monkey

The housing situation isn't exactly great in and around Edinburgh.

Better than Aberdeen though I suspect!!!

Ahh, wisdom.

the Modern Art Gallery is pretty good. I was at the Warhol exhibition a number of years ago, and was able to put my face against a massive screen print of a handgun.

And that's gotta be worth something!

I went to the Salvador Dali exhibition there a few years ago. It was about 28 but worth far more. I was lost for words - and that is uncommon...

Thank you for all the suggestions so far - suggestions for alternative pubs and clubs and good places to chill and eat good food are all gratefully received! I've not started flat hunting yet but will do shortly.

Keep 'em coming!

I've a new job and I'm moving away from the 'deen in October. I've never lived there before so I was wondering what's good about Edinburgh? What do you think are the best places to live, see, do, listen, drink around Edinburgh?

Cheating bastards deserve all they get. AC will still do well despite starting the season -15.

But Inter shall reign supreme! Apparantley they are lining up a move for Trezuget' date=' Ibrahimavic or Toni. They will sign only one but whoever it is will form a deadly partnership with the Emperor and rip up Serie A![/quote']

Trezuget sucked at the World Cup and not just because his Penalty hit the cross bar!

Ah, but you can't shoot your brother repeatedly with a go-cart!

It is expensive I grant you. Did you know the ammo you buy for about 140 for 2000 balls or there abouts they buy for about 29! That is a totally ridiculous and greedy markup.

However if you have your own kit (marker, gas tank, face mask) and live on a farm (or have a very big garden!) you can play for next to nothing! As compressed air or CO2 are in expensive and you can buy your ammo at cost price.

Also, if you have your own stuff, some places also have "drop in days" where you can just turn up and play for 20 and you bring your own ammo and they give you all the compressed air or CO2 you need.

Oh and if you have some thick clothing it really doesn't hurt that much.

Have any of you tried it?

There is something just wonderful about running round a wood shooting other people with paint thrown from a gun at 150 miles an hour! :]

No' date=' not really, there are many paces at which people run a 10K race, some people walk parts of the distance.

The important aspect here is that I am raising money for a charity, in the process of so doing I hope to regain a little bit of fitness and get back into regular running.

Now, if you have a problem with that then I respectfully invite you to fuck off.[/quote']

Hey chill already.

The reason why I asked is it is quite hard to not run for a few months, say since october last year, and then start again from the same level as before. I find if I don't run for a week I feel as if I have not run for a month or more when I run again. Lots of people tend to overestimate their fitness, and thus think they can run such a race without putting in any training at all. I'm not suggesting that is you, just highlighting the need to prepare for the race. People I know who are doing the BH 10k have been running 3-4 times a week for the last month or more in preparation. Thats not about being the fastest on the day, but rather not suffering unnessessarily.

I ran a 10K last October' date=' so it's not quite from scratch.[/quote']

That is a joke right?

I'm trying to get myself fit again' date=' used to compete for the local athletic club when I was younger but then discovered alcohol and fast food.

Unfortunately haven't been able to get out and get training, but that'll change in the next few days.

Doubt I'll do it in under an hour though [/quote']

I run around 6km 3 times a week after work and run between 10 and 12km on a Saturday or Sunday although my aim is to I'm work from 10/12km up to a Half Marathon over the next few weeks. I wouldn't want to run a 10km race from having done nothing, might well do your self some damage...

I got my number' date=' chip and safety pins thru in the post today.

Haven't been out for a jog yet, so a week and a half to try and get some training done.

Just wondering if everyone still wanted to meet up before the race for a photo or two for the galleries etc?[/quote']

I take it you're running the BH 10k at the beach? There are a few running events coming up in Aberdeen over the summer if you like running. I was at the Balmoral 10k on the 30th and am planning to run in the Stonehaven Half Marathon on the 3rd July although that is apparently a killer of a race.

Ephel Duath played that gig did they not? great great band

They did and they were!

I don't want to get into a Dillinger Vs. Poison The Well thing; Poison The well were indeed very good' date=' however it was [b']The Dillinger Escape Plan I went to see. Rather than waste words like some film review i'll just say its one of the best gigs I've been to.

I think one of the central arguments this programme put across is very interesting:

"Should we be worried about the threat from organised terrorism or is it simply a phantom menace being used to stop society from falling apart?"

