Cloud

Oh and Club Sapphire was also a gay bar before it was Drakes.

Club 2000, I seem to recall. Many jokes were had about that place when I was in school, namely with the usual childish allegations of someone having been spotted coming out of there.

why the fuck would anyone ever name a club the "hoochie coochie club"?

i was wondering exactly the same thing..imagine admitting that you were going to a place called that on a night out? :/

Thanks man. Only one problem...Living in Glasgow these days lol

Do the same thing there

Might even be easier there, considering the popularity of Glasgwegian music..

Cheers for the input man. Much appreciated. I'll look into what you've suggested

I'm actually wondering if it might be worth your time getting in touch with the heads of music departments in schools - the more 'englightened' departments always organise band nights, and they may be very enthusiastic if you can bring a 'name' band to a gig with a good local support or two, along with a place for bands from the school in question. There's the issue of security/etc - but if it's a school event, it's pretty likely that they'll be on their best behaviour.

I'd give you Westhill as a good heads up to investigate - the Ashdale Hall is pretty cheap to rent, and the school traditionally has been quite supportive of alternative music. However, the music department is shit

A small suggestion - what about trying to put on a mini tour of school/community halls throughout the North East? You could get three bands as part of the 'tour', with a fourth band coming from the local area. I'm sure some established local bands that aren't up their own arse would kill for the opportunity to play some busy gigs and earn a decent amount of cash to do so - particularly as the kids at these gigs might very well end up turning up at their 'real' gigs in the city.

It might also be worth talking to those that have received public money in the past for gigs too - the council does have money available to give to these things, and I'm sure any proposal to 'get kids off the streets' will go down well with the decision makers.

Be bold, be brave

I'm currently trying to draw up some sort of plan that I can take to certain people but I thought a few more people would've been supportive of such an idea but it appears not

The problem is quite complex though - most private companies/individuals won't be interested because of the potential problems, particularly given past high-profile incidents with alcohol. You also have to consider the amount of knife crime among young people - rightfully or wrongly, no-one wants to risk having a stabbing in their venue.

I would suggest that it would make the most sense to lobby APA to do more for young people - they have the venues, the public funding and the remit to do things for young people, so they should be the first point of contact. However, they may very well argue that they do more than enough for young people and so that they don't need to do more.

I don't think in these economic times, you'll get far by appealling to private individuals - they have to make money, and they aren't going to risk their livelihoods on some idiot drunken teenager choking on his own vomit in the toilet.

Perhaps contacting local youth workers could be sensible? They would be able to arrange hire of school halls/community centres/etc, and you could easily attract a decent crowd (200 out of a school of 1000 wouldn't be hard) to a gig held in such a place. Sure, you'd have the hassles of putting the gig together, but you could more than likely charge a higher price given the 'community' nature of it.

There's certainly no reason that you have to put on gigs in city centre venues - although it may be difficult to convince bands to play in such locations rather than in mainstream ones. Local bands would probably be no bother (particularly as they could play a gig in say Cults one week and then the city centre the next without worrying about affecting their turnout in the city) - but I'm really not sure how a band around the 300-400 quid guarantee mark would treat an offer of playing such a gig.

But just don't expect the venues to show any social responsibility - unless they're receiving public cash, of course

That's a nice idea but unfortunately the venue is still liable to the authorities if anything goes wrong, and though your plan looks good on paper it wouldn't wash in front of an angry licensing board.

It's unfortunate really - you would think that the law would be flexible enough to understand that despite the best plans put into practice, things can go wrong. But I guess, as well, kids being kids, they'll find a way to get past your best laid plans.

Interestingly, I recall that the school disco in Westhill was forced by the police (no doubt as a result of people like me back in the day) a couple of years ago to pre-register everyone that was going, along with requiring everyone to be escorted to/from the hall to avoid trouble. Unsurprisingly, everyone stayed away.

The best way to accomplish this is to hire a church hall or a scout hut. Let people bring their own booze. If it all goes tits up then you can abscond. Nobody is going to indite a man of the cloth.

