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Smoking Ban to become law...


PaulDW

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I take particular offence to the comment about -

"The mind boggles what people who have a particular aversion to smoke were thinking when they applied for a job in a BAR or PUB. It's not like there's a shortage of jobs in the servile job industry for experienced waiting/counter staff or such like' date=' infact there's even a few non-smoking bars in Aberdeen from what I've read."

why the hell should i have to work somewhere else just because i dont like getting smoke blown in my face?

[/quote']

It's a BAR!

That's really spitting in the face of the unemployed desperate for work. STUDENTS getting jobs then complaining about their working enviroment, I know people who have had to work in disgusting enviroments for a mere pittance to fund their life and students complain about smoke when their making over minimum wage. A complete insult to people on the dole who'd crawl over backwards to get a job, regardless of smoke. Completely pitiful view on the subject. Life doesn't come on a silver platter pal, we can't all get jobs tailor-made to our individual wants and desires.

Do you think it was a laugh working down mines for a living, or working on a building site? Some people have to put up and shut up, you have the choice. At least in a few years students will have degrees and cushy office jobs, some people will be working on building sites till the day they die, exhausted from building the fleets of "starter-homes" these students will fill, content in their gorgeous salaries and comfortable estate cars. And you think you have the right to stop them from smoking because you might develop Cancer in the 3-4 years you'll be working there.

Great interview where the Health Minister on Richard and Judy today when he took War Veteran pubs as an example (I can't for the life of me remember the offical name for them, similar to Working Mens Clubs but for Veterans), he said "You think it's fine for these war veterans to go and risk their lives fighting to keep your country free, but outlaw them from having a smoke in a pub".

Exactly how I feel, the day you do something for society other than helping people get drunk on a Saturday night, then whine about your job. Until then, put up with it or get a new job, theres plenty, check the P and J. No smoking in supermarets, banks, shops, cinemas, many cafe's and restaurants.....

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What will you ban next now you're on the slippery slope of suppression?

What are you ranting about...?

I didnt ban anything.....I wont be banning anything else.....I am just one of the many thousands of people who dont smoke and am pleased about this ban.

I just felt like coming on here and gloating at the poor addicts bleating on about banning cars and such shit.

This bill has been ongoing for years but as usual the people who are now crying about it didnt air their opinions until its too late.....unlucy!

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I cant see the point of you're argument' date=' Its you that is damaging my health...its you who needs to do something about it, but because you are a selfish smoker who is quite aware of the damage caused by passive smoke yet wouldnt think of doing anything about it, the government is forcing the issue to save lives....yes save lives, dont you care that you are killing people?

You wonder about the motives....saving lives isnt a clear and acceptable motive to you?

Save us from YOU'RE evil ways![/quote']

Pull your head out of your arse, because if you don't, your bunching panties are going to suffocate you.

Also, I may have taken your point a bit more seriously if you hadn't mis-spelt the word you drew attention to. It is YOUR not the abbreviated YOU ARE.

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Guest tv tanned
Pull your head out of your arse' date=' because if you don't, your bunching panties are going to suffocate you.

Also, I may have taken your point a bit more seriously if you hadn't mis-spelt the word you drew attention to. It is YOUR not the abbreviated YOU ARE.[/quote']

Ah, so poor grammar means the thrust of an argument shouldn't be taken seriously?

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Pull your head out of your arse' date=' because if you don't, your bunching panties are going to suffocate you.

Also, I may have taken your point a bit more seriously if you hadn't mis-spelt the word you drew attention to. It is YOUR not the abbreviated YOU ARE.[/quote']

Sorry...whats your (is that better?) point?

There is nothing worse than a pedantic smoker.

I cant see why my head is up my arse as you claim.

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Guest tv tanned
Sorry...whats your (is that better?) point?

There is nothing worse than a pedantic smoker.

I cant see why my head is up my arse as you claim.

you missed the apostrophe on what's... :moody:

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Cultural Change required if only for our kids

The whole idea that better ventilation will make pubs and clubs safer for Non Smokers is a pile of crap. Good Ventilation systems only partially remove the smoke and smell but dont remove the poisons found in second hand smoke so unless smokers are in their own sealed room that is separated from the rest of the pub/club then non smokers will still have to breathe in these poisons.

If the licensing trade have any worrys look at the percentage of population that smoke which is about 27%, just think about the increase in trade if even half of the population that doesnt smoke decide to start going to the pub just because they are smoke free. You would find that at least half of all smokers will still go to the pub which in turn would result in an increase of trade.

