2015/16 Soccer Thread.

[Alkaline]

7 hours ago, ca_gere said:

End of season conclusions?

here are some of mine:

- James Milner was wasted at City. Highly capable play maker who works hard. Proved it at villa (and newcastle?) but wasn't valued at City.

- Arsenal still need a striker and a DM

- Man Utd were never as bad as made out but the league has changed dramatically since the glory days under Fergie and they can no longer take anything for granted.

- There's no longer a top 4 or 5. Any team that plays consistent football really can win the league. How much you think that will change next year? The 'big' clubs must be licking their lips at the thought of pulling away from the parity.

- Pardew is still a nob

- Martinez is a nice buy but really not that great a team manager

- Spurs should win the league next year but probably won't

- What's made for a good season in the prem has made for a bad season in Europe. I like seeing Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, etc being competitive in the champs league.

Hmmm,

 

- I think I agree about Milner, he's not a next level talent but he's a solid reliable workhorse who can move a game from front to back. I'd be happy to have him in Spurs squad.

- I think Arsenal need a bit more than that, a solid mobile CB for one.

- I somewhat agree with that Man Utd assessment, I feel they could've performed better though, they just lack a spark. It'll be interesting to see what Depay and Martial do next season and I expect Rooney to drop into a midfield role for good next year. They are a bit more solid looking at the back at the moment but they are definitely lacking something.

- Yeah, agree.

- I'm not sure I get the Pardew hate, he's ok, don't think I'd want to go for a pint with him or anything but he's fairly inoffensive

- I like Martinez, think he's been let down by his players and apparently Barkley has the team and his ego is escalating a bit

- This season was our season to capitalise, a lot depends on what focus is given on CL next season and where we strengthen. I personally think we're still missing a dedicated left winger but I'm really happy with our current squad. The danger will always be Chelsea, City, United and Arsenal throwing more money at the league and it working for them. Really happy with second or third place this year. Next year at least hope we'll finish in the same area but you never know, the pressures on the bigger guys. I'd watch for Liverpool.

- Disagree, there's Liverpool in the Europa final, City made the semis of the CL and there was a decent whack of English teams in the Quarters and last 16. I actually think Liverpool are in with a really big chance of winning the Europa final though.

[Soda Jerk]

The fans loved Milner at City but he was always a utility man out wide. An English Ji Sung Park. He's a good player and Liverpool are using him properly.

Arsenal have needed a DM and a striker since before time began. No doubt they'll ignore it again this summer and buy more playmakers and young full backs. 

United haven't been woeful but have severely underachieved given the resources that have been ploughed into the club in the last 2 years. LvG has taken them nowhere. Last season they started to click, but then he ripped it up and started again. The squad is better than it is currently performing, but I think that goes for all the top clubs bar Spurs. LvG needs to go.

The league will get more open as the new 5 billion quid TV deal comes in to play this summer. Lots and lots of money for all. Even before the new TV deal, Aston Villa will have made more in TV money by the seasons end than Bayern and Atletico have.

Pardew is an arse. Hope he doesn't win the FA Cup.

Martinez just can't get a defence to work. It's always been his problem. He seems to have abandoned possession football too and they now just smack it long to Lukaku. This season, they have the worst home record they've ever had in the PL. They're not the hard to beat side they used to be. 

There'll be lots of strengthening this summer. Also Pep and Conte coming in to the league, Klopp will be starting his first full season, Mourinho possibly coming back. It's going to be the strongest the PL has ever been in terms of managers. Would be  even better if Fergie was still around. Next season will be wide open. 8 teams with a realistic shout for top 4. Maybe more after all the summer movement. 

PL teams did better in Europe than last season. I think Liverpool will win it too. 

[Eupraxia]

It's still not the end of the season, but I have reached some of my own conclusions. I'll stick with English football just now, as that seems to be the discussion point. This will probably bore you.