It really is the most sensible option - but as I was saying, I suspect most 'promoters' that put on underage gigs wouldn't want to take the risk of actually taking responsibility for everything. Can you imagine having to deal with 200 kids who are on the rampage because they'd paid a fiver to see some bands, only to be told that 'sorry, the PA's broken and you can't have a refund as we need to pay the headliners'....could be a nightmare

A promoter usually has to pay for all of these costs in the hire fee... and the venue takes the bar so makes no difference.

What venues charge a fee that bears any relation to the cost incurred by the venue to stage the gig? For instance, Drummonds used to be free to hire, and the Tunnels would charge 50 quid on a weeknight. That 50 quid wouldn't even pay for the staffing, let alone the ongoing costs with the PA and so on. Hence the bar becomes responsible for making the profit for the venue - and which is ultimately why underage gigs cannot be a great proposition at the weekends for venues looking to pack the place out until 12/1/3am with drinkers.

Something else comes to mind about weekends - okay, a venue may allow underagers in until 11. But the likelihood is that the vast majority of adults out for a drink and a good time that might consider some music won't be interested if they look in and see the place full of kids - they'll just go elsewhere. Then consider the fact that the police will 'have a word' if vast amounts of kids are hanging around outside, and they rapidly become a pest to a venue.

Flash has made plenty of posts in the past outlining exactly why they stopped doing 14+ gigs at The Moorings - and I dare say most venues will feel the same way at the weekends. The fact that these venues are happy to take on 14+ gigs midweek should be seen as a good thing, as it would be all too easy for them to move to a 18+ policy.

Fancy walking me through this one?

Certainly.

Any promoter with half a brain should realise that people, generally, will look to the weekend for their entertainment. Students are an exception - but seeing as adult gig goers comprise a wide section of society, then there's little point focusing on them above everyone else. Therefore, if you need underagers at the weekend to make your gigs viable, you're simply booking the wrong bands for the city - you should be booking the bands that bring in drinkers, which keeps the venues happy to keep putting on gigs. People seem to forget that these venues are businesses too - and if anything, it's more important that they make a profit (or at least, make an acceptable loss in the eyes of the owners) than the individual promoters.

Likewise, relying on underagers to fill a gig is a classic sign of someone not knowing what they're doing as they need the (easily satisfied) underage market in order to make their gigs successful. It's no great secret that you can make any gig successful just by sticking on a couple of support bands that draw vast amounts of kids - but it's hardly a success for a venue if their place is at capacity with kids, leaving no room for people who will actually stay and drink all night.

I think, at least personally, promoting to underagers is simply a lazy option - it's much, much harder to promote to adults, and as such, perhaps such 'promoters' that put on gigs aimed at the youth market should consider that rightfully or wrongly, the best place for such gigs are during the week.

Of course - to someone such as Inkster. Have you considered approaching the venues with a plan that you'll take responsibility for the actions of the kids at the weekend? An earlier start/finish, combined with an assurance that you'll take full responsibility in making sure that the venue is cleaned out of kids by a certain time might be taken seriously. If you had people deployed to catch such nonsense as drinking anywhere near the venue/in the venue, compulsory bag searches/taking any sort of bottles off them and proving that you will actually police the gig thoroughly, they may be more willing to take you on.

The final word on the matter for now - I think personally, underagers are a great way to sell out a gig. If you stick on two/three supports, all of whom have loads of mates and will sell loads of tickets, then you're probably onto a winner and can afford to pay the headliner a bit over their guarantee, which is always a nice gesture to make.

But it's probably bad news for a venue, especially considering the amount of things that can happen. It's probably an acceptable risk during the week, however.

If your lookin to putting on gigs at a weekend & the usual options are a no go. Why not put them in a venue that doesn't sell booze?

Probably because then, the 'promoter' has to take the risk with getting a PA system, security, sound engineer, etc. And without a bar to cover at least some of these expenses, then ticket prices go up and the 'promoter' won't do it as it's too risky.

In my humble opinion, if you're relying on an underage crowd to make your gigs worthwhile, then you're either booking the wrong bands for the wrong city, or you don't know what you're doing.

Of course, this just goes to show that the amount of cash spent on bailing out the Lemon Tree is absolute nonsense and should've been spent on getting a couple of small venues off the ground.

