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2015/16 Soccer Thread.


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40 minutes ago, Gypsum_Fantastic said:

 

This is getting silly. Geniunley thought you were referring to ROI there.

I was referring to the colloquial Poland, which in this case was the ROI and a fucking clever as fuck remark as Poland also qualified. A comment worthy of staggering accolades  

And obviously a triple banger as he meant Scotland.

 

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15 hours ago, ca_gere said:

Do any teams actually get punted out of this tournament or does everyone get through regardless of results?

Shit new format. Top 2 through, bottom 2 go home is how it should be. 

This. The England Slovakia match was mostly pointless because both knew they were pretty much through. England didn't even bother trying to win the group, which is a major cock-up by Hodgeson. Slovakia could have overtaken England, but didn't even try to win either. It made for an awful spectacle. The group stages has been awful, as most 3rd team places go through anyway.

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HUN/POR was a weird game. It just kinda popped into life, shit tons of efforts and goals and no defending, then went back into its shell when the job was done. Folk jumping on the slag Ronaldo bandwagon is annoying. The man wants to win, end of story. He's surrounded by lesser players and it must be frustrating. At least he's not trying 50 yard overhead volleys and shrugging when they don't go in like Zlatan.

I'm finding it hard to get that excited for the likes of Iceland, ROI, NI and Albania making it through to the octo-finals. It's not a minnow story if there's a whole school of minnows making it into the big pond, or whatever that metaphor is meant to mean.

If only one of those teams made it through i'd be happier. 

That said, it's pretty cool seeing all the 'home' nations get through.

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EngLOLnd.

Never felt so unmoved after an England loss. When they were pushing for an equaliser in the last 10 minutes, I kind of didn't want them to get it. I started to root for Iceland more as the game went on.

 

Raheem Sterling though. How on earth is that little fud a £50m footballer? And Rooney. How on earth is that bigger fud still a footballer?

Kyle Walker and Marcus Rashford were England's best players this tournament, even though Rashford only got an accumulated 15 minutes.

Joe Hart is shit.

 

G'wan Wales!

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I can't get over how bad that performance was from England. As overpaid as he is (as are the entire team) I can't help but feel sorry for sterling being used as a scapegoat the whole tournament. When there's no one near him to collect a pass and a slow build-up has meant the entire opposition team is ahead of him with 10 yards to the touchline he's bound to lose the ball or get his cross blocked. Added to by the fact the equivalent position on the other side was either filled by a marauding Kyle walker (this tournament's Ashley Cole - I.e. The only player who turned up) or a dragged-wide Sturridge who should be the one coming close to sterling to collect passes. Total imbalance to begin with, and that's down to the team organization. Obviously his bad touches didn't help but once teams started closing down the right side to snuff out the threat (as happened every single game he played) the onus should have been on other players to step up and nobody did.

Iceland should get all the praise - they nullified the England attack without resorting to last ditch defending or playing like Greece. 

Where do England go from here? I think it'd be a mistake to appoint another big name (foreign or otherwise). As much pressure should be taken off as possible - pressure to play certain players and pressure to perform. They should play a formation where players aren't out of their normal position and smaller names who do the job for their team each week considered. That means no Eric Dier in a role he's taken up last year, no Wayne Rooney at all, no Kane in a front 3, no smalling in a back 3, no Hart without line hugging wing backs even. Lift an entire midfield from one team if needs be - players who are used to playing around each other not big names that kinda fit together.

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The fact Southgate is getting laughed at for being the bookies favourite tells you everything about the expectations and delusions of grandeur around the England team. Do people not realize how good a job he's doing with the U20s and did with the U21s? Won one tournament, final of another. Yet, people are calling for Blanc who doesn't speak English, has probably never managed an English player (beckham aside who manages himself, I think I'm correct in saying) and has only managed in France. Even Southgate's record at boro was good. 

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14 minutes ago, ca_gere said:

Mid table premier league, one relegation year then sacked when within one point of the league leaders. Do fans really blame Southgate for relegation and ongoing championship status?

