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All gone to pot?


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If i'm allowed to fuck myself in the ass with a mace, then i should be allowed to smoke a plant that grows naturally.

So it doesn't make you any healthier, in an age of terrorism and declining natural resources you would think they would focus on something slightly more important. People live too fucking long anyway.

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At the end of the day, it's the choice of the individual(obviously), but what i mean is, no matter what the health risks may or may not be, people are going to make up their own mind on the matter. I don't see the big issue with legalising it, i mean, it's not like it being illegal affects much, it's not exactly hard to get hold of, and people quite openly talk about it..

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I see where your coming from Alex. Its more that TV Tanned explained that Cnnabis is bad for you. Wow' date=' em.... thats amazing. Is alcohol less evil? Doubt it.[/quote']

what about where i'm coming from eh? Not get that? Shut up about evil, how can either of them be evil? You didn't even make a point there. You just congradulated everyone on being ace, which is all you ever seem to do. Stop repeating yourself, the reason no one is replying is because you are stupid.

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Demon cleaner, you do not know what you are talking about. You missed the point of my post and the mention of jazz. To quote the mars volta "everyone should be on lsd" they are also pot users. I didnt say every musician smokes or takes marijuana BUT its a fair point to say classical music and contemporary (as it were) would ever be as good without it. You obviously dont know anything about the true effect or much about it at all. This is clear, especially from a musicians perspective on the benefits of pot.

Cannabis' link to mental problems are no more than if they are alredy present in the individual anyway. Do you think depressed people should drink? i dont as it has a negative effect on them. Like i said, WE should be able to control and decide what we do with our own bodies. I dont think everyone should smoke but for the people who do use they should have a easy life with it, like other LEGAL (if it was their case today.. they would not be) substance users.

MARIJUANA could get a decent decrim or even legalization (sometime) if people would find out the facts and get off their asses. Our half assed, broken to shit country and "democracy" would work to a certain exstent..but really sitting ranting about it on here wont get anything done. :)

EDIT:Marijuana, in its purest form is a plant that resides on earth not man made.

Alcohol: man formulated and its its best form a good poison. Formented. But you should all be able to deduce this if you just THINK.

Can you die from over using pot? no. Has it had recorded death? NO.

Does alcohol kill millions world wide every year? yes.

It is not ignorant to say a pure grass joint (dependant on strain) is not as bad as a cigarette is obvious. Does it contain poisons and tar etc etc etc..no.

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I see where your coming from Alex. Its more that TV Tanned explained that Cnnabis is bad for you. Wow' date=' em.... thats amazing. Is alcohol less evil? Doubt it.[/quote']

..they both alter your mind in one way or another..so both could be said to be good/bad..depending on how you "react" to them..

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However it seems clear that you are just another fucking hippy who takes it for recreational usage.

Elements of truth indeed but whats your point?

I guess if i just drank that would be ok. Then you wouldnt say "youre just another drinker, drinking for recreational purpose" because that would make sense. Like i hinted earlier.. You are blindly ignorant about the drug and the politics that go along with it and further more the principles which reside with this arguement.

Exactly how could Britain get much worse? do you think we are new and developing?. After a good hefty mortgage of the world and people being born then moving away, what exactly makes anything about our societly *that* good? It seems you should stop with your trisha worth sociology.

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demon cleaner, are you named after the famed and awesome kyuss song?

and in general i don't think that study quoted at the start of the thread can really be deemed comprehensive. for a start shouldn't they have studied the same amount of non-smokers as smokers? and even then a study of 54 smokers isn't particularly broad. also it doesn't say how it affected those who smoked only a small amount compared to the people who smoked a large amount. surely there would be a difference if there was a definite effect.

i am not saying that marijuana is safe. i'm just trying to point out that maybe we shouldn't get too worked up about this particular report. anyone with a brain knows that smoking shit loads of weed isn't going to do your mental well being a whole lot of good(everyone i know becomes more forgetful and a little more worried when smoking pot regularly) but the long term effects have yet to be comprehensively proven. it is no worse than alchohol because alchohol is an incredibly damaging substance and by all means we should have the right to ingest a plant that grows naturally. but let's not pretend it's harmless eh? it just makes people look like dicks.

i think we should be wary about using bands as examples, cedric and omar also took crack on a regular basis but that doesn't mean it's safe and we should all go do it. bottom line is that if you want to take pot, take pot and it should be left to people to choose that not the government and if you don't then don't but you shouldn't hassle those that do cause it's their choice.

