Sky

If nothing else, this has amused at least one person (me) between lectures.

I'm pretty disappointed in Dan Atom, though. From the previous altercations, he always seemed to be the reasonable one. It seems I was wrong on this count.

(I fully expect to get a hail of abuse for that last comment, but I'm not going to bother replying. Take it as a retreat if you will, but I'm bored of this now.)

So you have potshots at us as you have a grudge. How mature. Thanks' date=' I'm glad that's settled. I'm behind the bar at Moshulu most nights it's open, I'd be glad to hear about your grudge.

And their goes that whole uninformed thing I was talking about.

You may be smart and articulate, but in the end, you have no clue about my band and what we are all about. Now run along and leave us alone.[/quote']

I'm not entirely sure what the first sentence is supposed to mean. I take it that you think I have a grudge against your band, or one member of it, and that's why I take "potshots" at you?

If so, you're wrong; but, as this argument is cyclical and seemingly self-perpetuating (MMw: "You're taking potshots!"; Sky: "They're hardly potshots... More like criticisms." MMw: "Potshots!"; S: "Criticisms!"; MMw: "Potshots!" S: "Criticisms!"; ad infinitum.), I'll just agree to disagree, and I'll run along.

Purely out of academic interest, what does one have to do to become informed about your band? I'm assuming having the EP isn't enough? (I can see what that admission will open me up to, but I'm too tired to attempt to pre-empt the criticism I'll draw.)

It was an interview' date=' something Ben received in an email and filled in straight off the cuff, no time was spent on thinking of ways to make ourselves look any better/bigger/more important than we actually are. It's just something that someone who really likes and really believes in our band asked us to do for her website in the States. You would've thought by now that we would've learnt to not put anything that involves My Mind's Weapon on view through Aberdeen-Music, but hey, that's our mistake. I still find it pathetic that our friend Sky here is still having a sulk over the fact that he used to have a crush on Ben's girlfriend, and she knocked him back.

[...']

*Note to Sky..Only double dots today.*

Like my alliteration? Cool, now write me a song, you pedantic child.

I never implied that Ben should spend time making you look "bigger/better/more important" than you are: I offered the advice that slightly more time should have been taken on it, with the aim of appearing more like the adult that he frequently asserts he is, rather than some over-eager teenager.

Should it not have warranted slightly more attention than "off-the-cuff"? I would have thought publicity to be deserving of slightly more attention than that.

I rather fear I am in the trap of never being able to shake this whole highroller, therandomblonde and I thing. Again, for the record, I was not romantically interested in, or attracted to, therandomblonde in any way, shape or form. As I have asserted frequently, I am not interested in pursuing girls who are four years my junior, and I doubt that I will be for quite some time. (Perhaps when I'm thirty and they're twenty-six, but twenty and sixteen? No thanks.)

But, that said, it's much easier to view that as my raison d'etre. I doubt you'll believe me, as, understandably, Ben's word carries more weight. If you really want to find out who I have a grudge against, and why, come speak to me some time. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. (Big clue: It isn't Ben. He doesn't appear anywhere on my grudge list, perhaps because I have no grudge against him. Another big clue: It has nothing to do with Ben's girlfriend.)

As for the song, it's called "My Mind's Weapon Made Me Cry And This Is My Revenge (Especially For The Double Dots, Oh And That Girl I'm Supposed To Have Liked), Part One". It's a six-part, emo-metal-hardcore-punk symphony, with myself on vocals, tears, tantrums and wailing. I also supplied the foot stamps, fist shakes and snotty handkerchiefs. Gnashing of teeth and limp-wristed curses are to be supplied by my mother, as no-one else likes me enough to appear on my record. Or, indeed, be seen in the same hemisphere as me.

I like the way Ben has talked in the same defensive and equally aggresive manner that he has on the message boards. That really sums him up his inability to have interviews as well as take on negative critisims.