Some people will argue that by entering the pub/club it is your own fault for breathing in second hand smoke.

Smoking is the only legal drug that will directly affect other peoples health around the user of which only the user chooses to use. The Non smokers with special attention to kids do not choose to smoke but are, at the same time expected to breathe in second hand smoke when in public whether it be waiting for a bus, a train (i.e the person standing next to kids having a cigarette just before they have to put it out before getting on the smoke free bus) or going into places of entertainment that havent already banned smoking. How do you tell a 6 year old kid that it's their fault for getting cancer when they are older from breathing in your second hand smoke that day.

It's about time that something was done about making smoking socially unacceptable. Banning it in pubs/clubs is a start to change how people think. Hopefully this will show our children that it is not normal to smoke therefore preventing 13 year girls (who have been found to be the worst) and boys from starting smoking in the first place.

If people actually sit down and look at the bigger picture the number of children that have started smoking over the last 50 years has grown exponentially. Since parents actions will always influence how a child interprets whats right and wrong. Smoking in front of them shows them that it is socially acceptable. Hopefully if we ban smoking in public this in turn will help people to stop smoking since if they cant do it in public it becomes unsociable. Therefore our kids will hopefully take heed and see that smoking is not the cool thing to do when your growing up.

This change in culture wont happen overnight but if we can do what we can now, hopefully in 20-30 years children wont smoke, they will be healthier, live longer and have more productive lives.

In the long run the only people that loose out are the the tabacco companies and if you look closly at every lobby group that is against this then you will probably find in 9 out of 10 cases that the tabacco companies are directly behind it, just like the woman that visited Moshulu Ross.

The only downside about more and more western countries banning smoking is that in the third world smoking is going to be the next epidemic since the tabacco companies are tripling their efforts to sell cigarettes to the third world safe in the knowledge for the moment that people there are not clued up about the effects of smoking.They not legally bound by law in some third world countries to even have any health warnings about its effects. You never know but in 10-15 years time it could end up being an epidemic that is on a bigger scale than Aids. The only way to stop this from happening is for the rest of the world to take heed until even the manufacture & sale of tobacco products is banned world wide.

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Perfectly said Snakebite...it really amazes me when people say they enjoy smoking...i have never put a cigarette in my mouth in my entire life beacuse breathing smoke is possibly the most repulsive thing ever. Smokers are aware of the damage they are doing to their bodies yet they dont listen? I find it actually amusing that all you smokers have a greater chance than me of dying a horrible, slow painful death. Isnt that just so great? Just think of the enjoyable coughing fits, the yellow teeth, the stinking breath....bliss!

Ill die like that but at least I know a) ill have had a few years on this earth extra and b) I havent contributed to shitest nation in terms of health in the universe.

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Guest neil ex
Perfectly said Snakebite...it really amazes me when people say they enjoy smoking...i have never put a cigarette in my mouth in my entire life beacuse breathing smoke is possibly the most repulsive thing ever. Smokers are aware of the damage they are doing to their bodies yet they dont listen? I find it actually amusing that all you smokers have a greater chance than me of dying a horrible' date=' slow painful death. Isnt that just so great? Just think of the enjoyable coughing fits, the yellow teeth, the stinking breath....bliss!

Ill die like that but at least I know a) ill have had a few years on this earth extra and b) I havent contributed to shitest nation in terms of health in the universe.[/quote']

nah, you've just as much chance of dying a horrible death as us smokers have, through secondhand smoke.

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The whole idea that better ventilation will make pubs and clubs safer for Non Smokers is a pile of crap. Good Ventilation systems only partially remove the smoke and smell but dont remove the poisons found in second hand smoke so unless smokers are in their own sealed room that is separated from the rest of the pub/club then non smokers will still have to breathe in these poisons.

If the licensing trade have any worrys look at the percentage of population that smoke which is about 27%' date=' just think about the increase in trade if even half of the population that doesnt smoke decide to start going to the pub just because they are smoke free. You would find that at least half of all smokers will still go to the pub which in turn would result in an increase of trade.

Some people will argue that by entering the pub/club it is your own fault for breathing in second hand smoke.

