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drunkenmonkey

shit bouncers at henry j's

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Originally posted by Cammy

sometimes it's the only way to teach drunken asses a lesson.

But its not their place to do so....we have a legal system that dishes out the correct punishment, if a bouncer gives anyone a kicking it makes them as bad as the the guy getting the kicking, and they are breaking the law....dont get me wrong, I gave a few guys a slap during my bouncing days but its nothing Im proud of, other than this time when.......no im not proud!!

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what a head fry!

ok so bouncers sometime may have to be a little heavy handed to get the drunks out but NOTHING gives them the right to take them up a back alley and give them a beating...

1. Their job is to ensure the safety of the staff and punters IN THE CLUB,

2. once they are out of the club the bouncer may inform CCTV through the radios to keep and eye on them and to give a desciption of the culprit to the other bouncers for the WHOLE CITY as they are all linked up to the same frequency

3. as soon as the cluprit has left the property involved it is up to CCTV and the police if need be to take care of them

4. The guy involved, plus many other of the assholes who get chucked out of clubs are too smashed out of their faces to defend themselves,

5. Bouncers are there to ensure safety in clubs and pubs and to stop trouble, not make it.

6. All this abuse backwards and forwards from one doorman company to the other is just stooping to exactly the same level as the people you throw out, fighting and threats and abuse!

7. Bouncers, regardless of which company you work for or which door you work on should be working together to protect the innocent and get rid of the scum (usually if not always NEDS!)

So mushulu/henry J bouncers let it drop, theres nothing left to argue about, drunken monkey saw something he thought wrong and did the right thing, if you see a fight, you break it up dont you? If its a bad fight the police and CCTV are involved and thats just what drunken monkey did

And i dont care about that unwritten rule crap that you dont grass on each other maybe some of the bouncers in aberdeen dont have morales but one of them does and it took alot for him to do what he thought was right.

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I think the original point was that it wasn`t actually a fight....

If you read back you`ll see that the Police viewed the CCTV cameras and saw absolutely nothing untoward.

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FYI definition of underage

It may not be common knowledge but people of 14 years and over are legally permitted to be in a bar provided they are not drinking alcohol.

Personally I prefer not to have doormen, so we don't. There has only been 1 incidence of violence in the past year, although I do occasionally errr... persuade arseholes to leave. Quickly. Or famous quote:

"You could at least have given us a warning1"

"That was the warning. What part of it are you struggling to come to terms with?"

We also display the following legally required notice in a prominent place:

"The bar staff reserve the right to beat the shit out of you."

After hours down the harbour - different rules apply. We would certainly not resort to beating anyone up unless we'd run out of quick dry cement or the tide was out. Concrete jeans, cyanide, TNT ;)

BTW this post is entirely tongue in cheek. Nearly.

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Re: what a head fry!

Originally posted by pixie:

ok so bouncers sometime may have to be a little heavy handed to get the drunks out but NOTHING gives them the right to take them up a back alley and give them a beating...

1. Their job is to ensure the safety of the staff and punters IN THE CLUB,

2. once they are out of the club the bouncer may inform CCTV through the radios to keep and eye on them and to give a desciption of the culprit to the other bouncers for the WHOLE CITY as they are all linked up to the same frequency

3. as soon as the cluprit has left the property involved it is up to CCTV and the police if need be to take care of them

4. The guy involved, plus many other of the assholes who get chucked out of clubs are too smashed out of their faces to defend themselves,

5. Bouncers are there to ensure safety in clubs and pubs and to stop trouble, not make it.

6. All this abuse backwards and forwards from one doorman company to the other is just stooping to exactly the same level as the people you throw out, fighting and threats and abuse!

7. Bouncers, regardless of which company you work for or which door you work on should be working together to protect the innocent and get rid of the scum (usually if not always NEDS!)

So mushulu/henry J bouncers let it drop, theres nothing left to argue about, drunken monkey saw something he thought wrong and did the right thing, if you see a fight, you break it up dont you? If its a bad fight the police and CCTV are involved and thats just what drunken monkey did

And i dont care about that unwritten rule crap that you dont grass on each other maybe some of the bouncers in aberdeen dont have morales but one of them does and it took alot for him to do what he thought was right.

You seem to be missing a couple of things....1 the guy went on to cause trouble elsewhere (not the actions of someone who has just been beaten up)....2 drunkenmonkey has made no futher comment since Rob got involved (indicating he has no futher proof that the guy got a hiding)

Can you explain your no 6 further...am I missing something?

