The Byre
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Both very good. Thomann is usually slightly cheaper and has the better service. Music Store give a no-questions-asked, two year guarantee to private (i.e. not commercial) customers. Both take about two days to deliver to the Highlands. I have yet to find a UK store with their range and prices.
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I think from now on' date=' I hope that Element will record everything in a studio, but the vocals in my house. A slightly bold move for someone who knows exactly what sound I want but doesnt know how to use pro tools etc.
Why a home set up? Well I love trillions of layers and this takes time, time costs money.
Firstly, I really want an Eventide effects processor, although if there is a software plugin equivalent that would rock.
Secondly a decent mike, recommendations?
Thirdly, is protools the best option, although I can learn stuff pretty quickly.
Fourthly *spelling* hehe, What is best to use so I can add the vocals to the rest of the recording without it sounding like a seperate entity?
Ok, probably should record the lot in a studio but I love the difficult options because Im awkward.
[/quote']Home recording at a professional level is expensive. It makes breeding horses or keeping sailing boats look cheap. If you are not earning money through music, I would think twice and even thrice about sinking thousands into kit that, once you have bought it, is more or less worthless. But hey nonny no and off we go, let's look at the options:
1. Effects? Eventide? They cost money. Somewhere beteen 3,000 and 6,000 depending on model. I'm working on the asumption that this is a hobby, so I would pass on this.
2. Mike? The Neumann hand-held thing (I forget the model number, so take a look at their website) is brilliant for the amateur. It is the bee's knees for vocals and just perfect for on-stage work, so you can use it for so many things that it is worth the 300 or more that it costs. I can think of no other mic in that price range that comes anywhere close.
3. ProTools may be the professional editing package of choice in the post production industry in and around London, but that does not mean that it is right for you. If you do not need MIDI, take a look at Soundscape. ProTools Lite is unstable and only of any real use for editing only (i.e. not mixing and not adding effects). There are many options to go for at all price levels here.
4. A good microphone (see above!)
And lastly: Yes, you're darn tootin' you should go to a studio (I would say that wouldn't I? I own a studio after all!) But you don't have to come to us, go to a studio and record to multitrack. If you insist on doing the home thing, take the multitrack (as a DVD-R) with you and play with it on a PC in CuBase or something like that and learn how all this malarkey works. Capt. Toms (I hear) has a service that does this and it would be the cheapest and most sensible way to learn about recording.
Buying a big pile of stuff and then learning what to do with it is a mug's game!
Cheers
Andrew
P.S. Ahhh! Just found that Neumann mic. The KMS 105. It costs 400 at www.musicstore.com and at www.thomann.de
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There are so many possibilities. I suggest you join the SOS forum and post this question there:
There is also a wealth of articles on recording at home on that site.
As for tips on getting started, I have several pages on my website at www.the-byre.com
The possibilities range from ProTools Free, which costs, as the name implies, nothing, but requires Windows 98, all the way thorough to any price you wish to mention.
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I see that you are looking at the offer on eBay. Well, firstly it is 85. That is 15 more than Music Store in Colgne and they provide a three-year guarantee. My guess is that the eBay item is just another forwarding scam. i.e. you bid, you pay and the seller orders it from Music Store and gets them to send it to you.
http://www.musicstorekoeln.de/en/global/0_0_G_0_ACC0001363-000/0/0/0/detail/musicstore.html
Also Thomann in Munich is slightly cheaper:
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_danelectro_dte1_reel_echo_bodeneffektgeraet_prodinfo.html
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Ahhh! I missed that! Yes, it looks like one! Mr. Knopfler described his place as "analogue's last big shout."
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Wow thats a nice studio. Do I see a Redd console in there aswell? The comparisons aren't really worth listening to in quick time format though!
Interestingly enough' date=' while most people went for Radar (as I suspected, merely through reading about it) no two people had identical opinions! Which begs the question, whose to say which converters or medium is better, is it purely personal preference?[/quote']
The main desk is an 88R and I think (?) the desk at the side is an older API. The studio is owned by Mark Knopfler and the whole complex cost about 8m with land and building.