I didn't think that the interview actually had any criticism in itit was filled with "MMw rock!" platitudes' date=' and was very sympathetic towards the band. I do, however, think that Ben's tone didn't reflect particularly well on him; as [b']jester1470 said, it did seem like an attempt to look cool. Also, his punctuation, grammar and general writing style remained Wastelanded, and I think that this is a major impediment to serious credibility, as it appears very immature. It's good to see that the triple-stop phenomenon continues unabated.

It amused me that he felt it necessary to mention his age twice when he could have quite happily done without mentioning it at all, and that he dismissed a (perfectly valid) question about the comparisons the band recieves to other post-hardcore bands with the reply, "I think its because we like to make a bit of effort with our clothes and hair..." It struck me as one of the more, ahem, "interesting" interpretations of the trend.

Jesus Christ. People are still ragging on MMW. Nothing ever changes but the forum skin....

Didn't you used to fight with highroller? I seem to distinctly remember incidents with you two reverting to digital fisticuffs' date=' though I'm too lazy to carry out a search for them.

I don't think offering an opinion on an interview counts as "ragging" the band; I think it counts as offering some advice so that they can improve their performance next time around, whichunless I'm horribly off the beaten trackwould be most useful.

You have to remember that interviews are an excellent way of presenting yourself and gaining new fans; more than one band/group/outfit/what-have-you has gained my interest through interviews. For this reason, I feel it's important to present oneself in the best possible light and answer in an intelligent, literate manner, hipness be damned. Though, having said that, this particular interview wasn't a great forum for intelligent discussion, as, whilst the interviewer's questions were perfectly adequate, they were hardly challenging or well-presented.

It's just I assume that that interview was taken in by e-mail, and since April 2000 was mentioned twice, it seemed probable that it wasn't a typo.

I like your investigative style. Determined, concise and logical. The repetition of "2000" makes a repeat typo unlikely; especially when you consider that, on the numeric keypad, it's hard to aim for three and hit zero, especially twice in a row. (This is entirely discounting the row of numerals above the keyboard itself, as confusing the two characters on that really would be a work of extreme talent.)

I read the interview right through' date=' and it really did make me cringe. But it has taught me a lesson - don't do an interview for an american site, because it really ends up reflecting on your band THAT bad.[/quote']

I agree with this sentiment. Doing an interview for a site is always a bit risky anyway, as they tend not to have a particularly high code of journalistic conduct, if they have one at all.

Jesus' date=' it's only an interview people.

Some of you really need to get your heads out of your asses.

If you don't like them, don't bother replying to the threads huh?[/quote']

I find it most amusing that people will blindly defend MMw by accusing people of blindly attacking them. The pot, the kettle.

Ladies and gentlemen' date=' I give you the unequivocal post of the year.[/quote']

Thank you.

If anyone wants to judge the level of innovation in AKA the Fox' date=' we are playing a couple of gigs in August, see for yourself. (NB gig not available as webcast)[/quote']

Where and when are these gigs? A friend whose music taste I trust recommended your band to me, and I've been meaning to make it to a gig ever since.

to be totally honest' date=' and i SWEAR im just putting my opinion forward here and not wanting a huge argument.

Sky your views in this thread annoy me quite alot...you constantly talk like someone who has a good knowledge and understanding of the local scene when in fact you rarely attend gigs...if at all...as far as i know you dont go to Moshulu on club nights either.

Your views seem to have been formed from this site when the only true way to gather knowledge on the local scene is (rather obviously) to go to gigs and listen to local band releases.

I dont think there are many people on here who would actually know who you are if you were to go to a show. What I mean by this is that you have very little or no presence in relation to the kind of views you put in text on here. Most people on here will know who each other are even if they havent spoke just by seeing them regularly at shows.

Im not picking on you (I SWEAR ON MY TAMA DRUM KIT THAT I LOVE DEARLY) its just your posts bother get up my nose a bit coming from a non regular at local shows.[/quote']

Whilst not wanting to start I fight, I do find it most interesting that you chose to pick up on my argument over anyone else's. This, of course, could just be sheer accident, and I'm willing to put it down to that.

