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2017/18 Football Season Thread


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On 04/08/2017 at 9:04 PM, ca_gere said:

Slow day at work, read this in its entirety:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jul/03/premier-league-fans-all-47-clubs-best-worst-moments

good shit.

A lot of these 'best moments' I've got really vivid memories of. Fab Rav's hattrick, Viduka's four goals, Albert's chip... all replay in my mind like they happened yesterday.

Best moment : beating Rangers 3-2 at Pittodrie in 2005 after something like 20 games without a win against them. When Jamie Smith's winner went in (I remember it as a 30 yard screamer but it probably wasn't) I've never felt euphoria like that at a football match before or since. I literally dropped to my knees in the stand. Beating them again 2-1 later that season was the icing on the cake. 

Worst moment - probably 9-0 but I didn't actually watch that game so I can't really count it. It would have to be something in the Mark McGhee era though. Sitting freezing through some drab midweek draws in that awful winter when it was like -10 outside. Not good memories. 

Favourite player - Russell Anderson. A class act on and off the pitch. 

Edited by Lemonade
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Lindelof doesn't look very good. A defender coming out of the Portuguese league is usually where Mourinho always gets it right. What's this lad supposed to be good at? Got bullied by little Isco, looks a bit slow off the mark, and for a supposed ball playing defender, you'd have thought the ball was made of wasps in the way he avoided it. It's only preseason but he's looked poor every game so far.

Nevermind. This is the year Phil Jones stays fit, right?

Right?

Hello?

Edited by Soda Jerk
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This is the most excited I've been about a Premier League in years.

Who's finishing in the top four, and who's going down? 

I'm going:-

1. City
2. Chelsea
3. Tottenham
4. United

And:-

18. Huddersfield
19. Burnley
20. Brighton

City, for me, have smartly strengthened their most problematic positions (both full-back spots) while adding to their stupidly deep collection of attacking midfielders. Not sure about the central defence, as John Stones' development isn't really where it should be, but Vincent Kompany's fitness will be a decisive factor - him and Otamendi looks a good pairing.

Chelsea have bought well, but I think they'll miss Matic (though his replacement seems a great player, but all accounts), and they may struggle if Morata doesn't adapt quickly. They've also lost a boatload of fringe players who could've provided depth during the season's busier periods.

I've got Tottenham at third because they're clearly a fantastic side, but haven't strengthened at all. Seen a bunch of people predicting United for the title, but I must be missing something there. They've added Lukaku, who's more athletic and will score more goals than Zlatan, but will contribute less to their overall play. Lindelof looks naff too, but Matic is a great acquisition.

Relegation-wise, I love Chris Hughton, but don't think he's strong enough for PL management. Brighton will sink like a stone. Huddersfield will start brightly and win plenty of new fans with their Klopp-lite style, but will ultimately falter towards the end. Burnley suck, Dyche sucks, and they've sold their best players. Get right in the bin.

Edited by Murrr
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It's hard to see past City for the title. Pep's had his year to acclimatize, they've bought well, etc. Their squad is absolutely frightening. 

I think the hype around United is due to a few factors:

1) Matic and Herrera allowing Pogba to push on and become the playmaker he truly is. Pressure on him will be enormous this season.

2) Lukaku being Lukaku, but at united

3) Mourinho's second year is generally the one he kicks on and wins everything

4) The Rooney shackles being lifted

5) The fabled Mourinho effect potentially working on a few supporting cast members (Rashford in particular looks like a new player right now)

I think they'll finish second.

I still just don't 'get' Jesse Lingard. What does he bring to the table other than a good attitude? Talk of Barcelona wanting him? wtf?!

It's surprising to me that Spurs aren't being talked about much as favourites. Absolutely fuck all wrong with that team. 

I'm perhaps most excited about Chicharito at West Ham and Iheanacho at Leicester. Two deadly goal poachers at teams who threaten the opposing box more than most.

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I'll stick my neck out and say I'm pretty confident that one of last season's top six will win the league.  I also think that four of last season's top six will finish in the top four.  Bold stuff. 