Also, I think it's shitty how the label wanted two girls in the band, and as such, Shaun was booted out.

Things like that are totally pants.

Happens all the time, though.

Didn't Take That's record company want them to drop Barlow?

We're named after my Business Studies teacher about 8 years ago.

Lobban would be far more interesting

(Was Mr Smillie still around in your time?)

Anyone who thinks they are somehow superior to others because of the fact they work in an independent coffee shop/record shop/whatever is a seriously laughable cunt.

That was one of the biggest things that made me laugh about Aberdeen...just the way that some people would prance around, just because they worked somewhere that people actually liked.

The Moorings, to their eternal credit, is probably the only place that hasn't had that type of attitude problem.

The drummer seems to drown everything else out and the girls dont seem to be doing ANYTHING.

Eyecandy, perhaps?

I think you're just bitter that Mart wouldn't let you stand on the stage and do nothing.

Oh jesus...I made the mistake of thinking that it would be a good idea to check out the support bands. Don't make the same mistake

Theres always been door staff as far as I am aware. Its part of any venues license that they must have door staff if its open until 2am.

Drummonds used to be somewhat weird on this subject - I was helping with a gig once at Drummonds that was rammed full of underagers. Word comes over that we have to stop letting people in - and so I ended up having to stand on the door, refusing entry to anyone that didn't already have a wristband. And this was without any sort of licence to do so.

However, the system they had of issuing different coloured wristbands was most sensible - fair enough, it relied on them trusting me to check ID's, but no-one was getting past me with anything that the bar staff wouldn't accept I remeber one of the best scams of times gone by was to remove the 'Not 18 Until....' from the Aberdeen Uni cards with nail polish - so, so many places would accept those cards without the date of birth back in the day

The money was the best in the world for entry level ESL jobs, but the Won 'tanked' (as the Americans say) like last month so I'm not sure now 8-)

It's just as bad for me in Poland, as the endless arguments between the prime minister and president are causing the Zloty to bounce around wildly, despite the country doing fine at the minute. There's been a few scare stories about Poland, but still absolutely nothing has happened to justify the recent slide of the currency.

It's infuriating, because the zloty was close to breaking the 4zl/1 pound barrier a couple of weeks ago, but it nearly dropped to 5 before recovering to 4.6 as of today. But what's even more infuriating is the way that it's dropped like a stone against the Euro. There's an argument that the Zloty has been intentionally overvalued since EU membership - so at the minute, it's hard to tell what to do in terms of justifying a demand for a pay rise.

Ian, thank you for pretty much explaining what I was thinking, too.

I think this idea would actually work wonderfully if it was on a weekly basis - you'd get through 16/20 bands a month, so within a year, you'd have featured (by your calculations) around 200 bands. I appreciate that the LT is probably highly unlikely to be able to allow every friday night to be taken up with local bands - but if the venue was truly committed to local music, then they would go for it.

However, token gestures such as one night a month for local bands do absolutely nothing, particularly if no risks are actually being taken with 'safe' acts such as Lady Mercedes and Rescue Party playing.

But really..is this night a genuine attempt to raise the profile of local music, or is it just tokenism on the part of APA to say that they're supporting local music?

I think at least part of the problem here is that the Lemon Tree, for years, has been accused of not supporting local music as much as they could do. The now-new management of the place appear to be following the same path that the past management did - and we all know what happened there.

Looking at the lineup for the LT in the coming month, there's almost nothing in the way of local music being featured. One night a month for local bands is going to do absolutely nothing in the long run - is it?

One question - where's the imagination? With the backing that the LT has, why not introduce some interesting nights? You could easily hold an art exhibition in there, combine it with some local bands and have some food/drink tastings, all on the same night. They have public funding for this kind of thing, so why not do it?

I don't really know what you're trying to say here. The boy has revised his initial, admitedly flawed plans, and he's saying you don't need to play the clubnight to get on this database.

Of course not. It would be entirely foolish not to do at least some basic homework to add popular local bands to the list - but will they really bother to add the more...I struggle for words, but the more obscure, yet just as deserving bands?