As for which system sounds better, well, you said it!
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The Music Producer's Guild did a format shoot-out between Nuendo (Apogee ADDA), Radar, ProTools and a Studer A800 16-track.
To view the results, you will need QuickTime version 7.
http://www.recordproduction.com/mpg-event-june05-video.html
It is a bit ad-hoc and the Studer would not have been my machine of choice. Before we all start arguing the toss over which format is best, this was just one test with just a few pieces of music and there should be more tests to follow. Someone who was there told me that Nuendo was via Apogee converters as the video does not seem to mention this.
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All good stuff:
I keep running in to your posts. In EVERY one you are totally negative about EVERY aspect of the scene in Aberdeen. :I do not know the Aberdeen scene and I don't think I made any comment about it. I do know that there are allot of good bands in Aberdeen.
Your the absaloute epitomy of DONT EVEN TRY.....DONT EVEN HOPE. :The music business is built largely on dreams and quite honestly' date=' I believe that it is the easiest buiness in which to succeed massively. But you do have to tick all the boxes. So my message is, yes hope and dream, but also do this in the real World. There is no point in being unrealistic about what it takes to succeed - in music or anything else.
As for my comments on studios, when you are young, poor and inexperienced, it would not be my advice to open a studio. A great deal of work, hopes and dreams go into a studio and if the project is underfunded, undersized and the person running the studio has never actually worked in a full-time commercial studio, the whole thing would be doomed to failure.
I have just had to watch whilst some young man built a 24 IO studio and he poured his young family's (2 kids!) into that project. Every last penny. He did not have the funds to compete with anything well-established or large, he had no experience and ltlle idea what he was doing. The clowns at his local Enterprise Office (or whatever they call themselves) just told him to go for it and gave him a small pittance and a loan.
I told him not to do it. I shouted from the roof tops, but he said the same things that you are saying - why am I being so negative - why do I just put the whole thing down - and so on.
Well, you don't have to be bloody Casandra to know what happened. A year afterwards I got a letter from him, saying "Oh God. Why didn't I listen to what you were saying. Now we have lost everything and my wife has to live in a shelter with the children."
Would you have told him "Go for it, Dude!"? (Some friend, you would have been!)
IWHO THE WANTS TO TRAPES OUT IN THE COUNTRY TO RECORD.... where do you people get this idea that we need tranquility when recording. Shit man, I need a vibe when recording.And there are studios geared just for you. London is full of them and many of them are just great.
Yet I bet most have heard of Pro Tools' date=' and everytime you or someone on teh board mentions Pro Tools (i mean your expensive HD3 system) you always seem to shy from it, or mildly put it down. In one thread you actually said "I have a PTHD3 system but I will charge you 100 pounds per day extra to use it,[/quote']Because of the complexities of a large system, most engineers have their own system and prefer to use that. So studios usually have either a minimum system (24 IOs or thereabouts) or no system at all. We have a minimum system for editing, but if someone wants to use PT and ONLY PT (i.e. not track in Radar and then edit in PT) then we would have to hire in a very large system with 48 ins and outs and that costs money.
Because Pro Tools is extremely slow when used for tracking, most people use something else and then edit in PT and return to Radar, Fairlight, or whatever for mixing.
If you are tied to PT and need it for film work or AV work, then we can and do cover this and we do a good deal of film work and so often do hire in, but for rock and roll it does not make sense economically or artistically. 60% of all films made in Scotland are post-produced in Soundscape.
I produced/mixed/engineered a track that charted at number three in the UK charts. I mixed it using a Mackie SR24. A complete pile of crap you will agree. In your world budget gear cant work' date=' doesnt work. What do you have to say about that then?:[/quote']Well done!