I've really enjoyed the season so far, but let's face it, Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, and Arsenal were all fucking awful. All the hype laden on Marcus Rashford bothered me—particularly discussion about him making the England squad for the Euros...I mean, what the actual fuck? So the guy has some pace and managed to out-manoeuvre a couple of demonstrably immobile backlines once or twice. An international footballer, that does not make. United have become a passive possession-based team, and even as a fan of clean sheets and organised defences, I found them difficult to watch and get excited about this year. There are so many weaknesses and flaws littered around their team, it's difficult to know where to start in terms of strengthening.  A club sorely lacking in vision and identity right now, which is not helped by the narcissistic obstinacy of their manager.

I have loved watching Bournemouth and West Ham—two well-managed clubs who are arguably over-achieving; it will be interesting to see how they strengthen during the summer. Same with Leicester—I don't see any of these clubs recruiting what we would deem 'big names', but all three have shown that doesn't really matter if the basic playing ideology and framework is there, combined with genuine team spirit.

Tottenham are in a great position to continue their evolution, and they have some players that I really admire. They are a strong unit, with lots of pace and power. The players lacking destructive pace seem to have the technique and smarts to tessellate themselves into the team. I'm not quite sure they'll be champions next season, though. I'm assuming, like many, that Manchester City and Chelsea will both be strong.

Arsenal are Arsenal, and always will be. I think we all know what is meant by that. They are a club really not worth getting excited by any more.

Cover your eyes, Murr and Gypsum, but I really hope Newcastle are relegated again. They need to pay the price for gross mismanagement and pitiful decision-making. I recall McClaren saying after the first seven or eight games that the only way Newcastle will get out of a relegation scrap is with huge financial investment. Bullshit. Do your job as a coach and football manager, and maximise the substantial human resources available to you, first. Sure, it's always going to be tough with a bumbling oaf like Fabricio Coloccini as your captain, but then handing it to a petulant, slack-jawed, and under-motivated Jonjo Shelvey was laughable. He is not captain material—he always appears to play for himself before the team. That said, I think Newcastle will stay up, as Rafa is a master at organising a rough-around-the-edges back four—even with midfielders playing at full-back, it seems.

I don't feel any sympathy for Aston Villa or their fans. If there ever was an English club with an over-inflated sense of entitlement, it's Aston Villa.

And finally, if I didn't already hate myself enough, it's been exacerbated by the fact I have started to root for Liverpool. It's difficult not to like Jurgen Klopp and his approach to football. I am well and truly on the bandwagon. My football principles are out the fucking door. That is a crushing personal conclusion to reach; which is why it was the last I addressed. Now if you don't mind, I'm off to order a Liverpool strip and become a full-kit wanker.
 

[Soda Jerk]

I agree about Rashford. I think he has great potential, aside from his pace and finishing, he does have a good technical game. Definitely shouldn't be put in to the Macheda category, but he needs to show it over more than a dozen games. Kane, Vardy, Sturridge, Welbeck and even Rooney are all more suitable options for Euro 16 due to their experience and just being better footballers right now. Rashford for England should never have been mentioned. He's not even played for the U21s yet. But the hype around him is bizarre in its own right. It's toppled the hype around players like Martial and Iheanacho, both of them are significantly better than Rashford right now. Being young and English is a good earner.
 

I think the most curious case for next season is Manchester City. This is still the core of Mancini's team (and even beyond Mancini), and it has now run it's course. Of the top teams in Europe, they have one of the oldest squads by average age. Yaya Toure has become a parody of a footballer, David Silva and Vincent Kompany's fitness records are poor and it is ruining them. Same for Aguero, and he has lost that explosiveness that allowed him to skip past defenders and lash it in on a consistent basis. His immobility was spotlighted on Wednesday where nearly all of his touches were so far away fro goal, and he couldn't get beyond anyone holding the ball up, he didn't even try. They've got cloggers like Nasri, Fernando, Demichelis, Bony and Mangala on the wage bill. Guys like Kolarov and Clichy were never good enough to begin with, the former has been awful this season. Zabaleta isn't the player he was. Sagna has done reasonably well, but he's not quite as good as he was. They need to overhaul their whole back four bar Otamendi, and even he is a bit of a question mark. In midfield, Fernandinho is a good player, but he's the only keeper IMO. Delph and Navas work hard and will be reasonable squad players, but they won't make the difference. Fernando is totally ordinary. Up top, Aguero is still capable despite losing a bit of his spark, and De Bruyne is top class. Sterling has it all to prove but it's been tough for him. Bony and Nasri should definitely be moved on. Silva will need to be phased out, but I don't know who by.