Smoking is the only legal drug that will directly affect other peoples health around the user of which only the user chooses to use. The Non smokers with special attention to kids do not choose to smoke but are, at the same time expected to breathe in second hand smoke when in public whether it be waiting for a bus, a train (i.e the person standing next to kids having a cigarette just before they have to put it out before getting on the smoke free bus) or going into places of entertainment that havent already banned smoking. How do you tell a 6 year old kid that it's their fault for getting cancer when they are older from breathing in your second hand smoke that day.

It's about time that something was done about making smoking socially unacceptable. Banning it in pubs/clubs is a start to change how people think. Hopefully this will show our children that it is not normal to smoke therefore preventing 13 year girls (who have been found to be the worst) and boys from starting smoking in the first place.

If people actually sit down and look at the bigger picture the number of children that have started smoking over the last 50 years has grown exponentially. Since parents actions will always influence how a child interprets whats right and wrong. Smoking in front of them shows them that it is socially acceptable. Hopefully if we ban smoking in public this in turn will help people to stop smoking since if they cant do it in public it becomes unsociable. Therefore our kids will hopefully take heed and see that smoking is not the cool thing to do when your growing up.

This change in culture wont happen overnight but if we can do what we can now, hopefully in 20-30 years children wont smoke, they will be healthier, live longer and have more productive lives.

In the long run the only people that loose out are the the tabacco companies and if you look closly at every lobby group that is against this then you will probably find in 9 out of 10 cases that the tabacco companies are directly behind it, just like the woman that visited Moshulu Ross.

The only downside about more and more western countries banning smoking is that in the third world smoking is going to be the next epidemic since the tabacco companies are tripling their efforts to sell cigarettes to the third world safe in the knowledge for the moment that people there are not clued up about the effects of smoking.They not legally bound by law in some third world countries to even have any health warnings about its effects. You never know but in 10-15 years time it could end up being an epidemic that is on a bigger scale than Aids. The only way to stop this from happening is for the rest of the world to take heed until even the manufacture & sale of tobacco products is banned world wide.[/quote']

Paragraph 1: Deionisers?

2:That'll be why there's an estimated 25-30% downturn in pub trade in Dublin then?

3: There should be both smoking and non-smoking, then there would be a choice. I don't like the current situation where non-smokers don't have a choice.

4: If you ban smoking from pubs which allow people under 18 into, you get round that problem.

5: Banning it will only make it more attractive to 13 year old girls.

6: Move the smokers out of the pubs and back into their homes, where the kids are. Good thinking!

7: Utopia!!! Don't think so.

8: I'll let you off on that one. I smoke but I have no desire for anyone else to start.

9: With you again.You do talk sense sometimes.

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Paragraph 1: Deionisers?

They still dont work that well and are not 100% effective

2:That'll be why there's an estimated 25-30% downturn in pub trade in Dublin then?

If you look in New York business has increased. As far as a 25-30% downturn in dublin thats incorrect. There has only been a 1.3% drop in turnover since the ban was put in place and its still relatively new so im sure business will pick up. Also I was in Dublin in May and the pubs were packed out. The difference with dublin though is that they have also introduced a compulsary price increase on alcohol that puts the price up after 11pm in an attempt to prevent people binge drinking for the whole evening which also affects turnover.

3: There should be both smoking and non-smoking' date=' then there would be a choice. I don't like the current situation where non-smokers don't have a choice.[/quote']

What about the staff that work in these establishments most are students and it is in most cases the only job they can get that fits around Uni whether they smoke or not. The only way for staff to be protected as a duty of care is an outright ban.

4: If you ban smoking from pubs which allow people under 18 into' date=' you get round that problem.[/quote']

What? did you actually read what i said. How is only banning smoking in pubs that have a family license going to stop kids standing a bus stop from inhaling second hand smoke from the person that has to have a cigarette just before they get on the bus.

5: Banning it will only make it more attractive to 13 year old girls.

Stopping it from being seen as the normal thing to do when your out in public will change how children interpret whats cool to do and whats not. Smoking is like fashion if everyone else is doing it then kids will want to do it too. Therefore if you ban it public then it looses its status as being cool in the eyes of our kids therefore the trend will change and our kids attitudes will change.

6: Move the smokers out of the pubs and back into their homes' date=' where the kids are. Good thinking![/quote']

Yes I agree that it will put smokers back into their own home. But at the same time are smokers that have even the slightest bit of common sense really going to want to expose their own kids to second hand smoke knowing what it will do to them. These days adults that smoke know exactly what it will do to them over time. Also if it becomes normal for people not to smoke when they are out in public then a lot more people will stop smoking of their own accord.