My advice to you is try and INSPIRE. If theres youthful or even elderly wannabes here then surely a man with your experience could actually consider dishing out some inspiring advice. Go on' date=' im sure that if you dig deep enough you could pull out some remnant of your optimistic youth and share some of the wisdom without a lecture.[/quote']This business is full of slimey grinning fools making false promises just to get at your money or fuck you over in some way. They will pull you as far down that sewer of false hope as they can and then start asking for money. I prefer to stay realistic. That way, people know where they are and those who deal with me, deal with success more often.
Right now I have to go to judge a talent show and give away several days recording to the winner. I hope that is positive and optimistic enough for you!
Hey, and stop over for a beer or two when you are our way! You are welcome! I can tell you all my hairy war stories about the business, you'll enjoy it!
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I hasten to add that I was generalising and of course there are corners of the US where the music education is crap and there are corners of Europe where the musical education is brilliant.
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ProTools and mis-information
We charge 100 extra a day for ProTools HD3 with engineer. Are you sure you really need it?
There seems to be a great deal of mis-information here about ProTools.
There are three types of recording and editing packages:
1. Black box
2. Harware based, but using dedicated software on PC or Mac
3. Software only on PC or Mac
The main platforms in all these are as follows:
1. Fairlight, Radar, Tascam, Mackie, Alisis. Fairlight and Radar cost about 12,000 and up and an Alesis costs just 800 for the cheapest version.
2. Pyramix, Sadie, ProTools, Soundscape. These all use the same Motorola chip set, but each has its own software. Prices start around 5,000 for a complete Soundscape system and Pyramix can cost over 50,000
3. Software only systems abound in the hundreds and you can use just about anything, though the very good Logic works only on Apple (because Apple bought it!) but there many good packages that cost almost nothing. Logic costs about 1,000.
We are a commercial studio and have somthing in every one of the three sections. In section one we have a large Radar 48 track system that covers all our tracking needs. In section two we have Soundscape, ProTools HD3, and ProTools Light. In section three we have Audition, CuBase, Nuendo and a host of others that I canot remember. (We also have a reel-to-reel, the way God intended.)
Each system has its strengths and weaknesses. Although the London Post Production scene is pretty much ProTools or Pyramix, 60% of all films made in Scotland are done on Soundscape. Soundscape is very fast for audio editing, but is only now having some MIDI tracking added to the software. Logic is massive for MIDI, but I would be reluctant to use it for audio. Radar is the only game in town for audio tracking, but is slow for editing, so we end up exporting things to either ProTools or Soundscape just for the cuts and then bringing them back in again to Radar for the mix.
The choice of platform is largely driven by what the engineer is used to and happy with.
What you say about the Aberdeen scene is true for the whole of Scotland. Apart from one or two studios that belong to friends, I cannot comment on the studio scene and I have never been into an Aberdeen studio. Glasgow has a bit of a media industry (if industry is not too grand a word for it) serving the few films and the BBC. Aberdeen should have something going on around Gampian TV, though my guess is that these are just guys with an HD3 rig somewhere and not a full-blown studio.
You cannot blame Aberdeen or the studio owners for the lack of facilities. Putting up a propper music studio is numbingly expensive (think 500,000 minimum!) and unless you can attract an international cientele, commercial failure is guaranteed.
Three quarters - no, even more - of our work comes from outwith Scotland. Germany, Iceland, New-York and of course London, they all come here, but hardly anyone from Scotland.
That are many reasons for this: Firstly the Scottish music scene is poor. There are very few venues large enough and I cannot think of a single club that holds more than 500 people. That means that you will only ever get small acts.
Then all the good acts leave for London or New York. Here you are lucky to get MU rates for a gig.
Then, to put it very bluntly, the music industry in Europe is fucked. There are all kinds of theories behind this and I have my own theory:
The standard of music made in the UK is crap because the standard of musical education has fallen to rock bottom. I am 55 years old, so I wnt to school in the 50's and 60's and back then everybody had to learn to read music and play an instrument. Almost every second home, rich or poor, had a piano, organ or harmonium in the front room, so there was a real knowledge of music in the general population. Even if you did not particularly aim for a musical career, you got music lessons and mother used to show the kids how to pick out a bit of Beethoven or Mozart on the living room piano.