A lot over overhauling needed, and Pep will have the attraction to certain players, but they're still not definitely in the top 4 yet. The Madrid result could have flattened them and United or even West Ham could take advantage. They could slip against Arsenal, which is likely as City have only beaten one of the current top 8 (Southampton at home) this season. Their big game mentality has been pisspoor. Even with Guardiola, City could struggle next season. I think they have to go through what United did post-Fergie. Rip apart a very good but ageing team and start again, but Pellegrini has done no real phasing-out in his time at City. Guardiola could suffer from having to make too many changes at once, or making the changes gradually but having to persevere with players beyond their prime.

Whatever happens, I'd like to see them bin Yaya into the U21s for the rest of his contract. Make him train alone, travel alone, eat alone. The guy is a fud. He's been mouthing off about leaving since his first year there. I don't know how City fans put up with him. He even wears the armband when Kompany is injured, which is all the time. It is madness.

[Murrr]

49 minutes ago, Eupraxia said:

Cover your eyes, Murr and Gypsum, but I really hope Newcastle are relegated again. They need to pay the price for gross mismanagement and pitiful decision-making. I recall McClaren saying after the first seven or eight games that the only way Newcastle will get out of a relegation scrap is with huge financial investment. Bullshit. Do your job as a coach and football manager, and maximise the substantial human resources available to you, first. Sure, it's always going to be tough with a bumbling oaf like Fabricio Coloccini as your captain, but then handing it to a petulant, slack-jawed, and under-motivated Jonjo Shelvey was laughable. He is not captain material—he always appears to play for himself before the team. That said, I think Newcastle will stay up, as Rafa is a master at organising a rough-around-the-edges back four—even with midfielders playing at full-back, it seems.

I agree with all of this apart from the "I hope Newcastle get relegated" bit, obvs.

If we stay-up, we keep Rafa. Going down would be the biggest missed opportunity in the club's history, IMO. Guy's done a very, very good job thus far and I love him already.

[Soda Jerk]

I hope Newcastle stay up. The men in charge of making the football and the financial decisions are utter balloons, but they just shouldn't be in the position they are in. Now, Sunderland. There's a club that needs to keep circling the drain. The amount of money they've pissed up the wall on washed-up no hopers and total shithawks is unbelievable. They need to be binned into the Championship and not come back for a while.

But if it's not Newcastle, then it'll be Norwich. I do quite like them. Alex Neil is a good manager. Well, I don't know if he is actually. I just quite like him. Just relegate Sunderland and Villa and cancel Burnley's promotion. They've had enough chances. Fuck Burnley.

[Lemonade]

 

I do feel bad for Villa mostly because one of my mates is a die-hard fan and goes to every match. He posts pics of him and his mates at away days looking like they're having the best, messiest  days out ever even when they're getting pumped 3-0 at Watford or whatever. I don't think there's a sense of entitlement among them, just a desire to see their club run properly and players who aren't just picking up a wage. He posted this the day they went down:

"What a difference a year makes. That day was great. Pure joy. A reminder of how football should be. If you'd have told me that in a years time we'd be relegated and in complete disarray, I'd only half believe you because no one can balls it up like Aston villa. But I love this club. It's more than just overpaid empty headed man babies sniffing hippy crack, or kicking a nightclub door in, it's a frustrating, horrible gut wrenching effort every other Saturday. But I still go. I still go because misery loves company I guess. I go because I'm Aston villa. And I will be until I'm took. 
There's no tears from me because of relegation. I've had months to get used to it. We should have gone years ago. The premier league isn't about the game anymore. It's about selfie sticks and half and half scarves. Bet 365 and whatsapp. Young lads gobbling off on Instagram dressed as plastic hooligans. Some time going to real places in England, showing some real support might open a few eyes, or not. Guess there's only one way to find out. 
We'll meet again. 

#utv #vtid"

I hope they bounce back but I can't see it at least not straight away. That's a club in deep trouble IMO. Massive changes need to the squad, the staff and the boardroom. 

