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Guest Tam o' Shantie

mixer/outboard routing help

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Guest Tam o' Shantie

I'm currently trying to aqquire a mixer so that I can sort out my recording situation at home. using an 8 channel soundcard i'll be feeding in 8 mics to the balanced inputs on the mixer and connecting each channel output to the inputs on the sound card - as far as i know that will work ok. The thing is i want to route in a compressor along the way for a bit of slight compression to even out the input signal a little. If I had a 2 channel compressor, could I set 2 different ratios/thresholds and route them to the 2 stereo aux returns on the desk? and also would I be able to set the level of the effects returns on each channel so that i could cut it out on the guitar for example completely? I've never used a desk or outboard effects so i am a bit unsure, all i need is to have control over the amount of effect on each channel and for it to still record onto my sound card on seperate channels. while we're on the subject what are the best compressors to pick up on ebay for less than 100 quid?

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8 in soundcard

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| | | | | | | |

_____________

8 Channel mixer ------ compressor

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| | | | | | | |

audio source

does my descriptive diagram work?

:help:

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I'm currently trying to aqquire a mixer so that I can sort out my recording situation at home. using an 8 channel soundcard i'll be feeding in 8 mics to the balanced inputs on the mixer and connecting each channel output to the inputs on the sound card - as far as i know that will work ok. The thing is i want to route in a compressor along the way for a bit of slight compression to even out the input signal a little. If I had a 2 channel compressor' date=' could I set 2 different ratios/thresholds and route them to the 2 stereo aux returns on the desk? and also would I be able to set the level of the effects returns on each channel so that i could cut it out on the guitar for example completely? I've never used a desk or outboard effects so i am a bit unsure, all i need is to have control over the amount of effect on each channel and for it to still record onto my sound card on seperate channels. while we're on the subject what are the best compressors to pick up on ebay for less than 100 quid?

[/quote']

i think you would have to have a compressor unit for each channel you wanted to have different settings on. for example, with one compressor unit patched into aux 1, you could vary the dry/wet mix (like an effects loop) on each channel with the aux fader. i think it is more common place however to place gates/compressors as inserts into desks, which i think means that the whole signal is processed (as opposed to a variable amount as can be had with aux send/returns). the point being that if you are compressing something, you want the whole signal limited, as opposed to a mix of a limited and non-limited signal. not sure if that makes sense.

as for your question about guitars, if you use aux send/returns, then each channel typically has a fader which will control the amount of the effect that will be used on the channel - hence you could apply a little compression to the guitar, and a lot of compression to the snare, and a medium amount of compression to the kick. like i said though, i think aux returns are a bit like a dry/wet signal mix. soundian will correct if i'm wrong i'm sure.

i'm not sure what makes a good compressor, one to leave to soundian. however, i bought a boss rcl-10 compressor off ebay for 30 quid. it's about 10-15 years old, but certainly does the job. it took me ages to work out how to use it properly, and even now i'm still learning. it helps to hook it up and have the compressor in your hand as you sing so you can tweak it. most modern rack unit compressors will have presets anyway, which is a much more civilised way of doing things.

USD210000040856.JPG

^^ that's it there.

what kind of desk do you have by the way?

it's also worth noting as well that you can have compression plugins in the software you are using, it may save you money if you are determined to have different compression settings on different channels.

or alternatively, you could record all your tracks completely dry, then run your single compressor as a send from your actual sound card - that way, you can choose the right compression settings for each channel one by one, then bounce down a track of the wet mix with the compression setting. however, this could be a lengthy process.

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might be cheaper and simpler to record everything dry, using the faders to acheive a reasonably balanced mix which isn't clipping, and then do any required compression/limiting and levels adjustment in software as spellchecker suggested.

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Guest Tam o' Shantie

i have just bought a behringer 2642A

Eurorack2642A.jpg

for 90 pounds. hope i got a good deal.

the multichannel compressor looks handy indeed. is there actually any benefit to compressing when recording then? it seems that if i just record the levels with enough headroom to prevent any clipping then i could just compress later on anyway.

second question! i am looking to purchase a new microphone. currently i have

2 x AKG CS1000

2 x Shure SM58

1 x AudioTechnica Pro-25

and various shitty 'random' dynamics.

I think a large diaphragm condenser is what I need - previously the cs1000s were being used as stereo drum overheads, guitar and vocal mics and i'd like to use something abit more suited to the vocal recording. i'll be recording a 4 piece drum kit mostly so i'm thinking that i could have the sm58s on the 2 toms, pro 25 on the kick, a cs1000 each on snare and hi-hat and a large condenser for the overhead/room mic. there are shitloads of budget vocal condensers at the moment so can anyone recommend the best ones below 100 quid? (preferably quite a bit below).