I genuinely think the title is a 'six-horse race' though.  All have very strong squads and if they work well as a team on the pitch over the course of the season they are all capable of winning it.  I agree that City have the strongest squad but the same could be said about them for the past few seasons and they've not really threatened to win the league for three years.  I also think Spurs have as good a chance as anyone.  They haven't bought any new players but still have a young team that's improving simply through experience and growing up together.  There's a lot to be said for that.  Liverpool could easily threaten to win if they can get better at beating the likes of Bournemouth and Burnley.  They might not do, but it's not necessarily the biggest challenge to overcome in football.

Not sure who'll go down.  Potentially anyone other than last season's top six, although I think Everton and Southampton probably don't have too much to worry about.  The promoted sides could struggle, although in recent seasons promoted teams have often done a bit better than expected in the first season.  I fancy the likes of Watford, Stoke and Burnley to struggle a bit.

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I think you're spot on there. That's why this season is so appetite-inducing. The deficiencies in the top 6 or so sides are so minor that any one of them could take it. Even the prospect of the new-look Everton hitting the ground running is exciting. Fuck, even Arsenal seem non lol-worthy this year.

Salah is another player i'm looking forward to seeing. Him and Mané going full tilt will be a sight.

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3 minutes ago, ca_gere said:

I think you're spot on there. That's why this season is so appetite-inducing. The deficiencies in the top 6 or so sides are so minor that any one of them could take it. Even the prospect of the new-look Everton hitting the ground running is exciting. Fuck, even Arsenal seem non lol-worthy this year.

Salah is another player i'm looking forward to seeing. Him and Mané going full tilt will be a sight.

Salah has looked extremely good in pre-season.  He already has a very good understanding with Coutinho, one of a number of reasons why Liverpool shouldn't sell the latter at any price.  He and Mane in the same team will terrify a lot of defences.  I think even a 'low block' approach will struggle against both the pace and intelligence.  Liverpool could do with signing van Dijk though.

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City need a centre back to be concrete favourites IMO. Stones has swathes of being truly godawful, and moments where he is passable at best. He's a good dribbler, passer and good technique as a footballer, better than most centre backs I would think, but as a pure defender, a stopper, a tackler, in the air? He is rather poor in all those areas, as well as his positioning. Otamendi being the exact opposite who is a great last ditch defender, but looks terrified of the ball. Kompany can do it all, but fitness is a question mark, and he is probably beyond his peak. An 80% fit Kompany is still better than those two though. They definitely need one more. If they can do that, I think they'll be runaway favourites.

They've brought in good fullbacks though. Mendy especially. Walker is good, but still a bit brainless, despite now being in what should be his peak years. He'll cause problems with his pace regardless. But Mendy might just be the best crosser of the ball in the game right now. God knows they've needed delivery from outwide for a long time, and never had it.

No idea about their goalkeeper situation. Ederson cost a lot of money, so that must mean he's good, right? They need to bin Bravo anyway.


Not sure about Chelsea and Spurs. Chelsea look likely to lose Costa, and I'm not sure how well Morata will replace him, as he's not been a consistent starter anywhere yet. He is supposedly a bit overweight right now as well. Bakayoko is a good player, but I don't think he replaces Matic directly. Bakayoko looks quite a gung ho destroyer, almost like Kante. Matic brought a lot of composure to the midfield. It'll be interesting to see how their midfield plays now.

Sounds like Danny Rose wants out at Spurs. Losing your two first choice full backs without strengthening wouldn't be good for them. Amongst the top 6, Spurs seem to be the lowest payers, and with Walker getting out and Rose saying "pay me what I'm worth", it's possibly not sustainable. They might have to change thir wage structure, or prepare to lose a few more.


Not convinced United will come close to winning the league. They wasted all summer sniffing around Perisic from Inter, who isn't even that good. He bombed at Dortmund. Did okay at Wolfsburg, until they binned him for £8m. Now Inter want £50m+ for him? Nah. United need a winger, but it might be too late to get one now, for all the dancing around Perisic. All whilst Douglas Costa left Bayern for Juve for £30m, a much better player.

Lukaku and Matic are strong signings. Matic was United's best player in the Super Cup by a distance. I think Lukaku will be better than Ibrahimovic, as he can actually run, and I disagree that he will be less involved in the build up. Zlatan's involvement in overall play was poor, as was his running to streth the defence. Lukaku will run in behind, occupy defenders and cause more problems. He doesn't quite have that magic touch Zlatan had, but Zlatan was still a frustrating player to watch despite that.