7: Utopia!!! Don't think so.

We will never have a utopian society but just look at what AID's has done to the world, in the last 20-30 years everyone in the western world has been educated about what it will do to you (the third world is still in dire need of our help to educate them) and I think you yourself would do everything in your power to prevent yourself from ever getting it. Am I right?

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They still dont work that well and are not 100% effective

If you look in New York business has increased. As far as a 25-30% downturn in dublin thats incorrect. There has only been a 1.3% drop in turnover since the ban was put in place and its still relatively new so im sure business will pick up. Also I was in Dublin in May and the pubs were packed out. The difference with dublin though is that they have also introduced a compulsary price increase on alcohol that puts the price up after 11pm in an attempt to prevent people binge drinking for the whole evening which also affects turnover.

What about the staff that work in these establishments most are students and it is in most cases the only job they can get that fits around Uni whether they smoke or not. The only way for staff to be protected as a duty of care is an outright ban.

What? did you actually read what i said. How is only banning smoking in pubs that have a family license going to stop kids standing a bus stop from inhaling second hand smoke from the person that has to have a cigarette just before they get on the bus.

Stopping it from being seen as the normal thing to do when your out in public will change how children interpret whats cool to do and whats not. Smoking is like fashion if everyone else is doing it then kids will want to do it too. Therefore if you ban it public then it looses its status as being cool in the eyes of our kids therefore the trend will change and our kids attitudes will change.

Yes I agree that it will put smokers back into their own home. But at the same time are smokers that have even the slightest bit of common sense really going to want to expose their own kids to second hand smoke knowing what it will do to them. These days adults that smoke know exactly what it will do to them over time. Also if it becomes normal for people not to smoke when they are out in public then a lot more people will stop smoking of their own accord.

We will never have a utopian society but just look at what AID's has done to the world' date=' in the last 20-30 years everyone in the western world has been educated about what it will do to you (the third world is still in dire need of our help to educate them) and I think you yourself would do everything in your power to prevent yourself from ever getting it. Am I right?[/quote']

Just thought I'd ask.

We'll just have to disagree on the dublin figures, I bet we're both wrong anyway.

Protecting staff, a big sign on every application form informing them it's a smoking establishment should work. If the majority of pubs are non-smoking that's where they'll apply.

If smoking is so dangerous that a quick blast of smoke at a bus stop is enough to endanger someones health, we'd better put a stop to bonfire night right now. Bus stops aren't covered by this legislation (are bus shelters though?) so I chose to ignore it.

Banning it in public will just make it "cool" in the hormonally deranged mind of a teenager, quite often regardless of how they thought before.

So why are the people with common sense being punished?

Now that's a whole new topic and not similar because one exposure to the virus could seal your fate, I don't think one lungful of smoke would, otherwise we'd all be dead by now.

Sorry I can't be arsed doing all the nice cut and paste bits.

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As regards the Dublin figures, I thought "wouldn't it be a great idea to just ask the pub owners in Dublin what their figures are"

Someone has:

The licenced vintners association asked 277 Dublin pubs (roughly half of Dublins pubs).

turnover was down 16% and staff levels were down 14%.

That's more than one full time and two part time jobs per pub according to them.

Looks like students won't need to worry about breathing in smoke at work, there won't be any work.

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I used to smoke socially but stopped after I started working in the pub because the smoke was REALLY getting to me. That's why I fitted air cleaners and while they help enormously, they certainly do not eliminate the problem entirely. For this reason I personally am happy that a ban is on the way in.

On the trade figures front. The government has been clever here because while it shows trade has increased in NY and Dublin as a result of the ban, those figures include trade in ALL PUBLIC PLACES, not just bars and clubs LOL. The reality is that trade is down in bars and clubs. Why when just 27% of people smoke? Well because those 27% of people also do the majority of the drinking heh heh.

IMO most young people start smoking in bars. I did as did most of my friends. Neither of my parents smoke but then they aren't major pub go-ers either.

The ban won't be as serious for The Moorings as some other bars because we have a large number of customers aged under 25 that haven't yet started smoking. Hopefully the ban will see that they don't.

The issue of the ban putting bars out of business may sound like pants but in fact it's not. Most bars and clubs are operating from a position of debt. Not necessarily because they've run up a loss but most usually because they've borrowed money to get up and running. This also applies to the large chains (Ha Ha) that are mostly built on borrowed money. The problem here is that the repayments of this debt runs away with a substantial bundle of takings. Even a small drop in takings could tip things over the edge in many cases. First thing to go is usually the publican wages and that hurts!