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Cool, I like Behringer stuff.

I presume there is some reason most engineers record with compression, probably for the reason you mention. I'd imagine it's tricky to guarantee your channels don't suffer during the recording if you were to try and record them completely dry while still using enough gain, etc. Wouldn't it be almost impossible to get a signal off the drums in particular without it clipping to hell during the recording? Generally, you know you're going to have to compress it anyway later, and I guess an experienced engineer and his ears tell him how much to use during the tracking process.

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wow, that looks like a great desk - i feel silly for paying 60 quid for a folio notepad now! does it all work ok? looks like it does groups as well! very handy.

as for a vocal microphone, keep an eye out on ebay, and don't be bothered about losing lots of auctions. i would choose about 3 or 4 microphones that you are interested in, and just keep scouring. i'd say if the mic is not new and goes for anymore than about 70% of what it costs to buy it online, it's not worth winning. about six months ago i got a neumann tlm-103 for a very fair price and it was in excellent condition. akg 4000b and rode nt1000 are often popular choices, though i've never heard them myself. it's worth spending a bit more for your vocal mic; i wouldn't have said it would add that much as an overhead kit muc that you couldn't do with a dynamic and some e.q. However, vocals are your stand out instrument in a track, and the difference in quality of the mics used should have a noticeable difference.

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haha! that's my mixer. I like it (or I would, if i could bloody get it back). Wouldn't say a compressor's essential, though it's bloody handy for recording kits. I used an MXL V69G big condernsor mic on some vocals and guitar and that was very good indeed. Just got delivery of a new GT-66 tube mic for 150 which is gob-smackingly gorgeous.

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I wouldn't advise compressing while tracking except as a limiter for digi recording.

Compression is used on the tracking side to get a better S/N ratio. It does not have to be heavy 4:1 and high t/hold maybe. It can also be used as an effect for the part. When Im tracking I use soft compression on the BD and the SN mainly as a limiter, On the vocal I use a bit more 4:1 so it hit's the louder parts, Bass gtr I use about 8:1 with a high t/hold depending on style. It is very useful to use pre and post recording, if you think it might be too much, then back it off. Experiment and see what happens.

Mark..

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i have just bought a behringer 2642A

Eurorack2642A.jpg

for 90 pounds. hope i got a good deal.

the multichannel compressor looks handy indeed. is there actually any benefit to compressing when recording then? it seems that if i just record the levels with enough headroom to prevent any clipping then i could just compress later on anyway.

second question! i am looking to purchase a new microphone. currently i have

2 x AKG CS1000

2 x Shure SM58

1 x AudioTechnica Pro-25

and various shitty 'random' dynamics.

I think a large diaphragm condenser is what I need - previously the cs1000s were being used as stereo drum overheads' date=' guitar and vocal mics and i'd like to use something abit more suited to the vocal recording. i'll be recording a 4 piece drum kit mostly so i'm thinking that i could have the sm58s on the 2 toms, pro 25 on the kick, a cs1000 each on snare and hi-hat and a large condenser for the overhead/room mic. there are shitloads of budget vocal condensers at the moment so can anyone recommend the best ones below 100 quid? (preferably quite a bit below).[/quote']

For 90 it looks like a good deal. I would advise using it solely for the mic preamps and try to use the shortest signal paths. Do all the dynamic processing, EQing and FX digitally. It's almost certainly going to be better quality.

As for the drum miking, you're not gaining much by using the C1000 on the snare, use those as overheads (stereo overheads will help with your spatial positioning), use the large diaphragm on the hats and find one of the "random" mics that works well with the toms or the snare.

Experiment with undermiking the snare as well using the "randoms" (but remember to reverse the phase).

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Guest Tam o' Shantie

Rode Nt-1 looks like a good cheap large diaphragm.

I'm not too sure about using a cheap dynamic mic on the snare and the sm58s didn't seem quite directional enough when i have used them previously.

woe is me

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I'm not too sure about using a cheap dynamic mic on the snare and the sm58s didn't seem quite directional enough when i have used them previously.

woe is me

As I said, experiment and see if you have one that works.

As for the 58's not being directional enough, how directional do you want it?

Why is it directional enough on a tom, one of which is probably smaller than a snare, but not a snare?

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Nothing wrong with 57/58's on the Snare, I use them all the time with very little eq needed. The Rode Nt1 is a good mic. As Ian said experiment Nothing is wrong just different ;)

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