United need a left back too. 3 seasons of Luke Shaw and he's barely played. He's either fat or injured. Darmian is a right footer forced out on to the left, Blind is good backup but he's slow. All hope seems to be lost with Shaw. Should have gone for Mendy. They definitely need to bring someone in, though I don't know who.

Lingard is terrible, barring his 2 screamers a year, one usually being at Wembley. Fans can't stand him. Twitter goes in to meltdown any time he's a starter on the team sheet, which is a lot. Another reason why they need a winger. He's quite good at the basics, but excels at absolutely nothing. Works hard but not particularly effective defending, as opposing players just barge through him. How is he starting over Martial?


I think City will run away with it if they can get that CB. No idea the order of the rest of the pack.
 

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Im not convinced about the Mourinho second season bounce this time. I honestly think that the game is passing him by. The reactive style that built his reputation won a big undefeated run last season, but it was probably the worst undefeated run of all time. His teams have been very blunt going forward for a couple of season now and I don't see Lukaku changing that.

The guy seems increasingly fed up with life every passing season, and he sounds super frustrated by the club's transfer market activity. I heard something about the Glazers getting all shaken up about Brexit, so I guess they're probably done in the market?

Or maybe I'm just biased because I think he's a big cunt. I dunno.

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It was definitely the worst unbeaten run of all time. Specialists in draws.

I do, however, think the bluntness was often caused by Ibrahimovic's invincibility. So many games he was the worst player on the pitch, who just wouldn't move, wouldn't run, wouldn't even leap for a header and instead was just throwing an audacious kung-fu kick towards an aerial ball, and inevitably giving away a foul, because you can't kick people in the face. He played the full 90 every week, stopping Rashford or Martial from getting on the pitch, when so many games he should have come off at half time. 16 goals I think he got. If he could actually move, he could have got double that. I'm sure he has a good highlight reel for 16/17, but watching him every week was often excruciating. Magic touch, but ultimately he didn't give a fuck. Oh, and his free kicks. Apart from the one he fluked in the League Cup final, he just fucked them all straight in to the wall every time, yet he took every single one.

I think Lukaku has a good chance of changing that, because he will run and he will fight, and he won't be invincible to getting yanked at the hour mark if he's having a stinker. He hasn't earned that status like Zlatan had. United's chance creation last season was one of the best in the league, but whenever a good ball was fizzed across goal, Zlatan would be stood outside the box with his hands on his hips. I'm looking forward to seeing United led by Lukaku and not the undroppable Ibrahimovic. Lukaku will be on the shoulder, and much closer to those fizzed balls across goal. His presence and pace should make them less blunt going forwards. Especially if one of Martial or Rashford is flanking him.

They still won't get close to the title though. A push for 2nd or 3rd place, one of the domestic cups and CL quarter finals would be a reasonable season. They've not strengthened enough, and I don't see much happening in the next 2 weeks to change that.


As for the Glazers, they inject very little of their own money into the club. They're not cash-rich folk. Their cash is tied up in equity, one being United, which they acquired via loans and pay said loan off via United's profits, so they will eventually have acquired the club for nothing, in like, another 20 years. United spend via their own revenues (I'm led to believe Pogba is one of the only deals they have contributed to in a long time) which is why they can't really compete with the oil rich guys who own City and PSG. I don't think the Glazers will ever be done with the club until the revenues they siphon off have paid off their debt.

 

Edited by Soda Jerk
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1 minute ago, Adam Easy Wishes said:

Much of Spurs' success this season will hinge on how they adapt to playing at Wembley rather than WHL I reckon.

Forgot about that. They didn't look too great at Wembley in the Europa League, though I don't know if that is because they didn't really want to be in it.

Are they allowed to fill up the full 80,000?

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I'm not convinced they need a winger. Valencia bombing it down the line, toe-blasting it into the hoardings and jogging back like he did nothing wrong worked a treat last season.