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If people decide to do things, then their gonna do them no matter what. In that respect it would be better if cannabis was legal and safely available rather than its current status of illegal and grossly overpriced. Legalising cannabis would also get filthy resin off the street, as there would be no need for it anymore. It worked for the dutch, are we so much more clever than them?

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Cannabis' link to mental problems are no more than if they are alredy present in the individual anyway. Do you think depressed people should drink? i dont as it has a negative effect on them. Like i said' date=' WE should be able to control and decide what we do with our own bodies. I dont think everyone should smoke but for the people who do use they should have a easy life with it, like other LEGAL (if it was their case today.. they would not be) substance users.[/quote']

I agree that people should be able to make informed decisions, but I honestly do not think you are in posession of the facts. For example, cannabis use is a risk factor for the onset of schizophrenia both in vulnerable people and in those without any prior history. Current research is trying to work out if this is a causal relationship, but the implication is that sustained cannabis use can induce psychotic disorders in people not previously diagnosed as at risk. So we're not talking about people already identified with mental problems smoking and just exasberating their situation, we're talking about people who use cannabis developing symptoms that they previously did not display.

There's a fantastic review in Progress In Neuro-Pharmacology & Biochemical Psychiatry by Kalant (2004) that describes in detail the conclusions of the abundance of studies into both schizophrenia and other mental issues (including the increased incidence of depression amongst pot smokers). The problem with the type of studies used is that they, by their very nature, cannot prove without doubt that there is a direct cause and effect relationship between cannabis smoking and mental disorders. They do, however, indicate strongly and without doubt that there is a significant relationship between pot smoking and an increase in psychiatric problems.

While I'm on a roll... Cannabis smoking increases symptoms of wheezing, coughing, phlegm and shortness of breath even when you correct for tabacco smoking - Basically, smoking pot screws you more than smoking tabacco (Fligiel et al, 1997. Published in the Chest journal, it's just one example of a dozen or so papers showing the same conclusion). There's also evidence showing a causal role for cannabis smoking and cancers of the head and neck. Cannabis smokers appear to have a 3 fold increase in risk compared to non-smokers. The risk for tabacco smokers rose from a 10-fold risk to a 36-fold risk if they smoked cannabis regularily too (Sidney et al, 1997. Published in Cancer Causes Control). As for cannabis ingestion, it's not a common way of taking the drug so there is less available evidence to examine - Which isn't to say it's safe, just that there's not enough data to draw any conclusions from.

MARIJUANA could get a decent decrim or even legalization (sometime) if people would find out the facts and get off their asses. Our half assed, broken to shit country and "democracy" would work to a certain exstent..but really sitting ranting about it on here wont get anything done. :)

You've berated several people in this thread for not knowing the facts, but I personally think you're just as ignorant. I spent just two hours looking through Medline, Pubmed and Embase to find a substantial amount of medical data on the detrimental effects of cannabis use. Your last paragraph here seems to indicate you view the battle for marijuana legalisation as some sort of politcal agenda, a way to undermine 'democracy' as you put it, so I sincerely doubt you have a balanced, objective view on the subject.

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If people decide to do things' date=' then their gonna do them no matter what. In that respect it would be better if cannabis was legal and safely available rather than its current status of illegal and grossly overpriced. Legalising cannabis would also get filthy resin off the street, as there would be no need for it anymore. It worked for the dutch, are we so much more clever than them?[/quote']

the dutch use LOTS of resin. And its not like grass is better? its all dependant on the type. They both have their good and bad sides. The dutch are now producing large amounts of bubblehash (the water/ice extraction method of the resin glands) that makes almost "see through" resin with almost no impurites as its pure thc resin glands. And this can be done with anysort of grass or mash. How cool.

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what about where i'm coming from eh? Not get that? Shut up about evil' date=' how can either of them be evil? You didn't even make a point there. You just congradulated everyone on being ace, which is all you ever seem to do. Stop repeating yourself, the reason no one is replying is because you are stupid.[/quote']

1) Yes I "get" where your coming from and you have relevant points

2) I didnt make a point, true, at 2am after a heavy drinking session at Jakes, what do you expect?

3) I didnt congratulate everybody on being "ace"

4) I dont care if people reply to me

5) Im not stupid, I did well at College.