Glad to see my boyhood team Millwall  made the playoffs in league 1 at the first time of asking. Might even be playing Villa next season. 

Football has been weird this season. On the face of it, so many big clubs underperforming and smaller clubs overperforming, but is this the premier league just simply levelling out now there's so much money? 

[Eupraxia]

49 minutes ago, Lemonade said:

Football has been weird this season. On the face of it, so many big clubs underperforming and smaller clubs overperforming, but is this the premier league just simply levelling out now there's so much money? 

Good question, but I really don't believe there is a levelling out—I feel this season is an anomaly, although I hope I am wrong. 

Soda van Jerk's wonderful analysis of Manchester City highlights the moneyed clubs' short-comings over the past few years—their desperation for immediate success to justify the immediate financial investment. This has resulted in most of the moneyed clubs recruiting peak-age players with the emphasis on immediate success, rather than a structured recruitment system designed to sustain. City are paying the price for that now, as did Chelsea a few years back (and arguably this season). Although Chelsea do have a record of signing an array of young talent more recently, their reticence to field them on a regular basis has made that pursuit pointless, and the players have moved on accordingly (De Bruyne and Lukaku are two immediate examples that spring to mind). I guess it is all about balance, but Chelsea and City have been guilty of failing to find that sustainable balance, and many of their first teamers are on the decline.

With highly intelligent people like Guardiola and Conte coming in to these clubs, I feel both will be a lot stronger next year, as both managers have a track record of blending experienced peak-age players with younger unfinished talent into a playing framework that suits the skill-sets available. I guess some people would call that the holistic approach, or whatever. To me it's just common footballing sense.

It leaves a bitter taste in the mouth to say it, but I feel the top four to six next season will be as you were (in no particular order): Chelsea, Manchester City, Arsenal, Manchester United, Liverpool, and Tottenham.

[Murrr]

1 hour ago, Lemonade said:

 

I do feel bad for Villa mostly because one of my mates is a die-hard fan and goes to every match. He posts pics of him and his mates at away days looking like they're having the best, messiest  days out ever even when they're getting pumped 3-0 at Watford or whatever. I don't think there's a sense of entitlement among them, just a desire to see their club run properly and players who aren't just picking up a wage. He posted this the day they went down:

"What a difference a year makes. That day was great. Pure joy. A reminder of how football should be. If you'd have told me that in a years time we'd be relegated and in complete disarray, I'd only half believe you because no one can balls it up like Aston villa. But I love this club. It's more than just overpaid empty headed man babies sniffing hippy crack, or kicking a nightclub door in, it's a frustrating, horrible gut wrenching effort every other Saturday. But I still go. I still go because misery loves company I guess. I go because I'm Aston villa. And I will be until I'm took. 
There's no tears from me because of relegation. I've had months to get used to it. We should have gone years ago. The premier league isn't about the game anymore. It's about selfie sticks and half and half scarves. Bet 365 and whatsapp. Young lads gobbling off on Instagram dressed as plastic hooligans. Some time going to real places in England, showing some real support might open a few eyes, or not. Guess there's only one way to find out. 
We'll meet again. 

#utv #vtid"

I hope they bounce back but I can't see it at least not straight away. That's a club in deep trouble IMO. Massive changes need to the squad, the staff and the boardroom. 

Glad to see my boyhood team Millwall  made the playoffs in league 1 at the first time of asking. Might even be playing Villa next season. 

Football has been weird this season. On the face of it, so many big clubs underperforming and smaller clubs overperforming, but is this the premier league just simply levelling out now there's so much money? 

I fucking *hate* Aston Villa and was absolutely delighted when their relegation was confirmed. Why? Because I am a petty little shit and remember all the banners they made on the day they sent us down a few years ago:-

Get in the bin.

It's a pathetic little thing to hold onto, however, and I'm glad to finally be free of it. 

I'd feels sorry for their fans if they hadn't made those banners, TBH. Their plight is incredibly similar to ours. Fuck incompetent owners.

[Soda Jerk]

1 hour ago, Eupraxia said:

Good question, but I really don't believe there is a levelling out—I feel this season is an anomaly, although I hope I am wrong.