The programme argues that rather than promising a glowing future many politicians now promise to save us from a terrible threat. Does this actually exist? Are we really in as much danger from terrorism as Western Governments argue?

i wanted to know what contributions you make that make our society and world a better place and contrast it with other people's contributions but once again' date=' you come across as a person who is pro-active in what they do and i was merely taking an interest as a fellow human being in what it is that you do

ASF has no problem passing on information and sharing his brand of politics and his own solutions and thoughts with others so why is it so difficult for yourself to do the same?

you talk like you have many solutions to all these political problems that dog our society and i was merely interested in you explaining your theories of how to tackle these problems regarding the voting process

you don't want to share those with me so there we have it, end of discussion, no need to pursue any more questions if the answers aren't gonna come is there? [/quote']

So you want to hear my theories? But when I posted my theory as regards democracy you said it was unnecessary and I was lecturing you!?! Similarly when did suggested some of the things I had done you said you did not want my CV!?! o_O

As a result I am a little confused as to what you do want, and, call me cynical, I suspect this would simply turn into an argument about what formed a contribution to society and what would make society better. As Im sure you are aware each of these things are very much open to interpretation; what may be seen as beneficial by one group or individual may not be seen so by others.

well go write an essay about it' date=' you clearly have the time on your hands to do it with the amount of tedious holier-than-thou garbage you seem to be spout on this thread over and over again, infrequently of course

if you got all the right answers then go put them into action instead of wasting your time arguing with lesser people like me who vote every 4 years [/quote']

So above you say your interested in my opinions and now their just tedious holier-than-thou garbage. Im sorry but this seems to me a little schizophrenic. If you do want to provide a review if my opinions, like what I think about democracy for example, could you say why you actually think is wrong with them, rather than stupid and insulting comments like that one. But I guess as your not going to respond this doesnt matter.

you clearly have too much time on your hands' date=' some of us have wives and girlfriends to spend time with and have mates to go have a pint down the boozer with or just simply "have better things to do with our time" than sit around discussing this tiresome thread with tiresome people like yourself

the fact i have better things to do with my time will dictate the end of this attempt at a conversation i was having with you, lets just call that my subjective assessment of how boring and tiresome your discussions are right now

i don't think this thread is about discussing anything new at all, i think you're merely looking for arguments and that in itself is why you're so tiresome, you're just going over the same point over and over again, retreading old ground, this subject has been discussed in ten threads

i keep asking "what more is there to be said that hasn't already been said on this thread or any of the other threads?" [/quote']

Well you must have some time on your hands to keep responding! All though I do like the fact you seem to suggest that, because you dont agree with me, It is unlikely I have a wife or girlfriend or mates or at least ones I see anyway!!! Do I have to tell you what is wrong with this? If you cant argue with out adopting childish retorts then why bother? We are (or were) having a discussion, why do you feel the need to make it personal or is this the only way you can respond?

oh dear' date=' you think people are so stupid as to believe a bunch of skinheads harping on about immigration and then go shave their own heads so they can join this motley crew of idiots and start World War 3 or the Fourth Reich or something like that?

bit paranoid innit?

oh sorry, put words in your mouth there again didn't i? [/quote']

Well here you seem to be suggesting that the National Front and similar groups, are not a threat, so if they are not a threat, why did you maintain that stopping the march was playing into their hands [an opinion I disagree with and have done elsewhere and one which you still have not explained]? Surely if they were not a threat this would not matter at all? Again there seems to be some inconsistency in the arguments you post... But I guess as your not going to respond, I will just have to guess at the reason for this.

is being called "tireless" what you would class as an insult these days?' date=' is insomnia really that shameful? lol

have a look at the initial insult again, it was tiresome and irrelevant Doc labelled you. i merely concurred with the insult he wrote about you, or the observation he made about you should i say?

best wishes,

el flosso [/quote']

Well if Im tireless and irrelevant, then I guess you are someone who posts contradictory opinions, and posts daft (and amusing ) personal comments rather than back these up with any kind of constructive argument, and then refuses to take part any more. But then as youre not going to respond I will never know if this is an accurate reflection. Oh well

don't worry i don't blame you' date=' i blame your parents

i am suggesting nothing at all, i think you're trying to seek an "fucking stupid" argument within a "fucking stupid" non-argument and yes i knew it was an Andy Warhol artprint too, if i need an education in the history of pop art, i don't think i will be calling on yourself for a lecture, your lectures are tiresome enough as it is and i usually get enough sleep at nights thanks very much

thanks for your charming reply. your shining wit and political fervour continue to impress me greatly but despite those compliments, i am sure you'll be able to find an argument in there somewhere

best wishes,

el flosso [/quote']

Well dont post about me if you dont want a reply.