I freely admit that I rarely attend gigs; most I stumble upon by accident, by being in the venue prior to the band's performances. As for the last gig I went to deliberately, that would have been one that Claire Hamilton performed recently, in a bar that's name escapes me. I went because, as her friend, I was there as a show of support; I also went because, from a totally unbiased view, I think that the girl has talent. Of course, with this admission, I open myself up to cries of, "hypocrite! you only went because she's your friend! you only like her because she's your friend!", but this I am prepared to deal with. I don't think that it's inconcievable that someone can be friends with a member of a band/act/whatever and still not unbiasedly appreciate their music. Having said that, though, I do feel that many people in Aberdeen don't adopt this stance, and merely praise a band because their buddy is lead singer/guitarist/drummer/triangle-player and they don't seem to realise that part of being a friend is being trusted enough to offer constructive criticism.

As for Moshulu, you're rightI'm not a regular attendee. I used to go more frequently, but the sameyness of the nights really began to wear thin, and the people there, by and largeand this isn't a broad generalisation: there are exceptionstend to be very unwelcoming to those who don't look and act the part (and I freely admit that I do neither). Also, as my music tastes broadened off from being just rock, I found that it no longer satisfied me in this respect. But, as allsystemsfail pointed out, why does attendence at Moshulu actually matter? I was unaware that, to offer opinions on Aberdeen's music "scene" I had to be a card-carrying Moshulu-ite.

On the subject of people recognising me at gigs, is this really that important? To be honest, I enjoy having a low-profile at these things. I don't see why my visibility, or in this case, lack of, would have any impact on my ability to offer valid criticism. (Also, I appreciate that you have refrained from using my name in this threadI prefer to choose those to whom I disclose that information, rather than allowing it to be freely distributed by others. This, again, is to do with my preference for a low-profile.)

As I said before, none of the above is intended to provoke an argument; they're merely my observations based upon your posts.

I don't go to gigs either' date=' and I don't intend to. Do you have to be a regular scenester to be able to put forward an opinion? Maybe a lot of you are too "close" to the scene to be able to rationally criticise it. You should value external viewpoints, not try and silence them.[/quote']

I feel that the way the "scene" stands, to put forward an opinion, many people do expect you to be a regular at gigs. This is something of a natural reaction: it's very galling to see someone who isn't part of the same group as yourself and those you associate with offering up negative views on something that you care about. But it also closes off a valuable entry-point for criticism, which I feel is dangerous. No man, or group of men, is wise enough to be above criticism from those external to the situation.

I feel that many are too close to the "scene" to be able to step back and examine it dispassionately; but I feel that more are unwilling to do so, as they fear they may not like what they discover. What people need to recognise is that just because someone offers criticism, it doesn't mean that it's a personal attack.

There are plenty of bands out there who don't sound anything like you describe' date=' maybe you should try finding the ones that are different and ignoring the ones you don't like, it seems like the easy option.

I've stopped worrying about it, it'll never change because as soon as something becomes popular (e.g. this innovative music of which you speak) it is no longer innovative cos every fucker wants a slice of the action and will copy it, then we'll be looking for something innovative again once we're sick to the back teeth of that.

I find it best to let innovation take it's course naturally, not to try to force it, because the innovators are normally rebelling against the norm and quite often the music shows the passion. Basically leave people to it and it'll happen when it needs to.[/quote']

I worry that the amount of sand I'd have to sift to get a nugget of gold is overwhelming; I, too, am deeply afflicted by a microscopic attention span, and that kind of labour-intensive, and potentially futile, course of action doesn't appeal to me.

I agree with your statement regarding the commoditisation of innovation; but I feel that this is a narrow viewpoint on what "innovation" is. To me, innovation is not just about doing something totally outside the bounds of established practise, but also about taking the established order and altering it slightly, whilst still playing within the bounds of said established pattern. This approach can be just as innovativeand is, indeed, much more difficultthan simply going completely outside the bounds of a defined genre or style.

