what I did read was a few general insults towards Wifebeater then he's got a barrage of abuse from all sides.