Seriously though, Rashford, Lingard and Martial when they played seemed to get pulled further and further wide each game when Ibra was up top. In pre-season they've all been put on the wing too (from the few games I saw). Lukaku is a much better target in the middle than Ibra-'stick it chest high behind me, I wanna try a scorpion volley'-himovic so I can't see much need for a swashbuckler with a pin-pointer of a cross on him.

It'll be interesting to see how they line up next season. Is this way off (assuming lindelof is the hoofer he seems to be so far)?

 

------------De Gea----------------

Valencia -- Baily--- Blind ---  Rojo

------Matic-----------------------

----------------Herrera------------

Rashford-----Pogba------Mkhitarian

-----------Lukaku-------------

Off the bench you've got the barnstorming Felaini to fuck things up when needs be, Mata for when mkhtarian his having an off one, Lingard to make regular people think they could make it in the premier league, 3 fall-back wing-backs in shaw, darmian and the other one i've forgotten and Martial when Rashford runs himself into the ground. That's a solid solid team that should be right up there imo.

Potentially a big season for Mkh I think. As much as I love Mata, I think mkh has more talent.

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4 minutes ago, ca_gere said:

I'm not convinced they need a winger. Valencia bombing it down the line, toe-blasting it into the hoardings and jogging back like he did nothing wrong worked a treat last season.

Seriously though, Rashford, Lingard and Martial when they played seemed to get pulled further and further wide each game when Ibra was up top. In pre-season they've all been put on the wing too (from the few games I saw). Lukaku is a much better target in the middle than Ibra-'stick it chest high behind me, I wanna try a scorpion volley'-himovic so I can't see much need for a swashbuckler with a pin-pointer of a cross on him.

It'll be interesting to see how they line up next season. Is this way off (assuming lindelof is the hoofer he seems to be so far)?

 

------------De Gea----------------

Valencia -- Baily--- Blind ---  Rojo

------Matic-----------------------

----------------Herrera------------

Rashford-----Pogba------Mkhitarian

-----------Lukaku-------------

Off the bench you've got the barnstorming Felaini to fuck things up when needs be, Mata for when mkhtarian his having an off one, Lingard to make regular people think they could make it in the premier league, 3 fall-back wing-backs in shaw, darmian and the other one i've forgotten and Martial when Rashford runs himself into the ground. That's a solid solid team that should be right up there imo.

Potentially a big season for Mkh I think. As much as I love Mata, I think mkh has more talent.

Blind won't be first choice centre back under Mourinho. He is probably 5th in the pecking order for that position. Mourinho had him there at the start of last season, but it didn't last long. He played Darmian, Tuanzebe and Fosu Mensah before playing Blind there in the 2nd half of last season.

It'll most likely be Bailly and Rojo in the middle, but Rojo is out until December, so likely to be Smalling or Jones next to Bailly until then. Smalling didn't have the best of seasons, interrupted by injuries, but he's still the best pure defender at the club IMO. Rojo the best all-rounder. Bailly is a lunatic, but he usually uses his lunacy for good. Shocking in the air though. He jumps higher than the ball every time,then tries to head downwards and almost ends up doing a somersault. There's time for Lindelof to step up, but I've not seen anything about him yet. Then again, Vidic was LOLbad when he first joined. So, y'never know.

Rojo is awful at full back. If they don't bring in a LB before the window closes, it'll be Darmian and Blind out there, with a bit of Ashley Young now and again. And maybe Shaw when he returns from the dead.

I'm still not sold on Mkhitaryan. Owen Hargreaves keeps bleating on about how "Awesome" he is on BT Sport, because he likes to let everyone know that he watches the Bundesliga, but he's not done it all that often for United. I still prefer Mata. Mkhitaryan is wasteful and takes some ridiculous shots from daft angles. Mata rarely wastes a ball. He's been United's most consistent (non De Gea) player since Moyes brought him in, and seems good for a consistent 10 goals and 10 assists a season. Doesn't have the ups and downs Mkhi has. They're both a bit slow though, and both are better behind the striker than out wide.

I do think they need a winger because besides Rashford/Martial (no chance they'll play at the same time, because Mourinho) there's not enough threatening pace in that side. Shaw is quick, if he is still alive. Valencia has lost a bit of his pace. He's still got his top speed, but doesn't have that acceleration he used to have. Lukaku is pretty quick, but won't be able to use it as much if he's occupying the centre backs. They need some pace out wide to stretch defences, or the attack will all go through the middle.