I also agree with your point on forcing innovation; it just doesn't work. But I disagree that if we "leave people to it ... it'll happen when it needs to." I don't think that this is so; too few people have the drive to innovate because it is not required to be successful within the context of the local "scene", and in this we have a catch-22: until people begin innovating, it will not be a compulsory thing to do to attain success; untill people stop attaining success, innovation will not take place.

fuck it' date=' music is music.good music is good music, bad music is bad music and innovative music is innovative music.[/quote']

I never stated anything other than the above, nor did I imply that something has to be innovative before I can consider it good. But I feel that the innovation argument, justifiably and necessarily, digressed into one of quality, and this I feel is a valuable and important discussion that needs to take place.

Thats a common mis conception Ive noticed too

I went to Moshulu (by accident) once. Or was it twice. Dunno. The music was ok. Safe MOR alternative stuff. Anyway' date=' all I really saw was a bunch of very drunk posh kids trying very hard to be different. Thing is, they all looked EXACTLY the same. So I dont think the Moshulu club nights have any bearing on the local music scene or its INNOVATION at all. Some people who own guitars go there. That all. Some people who have guitars go to lots of other clubs too. Does that make sense?[/quote']

I feel that, if anything, the current climate of Moshulu exerts a counter-innovative force on the music scene. These, by and large, are the people who get up week-in, week-out to dance to the same songs, over and over, and these are the people who buy Kerrang! and follow its musical advice and recommendations. Because these people are, as I have said on many occasions before and will undoutably say again, xeroxes of the people that fill the Priory, Liquid, et al, with only marginally different musical and stylistic preferences, but just as fundamentally conservative and unadventurous as their more "mainstream" counterparts.

I will, of course, be shouted down from the roof-tops for this, but I feel that it holds true: nearly everyone I met in Moshulu was of this template, and I can think of only one I know well enough to speak to that doesn't fall completely within the bounds of this definition.

You're putting lack of motivation and fear of losing their 'fans' (which is gonna happen anyway to local bands who stay local' date=' so why worry) but missing the obvious.

Unless you go out of your way nowadays to avoid it you're bombarded with music exactly as you describe it, fast food music. Is it any wonder that's what people think music is.

I think in any period of pop music history you'll find the same scenario.

And in any city in the world.[/quote']

Just because you're constantly being bombarded with fast-food music doesn't necessarily excuse copying that music. Does that trend not worry you? In a community that proclaims so stridently that they're "alternative" and "open-minded", is it not alarming that these people copy everything that they hear? Intelligence is, of course, not always accompanied by innovation or originality, but one would hope for a slightly higher amount of both being in evidence in Aberdeen. Bear in mind that this is a student-filled city, with one of the best Universities in Scotland, and we still can't turn out anything other than Blinkalikes or Funeral For Our Formula? That's more worrying than anything.

You are right about having to go to great lengths: I have to constantly search for new bands and genres to interest me, and this search is usually only accomplished via a very long and time-consuming process involving the internet and recommendations/mentions from a wide variety of sources.

Finally, the fact that this problem is common to every city in the world does not excuse those guilty of propagating it.

Karoake with guitars and drums. Its no better than Pop Idol or Fame Academy.

Pah' date=' its too late for serious discussion.[/quote']

Sadly, this is most likely true. The people responsible for the "me-too" bands in Aberdeen are unlikely to listen to anyone who doesn't shower them with compliments. Even more worrying, however, is that some of them actually believe that they are totally innovative and that anyone who criticises them does so because they "don't understand them" as they're far too avant-garde.

Aberdeen is a pretty diverse more rockwise in my opinion. [ My emphasis. ] Much better than a lot of the scenes I have any experience of. Perhaps more electronica and hip hop oriented stuff would be lovely but I'm never sure if there's that much scope for it live in the 'deen. Watch this space though

I think that one statement from Psydoll covers the real problem with Aberdeen's music "scene" perfectlyit's diverse in a rock sense' date=' but nothing else. There are very few electronic practioners, other than a couple of bedroom artists, and I don't even think there is one hip-hop/trip-hop/house/garage act in Aberdeen. (I'm placing Starfall firmly in the "rock" categorythe genre debate can never be truly solved, but I'd classify them industrial-rock and be done with it; of course, I am aware of their use of drum machines and synthesisers, but these are, in my opinion, merely treated as backing tracks to the guitar riffs that construct the main body of the song.)