Again' date=' isn't Giuliani a bit socially liberal to be the Republican nominee?

Also, looking back through history, barrign JFK it is overwhelmingly the case that Senators do not win presidential elections but governors do.

The reason? Governors have a much firmer grasp of the kind of executive power that the presidency entails, and governors are basically mini-presidents.[/quote']

Thats very true. Being a soldier also helps, America is unusual for being a democracy (well sometimes) that traditionally elects soldiers to high office. There is also Jed Bush who was always considered more likely to run than his brother...

I can't ever see that bill getting voted through. Most Americans would simply not accept an obvious foreigner as their President. Hopefully this doesn't let Arnie in...

I would say that the most likely candidates for the next election would be Hillary Clinton (Democrat) and Rudi Giuliani (Republican)... Which would be a fucking belter to be honest.

But he is American as far as most American are concerned. I'm willing to put money on him being one of the candidates for nomination and it is certain he will be able to raise more money Giuliani...

I saw part one and missed parts two and three' date=' if anyone has recorded the series I would welcome a loan of the video. [/quote']

I'm going to try and buy if possible.

Here are some useful links:

Part I: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/3755686.stm

Part II: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/3951615.stm

PartIII: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/3970901.stm

what channel?

It was a three part Documentry 9pm BBC2 Wednesday nights.

It was I think some of the best, most thought provoking, TV I have ever seen.

Perhaps you should have used the Campbell's Soup one instead?

But then how could I ever argue about soup with any authority!?!

you know what i find very amusing Mr. Monkey' date=' you have a picture of Mao Tse-Tung as your avatar, wasn't Chairman Mao a person whose staunch left-wing ideals turned him into a dictator who tried to make everyone think and act and live the same way and ended up killing lots of people in adopting such a process?

there's democracy in action eh?, forcing people at gunpoint or threatening them with execution to think the same as you!

i can never understand why Chairman Mao is held up to be some kind of socialist hero when he was no better than Pol Pot, anyone who was regarded as an intellectual or who was wealthy in some way or were just someone who would possibly be identified as a threat to any of the ideals he tried to dictate over people would be executed or imprisoned!

haha and of course other things he also did was force people to work in mines or in fields and if they wouldn't do so, they would be executed or imprisoned for being "dissidents", he also if my memory serves me correctly from the documentaries i have seen about him, also closed down schools and universities and forced people to either becoming farmers or soldiers or bodyguards to protect his government and keep him in power hahahhahahahaha!

i love the irony in your avatar matey[/quote']

No I think you will find I have an Andy Warhol picture as my Avatar. But thank you for the potted history of Mao. And anyway you seem to be suggesting that I cannot discuss democracy or am a hypocrite for doing so because of my Avatar. I have to say, thats is just a fucking stupid argument.

you say it has no relevance to the discussion of activism so please tell me why you have involved yourself in the arguments below as well as the arguments that aren't about activism in this thread? and if continuously arguing about such subjects bothers you' date=' as it clearly seems to, then why involve yourself in those arguments in the tiresome fashion you do?

if its none of my business then you shouldn't mention things about yourself you don't want to talk about then should you?, its your problem mate, not mine [/quote']

Answering a question with a question. Very good. You still have not told me why it is so important to this discussion for you to know what I have done "to make the world a better place" and why I should tell you. Could you please tell me exactally why this is so important to this discussion please?

you were arguing the point about the voting process that various people like myself discussed' date=' i never realised discussing voting was being obsessed about it, my wrong

i don't think you're in any position to talk about talking about subjects obsessively anyway, you've been continuously talking about the National Front on not one but two threads have you not?

no-one said democracy was simply about voting, you're looking for arguments that don't exist and fighting with your own shadow [/quote']