Grow the fuck up Jimr :rolleyes:

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demon cleaner' date=' are you named after the famed and awesome kyuss song?

and in general i don't think that study quoted at the start of the thread can really be deemed comprehensive. for a start shouldn't they have studied the same amount of non-smokers as smokers? and even then a study of 54 smokers isn't particularly broad. also it doesn't say how it affected those who smoked only a small amount compared to the people who smoked a large amount. surely there would be a difference if there was a definite effect.

i am not saying that marijuana is safe. i'm just trying to point out that maybe we shouldn't get too worked up about this particular report. anyone with a brain knows that smoking shit loads of weed isn't going to do your mental well being a whole lot of good(everyone i know becomes more forgetful and a little more worried when smoking pot regularly) but the long term effects have yet to be comprehensively proven. it is no worse than alchohol because alchohol is an incredibly damaging substance and by all means we should have the right to ingest a plant that grows naturally. but let's not pretend it's harmless eh? it just makes people look like dicks.

i think we should be wary about using bands as examples, cedric and omar also took crack on a regular basis but that doesn't mean it's safe and we should all go do it. bottom line is that if you want to take pot, take pot and it should be left to people to choose that not the government and if you don't then don't but you shouldn't hassle those that do cause it's their choice.[/quote']

Yes Dave, i am named after the Kyuss song. I remember buying "welcome to sky valley" from one up bearing the sticker "stoner pioneers". Irony eh? haha

You're absolutely right to say it isnt a comprehensive study, more research needs to be done, but i base my point on the fact that the benefits of it havent been proved. If it is clinically proven to help relieve pain without the addiction or high element, then great. But until then i am sceptical.

Maybe i am being silly but i appear to have more concern for the human race than others here. I am sensible and i enjoy a drink but i dont get violent or twattish when i drink. The facts are if alcohol is condsidered bad and dangerous then cannabis should be in the same bracket. Alcohol is legal, thats a fact. But i dont think legalising cannabis would improve the situation of health etc.

Xrobb may i remind you you have the right to ingest deadly nightshade too. Thats a natural plant. Go on, try it!

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Exactly how could Britain get much worse? do you think we are new and developing?. After a good hefty mortgage of the world and people being born then moving away' date=' what exactly makes anything about our societly *that* good? It seems you should stop with your trisha worth sociology.[/quote']

It would be much worse. You havent thought through the practacalities. What age group would you legalise it for? would there be cafes where people could go and have a whale of a time? Would there be licensing laws like alcohol? Its not practical and its not gonna happen. I dont want a country where 24/7 id be forced to encounter stoner idiots everywhere i go. Children would go take pot instead of going to school etc. A trivial point perhaps but a real one - and before you say "oh there are underage drinkers too". Im talking about not FURTHERING social problems.

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It is not ignorant to say a pure grass joint (dependant on strain) is not as bad as a cigarette is obvious. Does it contain poisons and tar etc etc etc..no.

Of course smoke from a pure grass joint contains poisons and tar. I would really like to know where people pick up this bizarre misconception that somehow tobacco smoke is evil but smoke from any other burning plant-matter is completely harmless.

You said earlier on that you think smoking weed has somehow improved you, but I'd like to know what state you were in before this "improvement" because you don't seem to be able to hold a train of thought and construct a coherent argument in your posts.

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There's a fantastic review in Progress In Neuro-Pharmacology & Biochemical Psychiatry by Kalant (2004) that describes in detail the conclusions of the abundance of studies into both schizophrenia and other mental issues (including the increased incidence of depression amongst pot smokers). The problem with the type of studies used is that they' date=' by their very nature, cannot prove without doubt that there is a direct cause and effect relationship between cannabis smoking and mental disorders. They do, however, indicate strongly and without doubt that there is a significant relationship between pot smoking and an increase in psychiatric problems.[/quote']

I would entirely like to read or find out about such studies underway. I would like to know the atmosphere in which these are based on. I personally CAN see how people using the drug can and very well could fall into depression and/or worse mental health problems. But i feel such things are very dependant on the individual and the circumstances that its taken. Like i said, i dont believe it doesnt have its negatives but again they fall to the "self". I just think that the choice and information should be there and readily available for people that may wish to use the drug, in whatever form or manner. Alcohol consmption is surely as much of a factor in these problems as marijuana could be. I know they are not comparable as such but if formented vegtables can be sold legally then so should organic pot be, leaving the choice up to the individual and letting them decide if they can deal with the effects it.