The other problem is that punters breed more punters. There's kind of a point where you reach a critical mass. Drop below that point and the place starts to look like a ghost town.

I estimate that it will take in the region of 5 years for the trade to recover.

But does any of this matter? Well IMO no not really because I think that in the future we'll look back and find it hard to believe smoking was ever allowed in public places in the first place.

The real danger is that drinking will go the same way. Health warnings are already starting to appear on bottles of alcohol. Unless the trade reacts to this it will find itself behind the curve again, and 15 years down the line theres a danger that drinking will be banned. Laugh by all means, but if you'd told someone in 1989 that smoking would one day be banned in pubs they'd have collapsed with laughter and probably had you locked up. So for this reason the trade really should look at tackling the drink related problems that certain factions of the trade has created. One thing that might also happen is that the government will start to raise taxes on alcohol. When I first bought a packet of fags they cost 1, 15 years later they were 5. In that same period of time drink has little more than doubled in price.

The smoking ban is a done deal - what we should start thinking about is protecting our freedom to drink alcohol. If alcohol were banned then the trade would lose 99% of it's sales LOL.

Oh and the same goes for loud music, they're going after that one too. Look up the EU noise regulations directive on-line it's a bit of a shocker. If we were to implement it then the music volume would drop below the level of background noise.

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As regards the Dublin figures' date=' I thought "wouldn't it be a great idea to just ask the pub owners in Dublin what their figures are"

Someone has:

The licenced vintners association asked 277 Dublin pubs (roughly half of Dublins pubs).

turnover was down 16% and staff levels were down 14%.

That's more than one full time and two part time jobs per pub according to them.

Looks like students won't need to worry about breathing in smoke at work, there won't be any work.[/quote']

I too, thought i'd have a look at this, as most if not all of the negative figures have been sponsored by the tobaco industry. Speaking to some friends who own a bar in Dublin revealed that the percieved downturn was more due to the hiking of post 11pm drink prices than the smoking ban as the sales figures pre 11pm had actually increased.

Speaking of filters and ionisers, I was in a bar in Kinloss, watching a band. The pub has a state of the art filter/ioniser fitted. The singers (non smokers) struggled against a rising fug of smoke all night. Why? The fucking thing was turned off. I asked why and was told it's too dear to run. With an attitude like that, the licensed trade deserves a blanket smoking ban.

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I too' date=' thought i'd have a look at this, as most if not all of the negative figures have been sponsored by the tobaco industry. Speaking to some friends who own a bar in Dublin revealed that the percieved downturn was more due to the hiking of post 11pm drink prices than the smoking ban as the sales figures pre 11pm had actually increased.

Speaking of filters and ionisers, I was in a bar in Kinloss, watching a band. The pub has a state of the art filter/ioniser fitted. The singers (non smokers) struggled against a rising fug of smoke all night. Why? The fucking thing was turned off. I asked why and was told it's too dear to run. With an attitude like that, the licensed trade deserves a blanket smoking ban.[/quote']

I don't know if those figures took into account the 11pm price hike, it only mentioned smoking.

However, the 11pm price hike shouldn't affect jobs, the amount of jobs in a pub depends on how many people are needed at the busiest times, so if it's busier before 11 they should need more staff, or at least the same as before, not 14% less.

If pubs in Ireland close at midnight normally, I can't see that having an effect on staff levels at all, only on their paypackets.

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As regards the Dublin figures' date=' I thought "wouldn't it be a great idea to just ask the pub owners in Dublin what their figures are"

Someone has:

The licenced vintners association asked 277 Dublin pubs (roughly half of Dublins pubs).

turnover was down 16% and staff levels were down 14%.

That's more than one full time and two part time jobs per pub according to them.

Looks like students won't need to worry about breathing in smoke at work, there won't be any work.[/quote']

The scottish executive announced the 1.3% drop in turnover in parliment during the debate on the ban on smoking

Also people are not going to stop drinking just because they can smoke in public, in scotland only 27% of us actually smoke. What about the rest of the population that dont currently go to pubs just because of smoking.

With regards to banning bonfire night how on earth do you get nicotine from burning wood

It's the nicotine thats contained in cigarette smoke that causes cancer.

Nicotine is an additctive drug that some people have become addicted to. The ban will help people to give up this addiction because there wont be the temptation to smoke when in public

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