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Well all I can say is that I have been going to henry j's and Moshulu since i can remember and I would never say that those guys are doing any thing but their job. They have always been very friendly to me and all my mates so I find this whole thing very hard to believe. They have been around for a while so why would they start beating up people now? It probably looked worse than it really was. I still have a lot of respect for the bouncers so :finger:

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i think YOU missed something

6. All this abuse backwards and forwards from one doorman company to the other is just stooping to exactly the same level as the people you throw out, fighting and threats and abuse!

and about the guy going on to cause trouble elsewhere... that is exactly why the doormen of henry j's and moshulu and every other door have radios linked to CCTV, to radio it in so CCTV can keep and eye on them and warn other doorstaff about them as i explained previously

'2. once they are out of the club the bouncer may inform CCTV through the radios to keep and eye on them and to give a desciption of the culprit to the other bouncers for the WHOLE CITY as they are all linked up to the same frequency

3. as soon as the cluprit has left the property involved it is up to CCTV and the police if need be to take care of them'

so why didnt the henry J bouncers do that? it is what they are told to do in training and by emplyers isnt it?

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another point i have to make is about the police being involved.

If the police had been notified then drunken monkey would have been asked for a statement regardless of what the CCTV showed as it is a major offence for a bouncer to abuse his position as such. Even if the CCTV showed nothing and the police had viewed it then drunken monkey would have been notified and possibly done for wasting police time so either way drunken monkey would know about it if the police had become involved.

I also have spent noteably my latter childhood in moshulu ( cos ive only been in once or twice since i actually turned of age) and found the doorstaff to be friendly however some can be quite sleazy especially if u show any more flesh than your ankles! This is the same howver at most of the doors in aberdeen so im not singling them out specifically im just saying that they dont smell of roses as much as some of you say. Yes moshulu is a cool place and should be defended cos there isnt many other places with good cheap drink, good music and mainly good people but every good bunch has a bad egg and thats the point im trying to make.

Thasts why the system is f*cked. Because people dont like hearing the truth and would rather defend the ways things seem rather than accept the truth and accept that nice people doesnt always mean innocent people. Justice is warped by peoples opinions and not on what actually happens. F*ck the system!

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Unfortunately

Unfortunately it is likely to be a condition HJBs license that they have doormen. There's not a lot they can do about that. In my opinion the standard of doormen has improved noticably since the governing regulations were introduced. However things are never going to be perfect.

Both doormen and bar staff have to face drunk people as part of their job. The vast majority of people are great... but there are a small minority that become obnoxious once they've had a drink... then there are the even smaller minority that become agrressive or even violent.

One of a bars duties is to provide a safe environment for people to have a good time. This means limiting the nuisance. The easiest way to do this is not to admit them in the first place. This can be dauting - imagine facing down a boozy stag night of 18 guys looking for trouble? Even if there are 2 or more bouncers this takes guts.

Should a nuisance slip through the net, then it presents a bigger problem because there is the issue of any drinks that have been purchased (and they may be holding glassware in their hand) then trying to persuade them to leave peacefully, and manouvering them toward the door.

No ammount of training can mitigate for how a drunk person will behave, so there is always the danger of things getting out of hand. This job takes a lot of patience and careful phrasing.

I'm not commenting on the incident mentioned in this thread because i wasn't there. All I'm trying to do is help impart my experience of this type of problem.

As time marches on you are likely to see the nuisance factor reduce as the neds come to realise that HJBs is an alternative bar and not somewhere that caters for their ilk.

On the subject of underagers, like I stated above, a bar may choose to admit anyone 14 and older, but they must ensure that they do not sell drink to anyone under 18. I'm not exactly sure how this applies to a club but I believe clubs can apply for childrens certificates, where they must demonstrate practices that would ensure those under 18 were not served alcohol.

I don't believe that bars should make a blanket over 18 policy because it is good practice for bar staff to ID people that appear under 18 regardless of whether they gained entry to the premises or not!

If someone aged under 18 entered the Moorings and attempted to get served alcohol we would escort them to the door. However if they approached the bar and volunteered the fact that they were 14 or over, but under 18 and would only be drinking soft drinks, then provided their behaviour was judged appropriately mature we'd consider letting them stay. There are circumstances where certain activity may be considered Cert 18 (mosh pits for instance) where it may be inappropriate to admit people under 18.

Hope this helps to build some understanding between you the valued customers and us the (hopefully) loved venues.

:cheers:

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Dr Drake say's...

I will take this opportunity to proffesionaly remove Dr Drake's from any connection with the origin of this thread.

Regarding doorstaff... I am legally required to have them on the premises from 11pm. I use an agency, which means I am not in complete control of who will be on my door on a given night.