While I'm on a roll... Cannabis smoking increases symptoms of wheezing' date=' coughing, phlegm and shortness of breath even when you [b']correct for tabacco smoking - Basically, smoking pot screws you more than smoking tabacco (Fligiel et al, 1997. Published in the Chest journal, it's just one example of a dozen or so papers showing the same conclusion). There's also evidence showing a causal role for cannabis smoking and cancers of the head and neck. Cannabis smokers appear to have a 3 fold increase in risk compared to non-smokers. The risk for tabacco smokers rose from a 10-fold risk to a 36-fold risk if they smoked cannabis regularily too (Sidney et al, 1997. Published in Cancer Causes Control). As for cannabis ingestion, it's not a common way of taking the drug so there is less available evidence to examine - Which isn't to say it's safe, just that there's not enough data to draw any conclusions from.

The text in bold, i was unsure of what you meant.

I am going to find the Fligiel paper. When you say it increases symptoms of wheezing and coughing etc what are the conditions again? i think marijuana is a tough drug to research due to the many ways of consuming it, using it, producing it etc.. each with there own + and -'s. Ingesting it is simply uncommon due to the way in which its sold, produced or the illegal aspect of it. I would quite happy not smoke ever again if i could wake up and eat a marijuana laced tracker bar. Doesnt mixing cannabis with tobacco cause extremely worse carciogenic(sp?) effects, i believe it increases the dangers dramatically doesnt it?. I just want to know the method in which the cannabis is being consumed for these various research. What about vaporizing it?

I resent the ignorant comment by the way and in no way shape or form think i know everything about it, nor does anyone for that matter. But i take a keen interest in finding out the relevant facts, good or bad. I am open to the pros and cons of it. I have only berated people taking a very stubborn and narrowminded approach to it all.

Maybe i am ignorant, but i do NOT see how smoking pure grass could ever rival the health risks of smoking a cigarette. And thats just general "grass", what about it it were organically grown? it is a plant and there are ways of harnessing the qualities in it without serious health problems.

p.s i do not wish to undermine our democracy( i dont need to) and i have no political agenda other than having the right to my own body and wishes.

I am most interested in what you are saying, indeed.

:)

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Of course smoke from a pure grass joint contains poisons and tar. I would really like to know where people pick up this bizarre misconception that somehow tobacco smoke is evil but smoke from any other burning plant-matter is completely harmless.

You said earlier on that you think smoking weed has somehow improved you' date=' but I'd like to know what state you were in before this "improvement" because you don't seem to be able to hold a train of thought and construct a coherent argument in your posts.[/quote']

No, i do not fail to see that. I fail to see how it can be compared with a pack of lambert and butlers..of course poisons are being produced. The butane from your lighter causes damage to your health!. I just think that the smoking aspect of it is being rivalled with that of cigarettes.

In what way am i lacking coherence by the way? If you are in some way suggesting i cant argue from a logical base..i resent that also. :p

I am open to any information or arguements that arent just saying "weed fries you min"

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It would be much worse. You havent thought through the practacalities. What age group would you legalise it for? would there be cafes where people could go and have a whale of a time? Would there be licensing laws like alcohol? Its not practical and its not gonna happen. I dont want a country where 24/7 id be forced to encounter stoner idiots everywhere i go. Children would go take pot instead of going to school etc. A trivial point perhaps but a real one - and before you say "oh there are underage drinkers too". Im talking about not FURTHERING social problems.

What about Amsterdam? switzerland? where it is very accepted and lets not forget the very open and liberal vancouver. :)

Its just a case of finding the right restrictions on it. Kids could drink instead of going to school couldnt they? but most dont. Its simply having some trust and "faith" in people. I really dont see how it could FURTHER our problems. Stoners arent idiots, idiots are idiots and they smoke marijuana. Keeping things illegal and restricted is not benefitting anyone. Its hypocritical to say that taking choice away from people is reducing social ills.

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What about Amsterdam? switzerland? where it is very accepted and lets not forget the very open and liberal vancouver. :)

Its just a case of finding the right restrictions on it. Kids could drink instead of going to school couldnt they? but most dont. Its simply having some trust and "faith" in people. I really dont see how it could FURTHER our problems. Stoners arent idiots' date=' idiots are idiots and they smoke marijuana. Keeping things illegal and restricted is not benefitting anyone. Its hypocritical to say that taking choice away from people is reducing social ills.[/quote']

The Swiss and Dutch have a fundamentally different mentality to us, you should understand that. There is not the excess culture that we have here that would go into overdrive if cannavis was legalised.

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The Swiss and Dutch have a fundamentally different mentality to us' date=' you should understand that. There is not the excess culture that we have here that would go into overdrive if cannavis was legalised.[/quote']

thats a little paranoid i think. You been smoking the dope laddy?

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