No, I don't think there are many interesting groups in Aberdeen. Going by what I've heard so far, (certainly the bands that plug themselves on here) a lot of it seems to be just rock derived drivel with absolutely nothing new to offer.

Last time I checked, music was an artform, and is meant to be about creating, not carbon copying.

In art terms, Aberdeen is more like that shitty poster shop on union street that sells prints of all the cliched tat, than an art gallery.

I think that Stripey fires pretty true with this remarkmost of the bands in Aberdeen are rock-derived, and it's not the rock-part that bothers me, but the derivation involved. I can't, from a cold start, name a single Aberdeen act that's anything other than very obviously influenced by one band or a group of bands/genre. I think that this is rather sad.

Daveofficer mentioned that he felt it was very difficult to innovate with the standard rock palette, and I half agree, half disagree with him. It is very hard to innovate with these tools, unless you have the talent and vision to look beyond your verse-chorus-verse and catchy riff and start thinking in terms other than those. Then, regardless of your limited palette, you can still innovate. As Autechre said in an interview with The Wire some time ago, if everyone in the world used only three instruments creatively, they'd learn these instruments properly, get a feel for them, and still be able to innovate, despite the commonality of said instruments.

Of course it's very very difficult to be innovative' date=' but there's no excuse for being bland either, like the rock bands in Aberdeen that my comment was aimed at. There's a certain air of smugness about the part of the scene which I've seen so far, and I think all this patting-yourself-on-the-back because you do a few gigs in drakes and some of your mates turn up and applaud, is unhealthy. It's as if they don't think of themselves outside the context of Aberdeen.

Having seen the naive and simplistic musical tastes that a lot of people round here have, I suppose it's no surprise that there isn't a lot of genuinely inspiring stuff going on. When people have grown up believing in the MTV TOTP NME musical paradigm, maybe it's to be expected that they only aspire to do more of the same, just to be another cog in that machine, because it's all they know.[/quote']

Again, I concur with Stripey here. There is too much derivation, and this is fuelled by the incestuous nature of the Aberdeen "scene"; in certain circles, everyone has a good friend, or even partner, in a band and they're blindly defensive of them, regardless of any musical merit they may or may not haveit's the knee-jerk, "fuck you for slating my boyfriend/best -friend/brother's band!" reaction that really gets to me. Part of this is agea lot of the people involved are very youngbut part of it is a symptom of a worryingly molly-coddled person, who has no facility to cope with criticism, so merely starts swinging. What people fail to understand is that criticism can take many forms: if I mention that I felt that the band was playing slightly out of time, or the lead guitar was tuned wrong, or that I felt such-and-such a song ended poorly because of [insert reason]then I would consider it constructive, and thus the person who reacts poorly to it is in the wrong; if, however, I merely said, "Your band is shit; your lead singer's a cunt," then the reaction would be perhaps justified.

I feel that Moshulu is as big a problem as the NME/Kerrang!/MTV2 axis that influences tastes throughout Aberdeen. Moshulu is good in some ways, in that it allows you to meet with others with similar musical tastes and thus, hopefully, people you will get one with, but it also has a very large down-side: it tribalises the "alt"-kids in much the same way that all the "lower" people are tribalised. The vast majority don't come out of Moshulu with an open-mind and willingness to accept others as they are; they come out with a fixed view-point of cool and everything that fails to conform to that is instantly uncool and wrong. Instead of bucking the status quo, Moshulu and the like merely create a superficially different, but fundamentally similar, one.

Personally i don't agree that people should attempt to be innovative just for the sake of it. People pick up guitars' date=' basses, drum sticks etc because they want to play music that they enjoy listening to. If people enjoy playing what stripey describes as bland mtv rock then what's the problem with that. I don't think the fact that there aren't as many innovative local acts reflects badly on the scene i think if anything its basically because there isn't a market for it. What there is a market for is the type of stuff that people are playing. If there really were loads of people crying out for cutting edge stuff then they'd get off their arses and do it themselves wouldn't they? The fact that this isn't happening shows that there really aren't that many people wanting to listen to that kind of stuff. The kind of bands that exist reflects the music that the majority want to listen to, basically because its the people that go to gigs/buy music that create the bands.[/quote']

I agree on some points in the above, and disagree in others. I don't agree that you should innovate purely for the sake of innovationthat's like wearing a scarf purely for the sake of wearing a scarf.