I will up to this hour and beyond, as has happened, deal with most situations that arise myself... There is no substitute for common sense, dialogue and whenever possible, respect... (this is a statemenet completely free of accusation may I add)

As for underagers... Well I might have to put the price of my cans of soft pop up to 8, to cover costs! Bless em! I have a lot of regular under 18's and they show the venue nothing but respect (took me a while though). And they will all be of an age to drink at some point, which means they wiil all head up to HJ's and Moshulu! ;) Love em all

Jim:cheers:

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Firstly...

Where is the love?

Secondly...

The reason so many underagers get into moshulu is cos by getting all 'gothed up' one can disguise their age very easily, bit of corpse paint here, huge fing spike through the lip, maybe some fancy hat ( i like hats). Bouncers tend to think outgoing 'gothed up' folk arnt young, foolish but true.

Thirdly....

Ass Boy Bouncer at Exodus, he is a twat ignore him. He searched me cos i was wearing tie die once, and wouldnt let me into exodus with my hat on but could go into TK, seemed odd to me but nm.

Fourthly...

HJB's cocktails 241 nights ROCK ! need more :o) and dem bouncers seem nice but i usualy turn up trashed so not sure, they always say good night and hello though very warm and friendly ahahah !

:dunce:

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Just to throw something into the hat here...

The one thing that irritates me (and I've never had this at HJB's or Moshulu) is when doormen refuse you without a reason when you're perfectly sober. I tested this once by going into the place across from the Triple Kirks for a quick drink, then we tried to get into the Triple Kirks..they refused us, without reason. I *personally* find it annoying as fuck when they do that.

I personally think that a lot of aggression is caused by seemingly inexplicable things - like, I got thrown out of some club down here for being drunk. I was sat on a chair at the time, and wasn't bothering anyone. I can fully understand why some people might react badly to such an event. Thankfully, the guy in question was decent enough to let me tell my friends what was happening so they could react. Personally, I find it questionable if they were just throwing someone out without making sure they were okay, and I'd like to see all clubs have an area where they could accomodate drunk people who merely needed to sober up - throwing them out onto the streets isn't a good idea, in my opinion.

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Originally posted by Cloud:

I tested this once by going into the place across from the Triple Kirks for a quick drink, then we tried to get into the Triple Kirks..they refused us, without reason.

Im sorry but how does that work? are you suggesting that by coming from another pub to triple kirks and being refused entry that is some kind of scientific test.....??????

You arent 12 by any chance are you? or do you wear full combat gear on a night out....

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Look doormen have a hard job just accept that!! And start concentrating on the bigger picture. Doormen have the right to refuse entry to anyone!! for any reason!! Accept that!! Nuff said!!

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In fact, to elaborate further... THEY DON'T NEED A REASON! Neither do bar staff when they refuse to serve someone, or managers when they ask someone to leave. In fact, in this day and age it is dangerous to give a reason in case it results in a lawsuit.

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Originally posted by GraemeC:

Im sorry but how does that work? are you suggesting that by coming from another pub to triple kirks and being refused entry that is some kind of scientific test.....??????

Works easily, we had a suspicion that they were doing it from watching people get turned away after they'd been in the place across the road, and when we tried it, it happened as well. If I was being paid, or had to do something for psychology, i'd have sat there and watched a bit longer. Anyway, depending if you view the social sciences as a science, you could probably do some sort of test to see what happens when 100 people leave the pub across the road and try and get into the triple kirks :)

Maybe it was just due to chance, I don't know - but it's a bit odd that they'd turn away people who had just left the place across the road without reason (yes, i know they don't have to give reasons..etc, but i've *never* been refused apart from when coming out of the place across the road)

I think I have too much time on my hands :)

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On 11/19/2003 at 8:59 PM, Flik said:

Furthermore, how many times do you see any real trouble in either of our venues? Having worked in too many to count over the years, I can safely say without bias that I have never seen a venue with less trouble, be it violence or illegal activity than HJB or Moshulu. We hire bouncers who can help us keep that image, not destroy it. I think our bouncers set a fine example to the rest and most certainly stand by them on this one...

years late to this conversation but i beg to differ. The bouncers at Moshulu were consistently arseholes. Once got shoved down the stairs by a bouncer there on my way back from the gents. When I complained that that was dangerous I was told I was too drunk and got my arm up my back (I'd only just arrived and had half a vodka and coke at this point) and was thrown out. I'd left my jacket and keys inside so needed to get back in so I could even get into my flat. I stood there and took verbal abuse from other bouncers on the door for being a "faggot" and not a "real man". I'm not gay btw, just not a musclebound dickhead like they were. This is just one example. A group of my friends and I had to pile onto a drunk one time to stop the bouncers at Moshulu assaulting him for just falling asleep drunk in the alley to the side of the front door. Moshulu's bouncers were the same as everywhere else, too much muscles and attitude, not enough brains or morals. 

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