CraigDDG

Having read this paragraph again, it really fucking bothers me. The best way I can get you to understand how important it is to pay musicians, is to ask you to look through your vast record collection and pick out your twenty all-time favourite albums. Now throw them in the bin and completely forget that they ever existed.

Because if those musicians only ever played shows for beer, those albums would never even have been written in the first place. Let alone recorded, released and subsequently performed.

Yeh, that's what I said - "musicians should never get paid".

I wonder how many of my favourite twenty bands played a gig or two for free at the start of their careers.

No you're not kidding. This is absolutely fundamental. Regardless of what level of musician one is, there will always be overheads associated with playing a show for a musician, regardless of the locality.

For me, expecting or asking a musician to play for free is an absolute insult, unless the circumstances require it (charity shows, fundraisers, and the like). And I'm saying that with my musician hat on and my promoting hat on. I would never even dream of asking or expecting a band/musician, regardless of their level/status/repuation, to play for no money at all. Musicians are providing a creative service and a form of entertainment, and the promoter has to reward that.

I have booked and promoted bands in the past who have point blank refused payment at the end of the night, because they didn't feel they merited payment or didn't want me to lose money. I have had to force this money upon these bands. I paid for their service and in almost every case, was absolutely honoured to do so.

Venues trying to invite musicians to play in their bar in an attempt to draw more paying customers through the doors to line their coffers, without guaranteeing a cash payment, is as low as a venue can go, in my opinion. That is literally exploitation.

A venue or promoter should want to book a specific band (not just any old band) because they would love to see that band playing in their venue, and they really love the music. Not just appealing on the internet for any old granny and her ukulele to come and play for some beers. That sounds like the venue wants live music purely for the sake of it, in the hope it will add "atmosphere" or generate paying customers.

I don't get the whole chain of thought suggesting that every musician should just be happy just to get a gig, especially when they are starting out. That is utter bullshit.

They're offering as a base level, payment by way of beer. If this isn't your kind of currency, then move along. They've also said that the bands will most likely be paid in cash.

Have we all just skipped these points over?

Regardless, you're also assuming that all musicians feel like you - and treat what they do as some sort of business. The only reason I ever played a gig was because I loved doing it, and the more gigs we played, the happier I was. Be it for free, for money, in a pub, in a garden, who cares? It's just about getting a chance to play to people. If it all comes down to brass tax for you, that's pretty sad.

This is all academic though - MUSA have offered two types of payment...

The fact is, you're using bands as a draw to get people into the venue (who will then spend their money on your drinks / cheese boards).

Why shouldn't a band be paid? It baffles me the attitude in this respect of certain promoters.

Give them a break Adam.

First off, the simple point is if you aren't interested, don't put yourseld forward. Secondly, especially for younger bands, the very chance of playing a gig at all is a big deal. I sure as hell played for a lot less than free beer.

I'm not sure I get why people are upset with "want a gig? Free beer! Cash if it goes well!"

I wonder if anyone knows the definition of amateur and professional.

I'm disappointed... I seem to be the only one in Aberdeen who has not seen any snow these past two days!

Protip: Snow happens outside.

The yellow duck awakens.

I am CraigDDG. I used to be Craig Solinus. And I used to be CraigDDG.