I disagree that this needn't reflect badly on the "scene"I think it most certainly does. The health of a society is measured by the diversity of expression of its individuals. If these individuals are unable or unwilling to express themselves in interesting ways, does this not say something worrying about society at present? To me it doeswhen a society loses the will to innovate, it loses the will to adapt, and with it, eventually, the will to survive.

I also disagree that there isn't a market for it: I know many people who don't bother going to gigs because they don't feel that the band are doing anything that they couldn't sit at home and see on MTV2 or Q or whatever. I think this is also partly to do with the poverty of talent that affects many bands within Aberdeenmost seem to lack any kind of stage prescence, many seem to lack the ability to write a good song and thus lack the credentials necessary to pull in crowds. Personally, for all my cries of, "innovation! innovation! innovation!" I would go to see a band that didn't really care about innovating if they were good at what they did. The sad truth is that most bands just aren't even very good at Xeroxing existing bands.

As for the failure of those who desire innovative music failing to make it themselves, do you not feel that this is a slightly foolish statement? The desire for innovative music is not, by any means, confined to musicians, just as the desire for innovative design is not confined to designers. I, for one, cannot play a note on any instrument, and will probably never have the ability to do so, and yet I still have a huge appetite for innovative music.

yea that's more what i meant as well' date=' they don't sound straight like another band but you can get bits of other bands in their sound, i'd certainly add the flaming lips to that list as well. i think they're great though, and they have got their own sound but the point i was trying to make is that [b']it's nigh on impossible to be totally original these days. EVERYTHING has already been done. [ My emphasis. ]

This point is largely true, but I feel that the critical phrase in that statement is "nigh on"I think that innovation is still possible, but it will be at an increasingly subtle level. It's somewhat akin to TV: the step from black and white to colour was massive; the step from analogue to digital much smaller in comparison, from the listeners point of view. It will be largely the same with musicthe innovative leaps will become ever shorter, but will still be there, just in a more subtle form. I don't think that this is the disaster it may seem, however, as those interested in innovative music will largely be discerning enough to notice the differencesin much the same way that a connosieur can tell the difference between two subtly different vintages of the same wine.

I think the real reason we don't see much innovation in music is that we are really spoiled for choice nowadays. It's a bit like people being crap at maths because we have calculcators or why people don't remember phone numbers' date=' because they have a mobile phone. It's not that the technology inhibits creativity, more that option anxiety kicks in. We stick with what makes us comfortable, and there really isn't anything wrong with that. I guess it's complacency I have more of a problem with. And also self-praise where little is due.

As far as Portishead are concerned, from the music I have heard from them, they managed to combine innovation with palatability. Which is no mean feat.[/quote']

I think that this argument is poorly constructed: I think it's very hard to argue that being spoiled for choice would lead to the very conservative musical climate in which we live. Instead, I think that it would breed the oppositeextreme boredom with familiar styles and sounds and a very short attention-span when it came to any innovations. The way I see it, this has not come to pass: most are content to listen to bands they are familiar with, and bands of the same style, than hunt down innovative or different material.

The above symptom comes from both the fundamentally conservative impulses that rule most people and the fact that they are virtually spoon-fed music similar to that which is hawked in Aberdeen.

As for my take on Aberdeen, very few bands interest me. I still possess some kind of perverse fascination with MMW (one which isn't particularly musical), and a strong desire to see AKA The Fox play, as well as an interest in Starfall which I fear is purely one of novelty. Other than these examples, and possibly a few I have forgotten about for the time being, I have no interest in the music scene. I've largely heard/seen most of what is on offer before, and thus have no particular drive to go and see any bands play; a situation compounded by the fact that nearly every band I have seen have turned out to be, at best, mediocre and at worst atrocious.