I agree. This season was an anomaly. An excellent anomaly, as it's been the most entertaining season in ages, but I don't see it happening again. The season is not even over yet, but Mahrez and Kante's agents are already making noise about summer moves. I think Leicester's squad will be thinking it was an anomaly as well. They'll pocket a lot of money for winning the league, but can Ranieri instill the hunger to go and do it again? Premier League titles are rarely defended well, and hasn't been done since 2009, and that was one of the very best teams in the world, that 06-09 United side. I'd really like to see them push again, but I don't think they will. I don't think they'll start next season with all of Vardy, Kante and Mahrez.

I do think there is some amount of leveling-out, but overall, it will continue to be the big clubs that prosper. But with the money in the league, teams like West Ham, Southampton, Everton, Stoke can attract very good players and push for positions around the top 4 or 6, as well as take a lot of points from the big sides playing with all the pressure and expectation. I can't see them overtaking the big clubs on a regular basis, but I think it will stop there being a gulf of quality and points between the top 4 and the rest, like their used to be. It will make the league a great spectacle, but the top sides may suffer in Europe against side like Madrid, Barca and Bayern, who are so far away from their league rivals in terms of quality and resources.

[Lemonade]

That's like a bad Sun headline. I'm almost willing to bet it was. 

[Eupraxia]

Aston Villa are openly supported by Prince William and David Cameron. As far as I'm concerned, Villa can get in the fucking sea. I am all for judging clubs based on their mainstream fan base.

[Soda Jerk]

Villa fans held the "sob on the Tyne" banner again today, and just added the word "again" to the end.

Still, their sense of entitlement is nothing compared to that of Everton supporters. You should have a read of the "Grand Old Team" forum. A lot of them believe they should be getting Mourinho in the summer, and believe that managing Everton is a much better prospect than any club he has been linked with in the last few months, due to the clubs limitless potential. Clubs such as a return to Inter Milan, a return to Real Madrid, y'know that biggest and most successful football club on earth? Or PSG and Man United both with their practically infinite financial resources. Nah, Jose should join Everton if he knows what's good for him. A few months ago they also seemed absolutely certain they were getting Ibrahimovic in the summer, because again, the best possible destination for him in world football is Everton, he'd be a lunatic to go anywhere else, and Everton could definitely swing the half a million quid a week that he's demanding (they couldn't) as well as give him a platform to achieve the success he has achieved throughout his career (they couldn't). The shit they pelted Moyes with was pretty crude as well. They gave him an enormous send off, then gave him pelters when he returned. The scenes of the United bus pulling up to Goodison Park a day or two before Moyes was sacked was brutal. Shithouses.

Watch any televised game at Goodison Park, they howl for every single thing way, way more than any other home supporters. The most entitled and the biggest whingers in the Premier League. Goodison Park is the whingiest ground in the league. No wonder Everton have the worst home record they've ever had in the Premier League this season. The players don't get any support from 30,000 throwing a wobbler because the referee didn't give them a throw in on the half way line.

Fuck Everton. If they could trade league places with Villa, I'd be happy with that. Hope yer Zlatan is ready for glamour ties like Rotherham away.

[Mr Owl PhD]

Not looking good for Newcastle now, which is a shame because I was keen to see what Rafa would do with them in the Premier League next season. 

This season has been interesting, to say the least, but next season will probably be just as much so.  At least partly this is because it's hard to know what to expect, so almost anything will be a surprise.  It could be 'the usual' teams winning everything and finishing at the top, but I expect at least some of them 'do a Chelsea' and plummet a bit.  It's a real possibility if players even slightly lose motivation or a good team gets a bit over the hill.  The need for 'instant results' at big clubs probably makes this more likely.

I'm wondering how the bigger clubs will look at what Leicester have done this season (and to a lesser extent teams like West Ham and Southampton).  Will they just think 'that's just a blip' or will they think there's something to learn from it.  In a way Leicester have won the league doing what teams used to do i.e. trying to play their best 11 as much as possible.  I'm not sure how easy that'll be to repeat with Champions League matches, so how they adapt to that will be worth watching.  Maybe some of the other clubs will try to be more consistent in their selections and not rotate as much though.  I can actually see the bigger clubs almost having a consistent A team and B team to cover different matches, rather than changing a few players here and there.