Both you and Doc refered to voting as is it was itself democracy, and as if the two concepts could be used almost interchangably. I was suggesting this was a symplistic view of democracy and that a system of voting alone does not constitute democracy. This is an obvious point and I fail to see why you dont recognise this. It is also why I posted a definition of democracy. As for Obsessively posting about the National Front? If you actually counted the number of times I have posted in all the threads about the NF, you would see that you have posted fairly infrequently and have generally posted about issues that often arise out of the discussion. So this claim is frankly laughable.

they still need people to vote don't they?' date=' the people vote to put who they want in power don't they?, or are you saying that we have no involvement in the voting process at all now?

whichever way you look at it, the country needs a system in place for it to run and maintain itself in some form or another[/quote']

Again you seem to almost deliberately put words in my mouth and missunderstand what I have said. No where did I say that we have no involvement in the voting process. I challange you to show me where I said. I did not even imply that was the case. How you can even think I have suggested I have said this I have no idea. I have simply argued that democracy is FAR FAR MORE THAN SIMPLY VOTING!

i asked you to explain what it is you do and once again' date=' you skim past the point to try and dilly dally around the subject by arguing about nothing at all [/quote']

Again tell me why is it so important for you to know what I do?

i don't need to post any definitions because everyone has a different definition of what democracy is to them. please explain to me what i am so wrong in? did i post anything where i claimed i was right?

This is silly' date=' if everyone has a different definition of democracy how is a consensus ever possible? Obviously there must be some shared characteristics, norms and values. In any discussion of democracy you will obviously express your own understanding of the term through the views you express, therefore, it makes more sense tho make your understanding of the concept explicit. Hence when writing an essay you carefully define the concepts you use or refer to in order to make your reader fully aware of the argument your making.

i doubt any moderators here would allow the National Front or their sympathisers to post on here anyway so thats a pretty useless answer to that question. Publicity can be generate in positive or negative ways, the main aim is to provoke a reaction or a response from their actions and thats all those groups are concerned about, they want people to pay attention to them because no-one will ever take their brand of politics seriously.

the fact of the matter is that people like yourself have paid them so much attention already for a matter thats been resolved, this thread was about stopping the march and so it has been stopped, what more is there to talk about?

no, my point was that these threads were started so people could find ways to stop the march happening, it never happened - game over, end of story and goodnight Vienna, case closed yeah? cool, now get off your high horse.

It is clearly not the end of the issue as the National Front still exist and still wish to organise in Aberdeen. These threads were not started simply to stop the march but to stop the National Front marching, the opposition is to the NF and their views and goals not simply the NF marching on one particular day. This is what dictates the end of any discussion not, your subjective assessment of when we should stop discussing them.

Their main aim is not simply to provoke a reaction, despite what you seem to think. In fact their aim is, like all political organisations, to recruit new members and to disseminate their views, and through so doing get people to think about the world the way they do. You say no one will ever take their brand of politics seriously but this is also clearly not true as any history of the 20th Century would suggest.

As for trying to insult me by calling me tireless and irrelevant; grow the fuck up.

Flossie T Sheep: - Thank you for a comprehensive (!) response to the comments I posted. Although I have to say I disagree with almost everything you said!

You say you never asked for my CV but asked what I had done that makes our society better. It is pointless to post what I think I have done to make society better because 1. As I have already told you better is wholly subjective concept, 2. It has no relevance to a discussion of activism (and if it does please tell me what relevance it has), 3. We will just end up arguing over whether particular activities do or do not make society better, and 4. Its is quite simply none of your business.

On your point of voting and for the last time: I never said I abhorred voting as you say I do. You seem to be obsessed with the process of voting, and have clearly misunderstood what I have said, as you suggest I say all kinds of things that (having reread my own posts) are clearly not opinions I have expressed. I will try and answer each of these in turn.

You say that a democratic system ultimately it comes down to peoples own freedom of choice as to who they cast their vote with [for?]. This is a wholly simplistic view of democracy as I have repeatedly tried to suggest. And if you have the chance to read anything of the vast literature on democracy you will see that this is the case.

Democracy is not about voting. Voting is the simply the most obvious and least effective process by which people express their political opinions. Democracy also involves a huge number of other complex processes that allow us the people to more or less effectively express our views. Democracy is also a culture, and in fact many argue culture is the most important part of democracy.