Of course bands that deserve it should get support slots, but there needs to be a happy medium. Personally, I think bands should be able to get a decent following along; isn't that half the point in having local support acts? The Lemon Tree failed spectacularly to make money last time round, so the ability to pull a crowd is surely something that should figure in the programmer's mind whilst selecting local acts for these slots?

There's the issue of public money at stake that you're forgetting. To me, that means a public service remit - and so they should be programming decent music, not just what pulls in the punters. Considering the amount of money given throughout the years (and which is no doubt still being given in a different guise) - is it too much to expect that they should be able to put on successful nights without needing the bands?

They are somewhat uniquely in a position to take risks - so they should take them, rather than putting on whatever the bland masses want.

Have you even read this thread? How can having a clubnight for local nights harm the venues reputation? You've obviously just read some other user's initial reservations and jumped on the bandwagon in a bid to gain brownie points. Get a clue.

Jumped on what bandwagon? I don't agree with the people expressing reservations on this thread at the best of times, so why would I be trying to get brownie points off them?

As for how it can harm its reputation - quite simply, if they move towards a system of 'the most deserving are those with the most fans', then they'll alienate quite a lot of bands that don't have a huge bunch of mates to bring along. In fact, it may just end up attracting Stranded type bands, which will do absolutely nothing for the venue's reputation.

Sorry to burst the bubble, but aren't Manager games really really REALLY fucking boring!?

Nope. The fact that the new FM will have a 3d match engine means that only the boring will find them boring

Thought both the locals supports sounded horrible last night and im a fan of both. Sadly the gig at Moshulu was a typical Moshulu gig. Poorly Advertised and Empty. The sound was so so as well. All credit to the bands. The gave it their all however.

Didn't you have anything to do with the advertising? o_O

Ouch.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned this - but it seems to me that the 'programmer' (I use that term loosely...) at the Lemon Tree is using this to judge how many people a band will pull - the comments about bands like the Little Kicks not needing to play the clubnight somewhat reaffirms this. Any band with half a brain that wants these support slots badly would be bound to bring a large crowd along, and so the Lemon Tree wins (in the short term). But of course, a lot of the bands who might fit will then be ignored, because they're not on the pub rock radar.

It's sad to say, but I agree entirely with the comments made about the Lemon Tree's problems - doing things like this will do absolutely nothing for the place, and can only harm the reputation. Given that it's public money at stake here, shouldn't the place be giving support slots (if possible) to the bands that actually deserve it locally, rather than those that brought 100 mates along to some club night?

Out of interest, how much knowledge does the new programmer actually have about Aberdeen these days?

shut up, cloud.

colonopenbracket were kinda cool and novelty to start with, but then the whole "label wants two girls" thing and then it being every girl MART was/is going out with that replaced the former member it just became laughable.

But who really cares about his personal life? To be honest, the fact that he could change the girls in question so easily shows that colonopenbracket is about him and not anyone else - and let's be honest, it would be lying to suggest otherwise.

Give them their credit, they were a nice breath of fresh air in a 'scene' that was full of appalling 'hardcore' bands.

Hope you're enjoying it; I've heard precious little good about teaching in Korea.

There can be a lot of good opportunities if you find the right place - though from my research, it does seem to be Americans that end up in bad situations as opposed to Europeans. The money in Korea is definitely good enough to get a decent living from, anyway. I'd love to go teach in Korea or the Middle East for a year...but I'm not brave enough

Ollie my good man - how are you finding teaching with a Scottish accent?

do people still like colonopenbracket!?

Dunno, but syntax was an irritatingly catchy song.

People with long memories might note that they're supported by the Cyrenians.

The Calgary Flames are my team of choice, having started to support them back in the days of when the only team that Tampa Bay could beat was us. A hatred for the Lightning then started, which wasn't made any better by the absolutely heart-breaking loss to them in the Stanley Cup Finals I still wish Khabibulin all the worst to this day.

We've not had a great start to the season, but Calgary rarely do - and it doesn't help that the Northwest Divison is usually ridiculously close anyway.

Oh, the stories about people being owed money by Kef/Paul. I'm pretty sure half of Aberdeen would have a story to tell about his somewhat...unethical approach to things.