The other thing to watch will be transer policies.  There's lots of money coming in, so I guess clubs will be spending even more on average players than they have been doing.  But Leicester have shown that there are good players to be found in unlikely places.  They've also done the same thing that Clough did with Nottingham Forest and brought in a few 'washed up' players with something to prove.  It's been startling in the past few seasons how bad a lot of the big money signings have been in the Premier League.  A lot of £20M+ signings have been underwhelming and few have been anything better than qualified successes.  This in part explains the leveling off of standards across the league - extra money hasn't brought in significantly better players.  It might all go very predictable again, but I think it's at least as likely that we'll see a bit of a shift of approach from a lot of clubs and perhaps some more surprises.

[Lemonade]

Christian Fuchs is my favourite person ever. 

Edited May 8, 2016 by Lemonade

[Soda Jerk]

Vardy is such a prat. Even with his diving, unsporting gloating and his bouts of racist and threatening behavior, I find it difficult to not like him. He continually questions my own moral compass and I begin to hate myself. A lot like Eupaxia and his recent rooting for Liverpool.

Football brings out the worst in us all. Chat shit get banged.

[Lemonade]

Cool to see Middlesborough back, and I'd be happy to see Derby or Sheffield Wednesday make it back up, Brighton at a push, just as long as it isn't Hull. Fuck them. Shit club, another shit owner, and forever associated with Phil Brown. 

[Soda Jerk]

Boro, Brighton and Wednesday would have been a great promoted 3. I didn't want Burnley. Dyche is very likeable but they've had their chances and have gone right back down twice. Give another club a go.

[Soda Jerk]

The state of this fucking chode

[TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH]

Eidur Gudjohnsen has been picked in the Iceland Euro 2016 squad.

[Soda Jerk]

Sunderland. Another year of them pointlessly meandering around the relegation zone but probably just missing the drop. Grim. They've put some streak together to be fair, but I was really hoping they wouldn't and Newcastle would climb out instead.

One of the best seasons in recent times now has probably the dullest possible final day with nothing significant to play for. Arsenal can perhaps finish 2nd, but that doesn't mean much. United can still finish 4th with a win at home to Bournemouth, so long as City lose away to Swansea. 5th to 7th is up for grabs depending on results.

Snooze.

[Eupraxia]

A lot of people like to bash Sam Allardyce and his methods, but old jowly chops just doesn't do relegation. A proactive and inspired appointment made at the correct time—whereas Newcastle made a reactive appointment when it was already far too late.

[Soda Jerk]

Truth. Allardyce is a good manager, and I find him strangely likeable. Happy for him. Just not for Sunderland. My dislike for them is totally irrational, based on absolutely nothing, just as football rivalries should be.
 

So that's Bobby Martinez sacked. A Championship-level manager with the facade of playing 'pretty' football, despite playing hoofball the last two years at Everton, with no success. He had the benefit of David Moyes' hard to beat defence in his first season. Once he put his own touch on the back four, he totally Wiganized Everton.

They need to get a name in quick to persuade some of their bigger players to stay. Lukaku and Barkley are itching to get out, apparently. I think Stones will get a lot of attention this summer, though I do think he is incredibly overrated. He is one of those defenders who is good on the ball, but isn't actually all that good at actual defending. If you can dribble the ball into midfield and play a decent forward pass to your forwards, you're a £40m defender. Modern football is weird.

Frank de Boer has just quit Ajax today too. Suspicious timing, given the Martinez sacking. It could be him.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Soda van Jerk

[Lemonade]

1 hour ago, Eupraxia said:

A lot of people like to bash Sam Allardyce and his methods, but old jowly chops just doesn't do relegation. A proactive and inspired appointment made at the correct time—whereas Newcastle made a reactive appointment when it was already far too late.

Truth. He's old school as fuck and has obvious limitations but he always gets results.

[Murrr]

Me today:-

Meh. Maybe next season'll be more fun. Last time certainly was.