Also everybody sang hymns everyday at school and went to church and Sunday school on Sunday. Making music was something everybody did from a very, very early age.
Now nobody goes to church (I can't blame them!) and music is just noise on MTV. Add to that the total rubbish that is shown on TV like 'The X Factor' which permiates the myth that even untalanted and ugly people can make it in the music business and the result is that nobody sees the need to learn an instrument or read music.
America is different. They still go to church and they still learn music at school. That is why there are so many great new bands coming out of the US, but almost nothing from Europe. If you learn to sing harmonies in church, then singing harmonies on stage is easy. If you learn to play organ in church, then rocking on a B3 is easy. If you have to practice scales to a metronome at school, then keeping time in a band comes as second nature.
And talking about a great new band from the US and rocking on a B3, have a listen to this lot (mp3 players to the ready)
http://www.wdr.de/cgi-bin/mkram?rtsp://ras01.wdr.de/rockpalast/govt_mule/govt_mule.rm
Cheers
P.S. I forgot to mention, that band is a new band called Government Mule. Best thing I've seen and heard in years!
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I have several pages of advice on home recording here: www.the-byre.com
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Well, I largely put that statement there to provoke a reaction, but I also meant it to a certain extent.
Firstly let me just state that I was the first to adopt modelling amps and the better ones like Line6 are very useful indeed and The Pod is a much-used effect in the studio. I also think that many of the modern tube amps are not that good. They seem (not all, but some) to have lost sight of what the guitarist of keys player is looking for. But putting a few black sheep aside, let me dispel a few myths:
1. Tube amps are very expensive. NOT TRUE! If you compare like with like, they cost about the same. Yes, if you go for a top-of-the-line Hughes and Kettner, you can spend nearly 2,000 on the head alone and a top-of the line modeling solid state amp costs about the same as well. But you have to spend about 400 on the entry level modeling combo amps that actually sound a bit like a tube combo and that is what some of the tube combos cost. A Fame Tube-84 costs about 380, the same as a Line6 Flextone III. Even the Marshall (not a company known for being cheap) JCM2000 DSL401 costs 550 and is possibly the best studio combo out there. The Laney VC30 212 twin also costs just 550. the same is true for heads. Prices for a 50Watt all-tube head start around 420 and 100Watt heads coming in at around 600.
Of course a Behringer V series is much cheaper, but it will break and sounds like what it is, cheap rubbish knocked out at rock bottom prices.
My Laney 100 Watt tube bass head cost me 120 on eBay and it sounds every bit as ballsey as it did thirty years ago when it was built.
2. Tube amps are not as loud as solid-state as they only go up to about 100 Watts. NOT TRUE! Because the tubes compress (reduce the dynamic range) of the sound, and because they introduce harmonic distortions, they appear to be much louder, Watt for Watt. You need about four times as much power with a solid state to make as much noise as a tube amp.
3. Because tubes sound softer and less harsh, they don't bite through in a mix. NOT TRUE! Those added harmonics are the real thing and not a digital calculation, so despite all the other things that might be going on, they stand up in the mix perfectly. Solid state amps just dissapear when they are too quiet and when they are too loud they screach. Tube amps are much more forgiving and so they are easier to get right.
4. But Big Jonney Rock Star uses a solid state 'XXX' I know because I read it in Guitar Magazine and in Axe. REALLY NOT TRUE! Headliners get paid to place these interviews in music mags as they know that all the punters will rush out and buy whatever they use. Looking to see what Big Jonney Rock Star uses has more effect on sales than any other factor - more than advertising. They all use tube amps.
And as for the test sited above by Chris, I cannot comment as I was not there. But I hear the difference every time, particularly when it comes to a mix. On the solid state side, the Line6 stuff is far better than the rest, but then it costs more than some tube amps and it still is not as good.
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If you are talking about a guitar head or similar, as long as the head is tube/valve, then you can use just about anything that comes within its pwer range or more. So a Marshall 100 Watt head will have no problems with a 200 Watt speaker cab. It does not have to be a guitar cab, it can be anything, PA cab, whatever.