To illustrate this point take Iraq and Afghanistan: If there were elections in Iraq tomorrow would Iraq be a democracy? Afghanistan has just had elections does that make it a democracy? The answer is unfortunately no. You cannot simply create a democracy by imposing an electoral system on a society. This suggests that there is something more to democracy than voting. Which has been my point all along. If democracy as about government by the people for the people then simply voting every four years IS NOT DEMOCRACY. All the social and political institutions in any democracy must CONSTANTLY involve us the people in that process.

for the record' date=' isn't helping people with making their decisions as to who they vote for taking people's democratic right to vote for whoever they want to vote for a bit of a flawed and fruitless process?, its like saying "here, i think you need a hand or a little push to who i think you should vote for"[/quote']

This sentence seems a little irrelevant as nowhere did I say that I helped, or helped others help, people with making the decisions as to who they vote for. I said I had been involved in a process that helped find out the issues and opinions of communities by inviting them to express their views to elected and no elected officials. In order to help establish and maintain more effective and responsive government and government in which, us the people, have a direct say in the decisions taken at a local level AND NOT SIMPLY ONCE EVERY FOUR YEARS!

Thats your own definition of democracy as how you perceive it to be' date=' once again you're preaching and showing this "i'm right and you're wrong" attitude that i find extremely suspicious and a bit creepy [/quote']

I posted a definition of democracy because we were, in part, having a conversation about democracy. If you dont agree with the definition then post a different one. If I have an im right and youre wrong attitude then its, quite simply, because I do think your wrong. However I am, unlike some, happy to debate these issues and tell you why I think you are wrong, and happy to hear you think im wrong.

i will involve myself in any discussion i see fit to involve myself in' date=' don't dictate to me what i can and can't talk about, i just find it odd that you can seem to think you're a higher authority than anyone else when it comes to such discussions because you think that involving yourself with activist groups makes you more right or correct than anyone else on a subject of interest such as the National Front. [/quote']

I never said you couldnt involve yourself in any discussion you wanted to, but I did think it a little odd for you suggested that this discussion was pointless by posting/contributing to it! Also I never suggested I was a higher authority as you put it, I suggested that I disagreed with your expressed opinions. I also NEVER SAID I WAS AN ACTIVIST and have thus NEVER ONCE SAID THAT BEING INVOLVED IN SUCH GROUPS MADE ME MORE CORRECT THAN ANYONE ELSE! Show me exactly where it is that I said this.

the main point i raised is that they were seeking to garner as much publicity and outrage from their endeavours to march in Aberdeen and judging by the amount of threads written about the NF' date=' i think they succeeded in their efforts. well done, you played straight into their hands mate. [/quote']

I think that it is laughable to suggest that threads on aberdeen-music.com are a source of publicity for the National Front. These threads have been almost exclusively negative about that group and been discussions of that possible publicity. If you think that me posting negative things about them is playing into their hands then... well Im completely mystified as to your logic there. o_O

there's always going to be fascism or such fundamentalist extremist elements in the world no matter how much shouting and placard-waving and protests you involve yourself in' date=' you're fighting a losing battle to try and stop it and besides why would you seek to put these factions underground anyway?, isn't it better to keep them in sight so you can identify who they are to keep your eye on them in case they cause trouble and violence against the people they hate? [/quote']

I completely agree there will always be fascism and other fundamentalist extremist elements. As for fighting a losing battle to try and stop it thats just ridiculous. They must constantly be tackled and challenged for their views. Elements of the NF and similar organisations are always underground and most members have histories of violence. I dont understand why you dont see the contradictory nature of arguing both that I give them publicity by posting on a thread about them and at the same time recognising that it is important to keep your eye on them.

I am I think arguing with my brain. I try an put forward reasoned arguments, if I disagree it is because I fail to see the logic of the argument posted, or fail to see the rational behind it.

I look forward to your reply.

You really are too cynical for your own good sometimes.

Some people are not in politics to simply push buttons and say popular things. Granted there are plenty who do nothing but give politics a bad name' date=' but to tar all with the same brush is no better that the people who talk about all young people being loutish thugs[/quote']

Sorry how can you be "too cynical" ? I don't understand!

What I've been saying all along. Hear hear.

So you wont answer any of the points I raised or the questions I asked because you dont think my spelling or grammar is up to scratch? Well that is very big of you. You must be proud of your self. You can spell, well done. Now all you need to do is learn how to use your language skills to actually defend and explain the opinions you express on this public forum.