Bleedthrough is "more song-oriented [than 1999's The Fragile]," says Reznor. "It's much more lean. It's going to be twelve good punches in the faceno fillers, no instrumentals, just straight to the point." (source)

Am I the only one who notices the seeming contradiction in Trent Reznor's above remark to Rolling Stone when held up against his remarks to Kerrang! in the a January, 2002 interview where he said that, "When I'm asked what do I think of a lot of the nu-metal bands that are out there, my response is that it seems really insincere to me. 'I've had a really shitty childhood and I'm really upset and I'm really ugly and I've put a lot of make-up on and I'm harder and faster and my voice sounds more like the cookie monster's than yours does'. To me it all comes across as being comical, as being a parody of itself." (source)

He also said something along the lines that it's harder to create intensity through restraint, and that repeated beatings lead to numbness.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but do "twelve good punches to the face" not seem unrestrained? Or am I merely picking apart what he's saying?

That said, I'm eagerly anticipating Bleedthrough.

Anyone harbouring an interest in how the toys of our youth have been butchered into musical intruments would be well advised to check out the following links:

Naked Intruder

8bitpeoples

9.38khz

Standout examples of the genre include Naked Intruder's The Bad Method (now sadly out-of-print), as well as Nullsleep's The Gameboy Singles 2002 and Trash80's .hologram.

Also, for those interested in retrofuturistic pop music, examine Ladytron's 604 and Printed Circuit's The Adventure Game and Acrobotics.

Edit: Chiptune.com may also be of interest; and whilst not strictly music made with mutated toys, the net-label Observatory Online is a good place to (legally) get free electronic music. (Tree Wave's Cabana EP is especially good.)

Originally posted by Ben Quik:

Of course it was my comments that were picked up on again...I cant help thinking Michael that maybe its bacause of someone we both know that favoured me over you....just a thought!!

If you're referring to Claire, then your thoughts on this matter would be wrong. She's a nice kid, but I have no interest in playing popularity games. She naturally "favoured" you over meyou were her boyfriend after all. And if you're implying what I think you are, then you're wrong again: I have no interest in her in that respect, she's too young.

I don't appreciate your attempt to render my arguments invalid by trying to imply that they were motivated by personal malice and pettiness. For the record, I have no quarrel with you, andbar your incessant "DEESC" and "n00b"I happen to think that you may, actually, be an all right guy.

The reason you were singled-out was because I felt that, of all the comments on this thread, your "get laid" remark was the most childish and pointless; though Jamesy's "nobody understands us" teen-goth schtick came a very close second. Comments like those really detract from any desire I may otherwise have had to go an see MMW play.

I happen to be of the opinion that MMW are one of the better bands within the local "scene". But I think you guys really need to realise that, whilst you may be good, you're not God; and that your seeming arrogance and Jamesy's "nobody understands us" (subtext: we're too complex and deep for you alltoo avant-garde) elitism really make it hard to justify spending money to go see you play.

Originally posted by therandomblonde:

Jeez...i don't know what to say or who i agree with...

I'd say that Rob Karloff seems to be making the most sense... Out of all the (very few) people I've interacted with on this board, he seems to be one of an even smaller number that talks sense.

As for MMW's promotional style, I have to agree that it really does grate; the first few times it's okay, but constant "wow, we're shit hot" posts kind of begin to make me question whether or not they're trying to cover up something.

I listened to a couple of MP3s of the band, "In This Movie I Produce, I Act, I Direct" and "I Know That You Know", and whilst they may be early recordings, they weren't actually too badthey seemed pretty promising, if not particularly ground-breaking. But, taking into account their online anticsespecially posts like, "...i also couldve said New Found Power is a fucking n00b and that wouldve been better but i refrained....obviously havent got laid yet huh?? Jeez...oh well!! Im sure you'll find a life soon huh?"and I can say that I'd be pretty reluctant to go see them live.

There's showmanship which is all very well, but only on-stage, carry that persona off-stage, into a medium like this where subtle nuances of communication such as body-language and tone of voice don't exist, and you risk sounding like a total prick. Do we really need the tin-pot swagger?