(Watch out for hi-fis as they nearly always are made from very poor componants and the power rating is usually grossly over stated.)
The only thing to watch out for is the ohm rating. Older tube/valve amps often have a jumper or switch at the back to switch between 4, 8 and 16 ohm speakers. This switches between coils on the output transformer, so make sure that they match.
If your guitar or keyboard head is not tube/valve, sell it, junk it, throw it away. The PA amps should be obviously solid state (i.e. transistors). Guitare and keyboard amps should always be tube/valve for a whole host of reasons (harmonic distortion, compression, saturation, perceived volume etc.). For these reasons, our tube/valve amps rated at 100 Watts actually sound almost as loud as the 2 x 600 Watt PA amps.
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Remember it isn't always the shops fault. Suppliers can take ages to get stuff. I had to wait about 3 months to get an Electroharmonix pedal in Aberdeen. Same with my Boss TU2. The distributers apprently wouldn't send out any unless in bulk...or something. Still I think websites should only advertise stuff they have in stock at the time.
Sorry, but I used to own a music shop and all my suppliers were always only too happy to send out small items.
What is happening is that the shop gets a bulk order discount and also gets an average order discount in some cases. So ordering a single item can bugger up your average order size, just as you were heading towards a nice fat rebate on your next order, somebody comes in and asks for a plug or a footpedel or something.
Try ordering something expensive and see! Call and ask for a Boesendorfer Imperial Grand for 80,000 or a even just a Korg Triton for 2,000 and it always can be there the next day. But a 10 footpedal, ooo! (Sharp intake of breath!) "We've had them on order for weeks, Sir! Footpedals, there're getting like hen's teeth, Sir!"
But what has (fairly obviously) happened here is that the shop did not have any relationship with G&K so the very first time the boy behind the counter heard about them was when you asked for them. They don't want you to draw them into a wholesale-retail agreement with G&K, because in order to buy just one item, they have to commit to buying their complete range. They have got a whole shed load of nasty Chinese amps gathering dust that they need to shift and you ask for something they haven't got!
You fool! How could you?
"G&K Sir? Oooo! Not very good Sir! Bit of a harsh sound Sir! Now we've got some really nice solid state digital Carlsboughs made in Shanghai Sir, they sound lovely Sir! Would you like to try one Sir?"
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I'm compiling a collection of the last 4 filthpact releases plus some bonus tracks for a discography release' date=' problem being its all been mastered seperately and so has a slight variance in volume levels. In an ideal world i'd get it all remastered together, but its 30+ tracks and there simply isn't the time or money available to do this.
As a result i'm considering putting it all together on Nero and using the 'normalise all tracks function' to balance out the volumes of each release but am however concerned that a) clipping may occur, b) it may change dynamics of the sound other than volume.
Can anyone shed any light at all on this? as i'm pretty clueless when it comes to such things!
Cheers,
Dave[/quote']
It depends on how you set it up, but it should not. Suck it and see!
Failing that, take up that generous offer above, or we can remaster the lot for you for just 200.
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There you go -
also www.musicstore.com are selling off their G&K gear at almost half price, but they only have a limited range of stuff on stock.
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Very Interested in the CD's in slimline cases at that price!!...can you produce proper J-Cards aswell?
Of course - anything.
Call me on 01463 741 829 or email andrew@the-byre.com and I'll get a price list to you.
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All colours and all types of print. The on-CD print is genuinely on the CD using a new process called laser transfer. That means it prints the CD body directly to the plastic and not on a white background like an ink-jet. The CD-Rs are from Sony and are burnt at x 4' date=' so even my old Bose (that otherwise rejects CD-Rs out of hand!) in the kitchen reads them.
We still recommend regular CDs, though if you only need a few, then you only need a few and not 500.
I will have to come back to you on price, as I have to find out what the latest batch of Sony CD-Rs for audio cost and I can only do that on Monday.