They should throw it all at Sanchez. Year left on his contract, seems to be humping about leaving anyway, Arsenal surely can't let him leave for nothing next summer.

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Rojo is an excellent footballer without being that good at any position. He's such a weird player. 

Totally forgot about Ashley young. He'll go on a run of 3 games where he scores multiple far post curlers as he does most seasons.

Here's my prediction for City's lineup first game:

 

-------------------------Ederson---------------------

Walker----Kompany----Otamendi----Stones---Danilo

-------------------------Toure------------------------

---------------KDB----------Silva----------------

---------------Aguero---------Jesus--------------

I know Pep has played them both in pre-season, but I don't see how it'll work consistently having both Aguero and Jesus on the pitch given the fact they are essentially the same player. 3 attacking midfielders and one finisher always seems more effective to me. But then again, i know fuck all compared to Guardiola.

 

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This is a good, balanced evaluation of the Danny Rose situation that never veers into "wheeey, he's a money-grabbin' bastard innit?" territory. I hadn't really thought about how their financial structure has hindered them in the market. They're just about the only sensible club in a completely foolish market, and there's a chance they could now be overtaken for prioritising financial stability over hysteria. That's quite sad, really.

Reckon we might snatch a point off them this weekend.

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Good read that. I don't have an issue with Rose's reasons for possibly wanting out. I actually didn't realise he was 27 (When did that happen?!) so it's normal that he's possibly looking at Walker going to City with a bit of envy, having a decent chance of trophies whilst doubling his salary. I think it was a poor decision to go bleating all of his thoughts and feelings to The Sun, though.

Spurs really should have won the league when Leicester did. That was their chance, when all the top clubs failed miserably. With their financial restraints, and shifting between 3 stadiums in the next couple of years, I think their chance has come and gone. They might keep Kane long-term, as he appears to love the club. I'd be surprised if Alli isn't at a bigger (richer) club in the next year or two.

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Coutinho has asked to leave. That was only a matter of time. The "categorically not for sale" line only comes out when a player's head is turned. Seems like there was only a couple of hours between Liverpool saying he's not for sale and Coutinho putting in a transfer request.

They should sell quickly, to stop it lingering on and hampering their start in the league and CL qualifier. And if they play him in the qualifier, he's cup tied, that'll knock a fair chunk off his value.

Get rid and buy Lanzini for less than half the price. Good player, very underrated.

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3 hours ago, Soda Jerk said:

Coutinho has asked to leave. That was only a matter of time. The "categorically not for sale" line only comes out when a player's head is turned. Seems like there was only a couple of hours between Liverpool saying he's not for sale and Coutinho putting in a transfer request.

They should sell quickly, to stop it lingering on and hampering their start in the league and CL qualifier. And if they play him in the qualifier, he's cup tied, that'll knock a fair chunk off his value.

Get rid and buy Lanzini for less than half the price. Good player, very underrated.

I think I'm right in saying that Coutinho wouldn't be cup-tied for Barca if he plays in the qualifiers, so it wouldn't make any difference to his price.  That only applies if he plays in the group stages.  Liverpool really don't have to sell him.  He's very recently signed a long contract with no release clause.  Wonder if he regrets doing that now. If he stays at Liverpool this season they could still sell him for tonnes next summer, probably even more than they would get now.  I suspect Liverpool would only sell if they can buy van Dijk and/or Keita, at least partly because supporters will go in to total meltdown against FSG if they don't bring someone major in if Coutinho leaves.

Agree that Lanzini is good, though I don't think he's at the level of Coutinho.  Liverpool probably see Keita as more of a Coutinho replacement, but it doesn't look as though they'll get him at least this season.

It's quite striking how the dynamics between club and player have changed a bit over the last year.  It's generally been the players who've had quite a bit of power in transfers because most clubs have needed to generate income from selling players.  Now you have every club in the Premier League getting a shedload of TV cash and clubs in other countries that are bankrolled by major companies or oil-rich nations a lot of clubs just don't need to sell players.  I suspect we'll see a further shift in terms of the sorts of contracts players sign, in an attempt to regain some of the power they've lost.

 

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