If you give me a call on 01463 741 829 I can have a sample sent out to you. The booklet and tray are also laser printed and not ink-jet.
As I said, this is as close to a replicated CD as you can get at the moment, without actually being one.[/quote']
The cost is 120 for 100 CDs with everything and with full-colour print on the CD (NOT INKJET, but the real thing) and that includes VAT, a walet in paper or clear plastic.
We can also supply a slimline jewel case (12 extra) and a regular jewel case with full colour digital print (again, NOT cheap inkjet, but laser transfer print). The price aso includes delivery. The whole thing takes about a week.
We shall be doing vinyl soon and can supply single vinyl disks from your CDs.
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Having tour managed an "up and coming" act signed to a major label I would suggest that your suggested fee for an "up and coming" band is total fantasy.
Your explanation of PRS payments seems a litte suspect also' date=' prs will pay the holder of the copyright of the music you perform a fee for every time their compositions are performed in public, its not just a share of the ticket price.
And you forgot to mention that if the "up and coming band" are lucky enough to get a high profile support they will probably have paid for the privelage and get no fee, no rider, no hotels, no nuthin....!!.[/quote']
Sounds like that was far from up-an-coming, but was just a support band and they never get paid. In fact, if they start asking for their rights, or insist on some form of payment, they are nearly always tossed out on their ear.
Venues above a certain size (no, I cannot remember, but it is a few thousands seats) have to be PRS registered and assuming that the band plays their own songs, they will get a part of the PRS fee. Of course, if this is their first venture out into the World, they will probably have signed their fees away in a quid-pro-quo agreement in exchange for other services (such as being allowed to appear in the first place!)
The term up-and-coming is one of those industry short-hands for an act that is about to break, so you'd better be nice to them. They get paid.
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We are always on the look-out for vintage kit. Hammond organs (B3, C3, RT3, A100) Fender Rhodes, Wurleys, analogue synths (Poly-Six, ARPs, Moogs, Monopoly etc) and older mics from AKG, Sure, Coles, Neumann, Schoeps, Telefunken etc., old analogue studio effects such as plate reverbs, Binson and WEM echo machines, BBD devices etc.
If you've got something lurking in the attic, send me an email on vintage@the-byre.com
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All colours and all types of print. The on-CD print is genuinely on the CD using a new process called laser transfer. That means it prints the CD body directly to the plastic and not on a white background like an ink-jet. The CD-Rs are from Sony and are burnt at x 4, so even my old Bose (that otherwise rejects CD-Rs out of hand!) in the kitchen reads them.
We still recommend regular CDs, though if you only need a few, then you only need a few and not 500.
I will have to come back to you on price, as I have to find out what the latest batch of Sony CD-Rs for audio cost and I can only do that on Monday.
If you give me a call on 01463 741 829 I can have a sample sent out to you. The booklet and tray are also laser printed and not ink-jet.
As I said, this is as close to a replicated CD as you can get at the moment, without actually being one.
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We can do duplication and replication. Our dups are now so good that only an expert would be able to tell the difference - but they are still CD-Rs, even if they don't look like them!
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Aren't the Cinematics from Dingwall?
Saw them at the T-break stage' date=' I think it was 2004. I'd never heard of them and thought they were great. I've also found out I know somebody who was in the old band with them.[/quote']
They did a one day recording with us of three songs, no editing, just a mix. They took that demo to several managers and agencies and one of them placed them with a New York record company who is now getting them gigs throughout the World as a support band for one of their headliners.
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No, because the random access time has to be below 5ms (the time between pressing down a key and the machine making a sound). I do not know what Flash memory speeds are, but I doubt that they are that fast.
How Much Are Ebows?
in Musicians' Corner
Posted
Get iut here for 60:
http://www.thomann.de/iw_smb_suche.html?SUBJECT=KOMFORTSUCHE&iwid=2&SUCHBEGRIFF=ebow
And, yes, they are brilliant. Worth every penny for the serious rock guitarist!
www.the-byre.com