I feel like it's important to say that I like Southgate, I think he's a good fella and I reckon we could be pals but we were really bad in that relegation season and the cumulative effect of the questionable/outright bad signings he'd made since taking charge came home to roost. We scored 28 goals in 38 games which is pathetic - to put it in perspective, Aston Villa scored 27 this season. The second half of the season was an extended resignation letter from the Premier League with us winning 2 games from new year onwards.

The players looked like they didn't care and Southgate didn't know what to do about it. It was a lot like watching Newcastle under McLaren this season or England's debacle last night. In fact, the first thing that came to mind after the game yesterday was the third last game of the relegation season when we were soundly beaten by Alan Shearer's Newcastle United 3-1 having gone 1-0 up within 5 minutes thanks to an own goal. It was a performance that summed up the whole season.

I didn't think we should have stuck by him after that but once the decision to keep him around was made I wanted him to get a fair crack of the whip the next season so I did think he was harshly done by when he was sacked but we were starting to look a bit shaky while West Brom and Newcastle were both coming good. The 5-0 shellacking from West Brom didn't help his case at all. That said, I don't think he can be blamed for how long it's taken us to get back up, that one's all on Strachan. Fuck off Gordon Strachan.

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a 'good record' was probably overstating it I admit, but for his first coaching role I don't think too much blame should be put on his shoulders for relegation. Is it just my odd memory or was the signing of Macaroni the start of the downfall? Never sign a pasta. It was as if to say 'nope we're not gonna get over Ravanelli and Juninho', we need some foreigners with funny names.

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Like you, @ca_gere, I find it astonishing that Hodgson persisted with that system that firstly just didn't work, but secondly that he had to shoehorn his players into. Fine, if he's cracking on with a system that maybe suits the players he has available but wasn't quite working out in games then that's almost understandable, but wow...

WHY did he not just go for a sort of Spursy midfield diamond? It allows some of your most important players (Dier, Walker, Alli, Kane and Rose) to play the system they've been playing all season. 

Width from full backs, Dier shielding your (poor) centre backs, with the ability to accommodate two up front (Kane +1, he persisted with Sturridge but it should have been Vardy IMO).

Playing Rooney in midfield should have meant that Alli missed out (for clarity, I would have played Alli ahead of Rooney, but I understand why Wazza got the nod as captain). Then the midfield should have been made up of ENERGY. Having not taken Drinkwater (who should have gone in place of an unfit Wilshere IMO, and started in the XI) - he probably should have gone with Milner first, partnered with whomever was fit - Henderson? If there was a doubt over his fitness then to take both him and Wilshere was a disaster. Henderson looked pretty good vs Slovakia I thought.

There's also an argument that Hart is not even the best goalkeeper in the squad now. Forster anyone?

So, with personnel Hodgson took:

wkhekO3.jpg

My much better version:

PWRpeKi.jpg

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27 minutes ago, ca_gere said:

a 'good record' was probably overstating it I admit, but for his first coaching role I don't think too much blame should be put on his shoulders for relegation. Is it just my odd memory or was the signing of Macaroni the start of the downfall? Never sign a pasta. It was as if to say 'nope we're not gonna get over Ravanelli and Juninho', we need some foreigners with funny names.

Macaroni joined in 2002 and left during Southgate's first season in charge. He did a whole lot of nothing and then popped up to score some of the most crucial goals in the history of the club in the UEFA Cup run.

He (GS, not MM) was a great player and a great captain for us too. I felt terrible for him when things weren't going well as his first season coincided with the only period that I was able to regularly go to home games and with Viduka and Yakubu up front we were a genuinely dangerous side. The failure to adequately replace them is what ultimately did us in. We were able to scrape by for a year with Alves/Aliadiere/Mido plus some goals from midfield but once the midfield goals dried up we had the least scary attack you could hope to come up against and that was that.

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Townsend out with Matt Ritchie apparently coming-in to replace him. Townsend leaving is pretty disappointing because he was great for us, had already said he wanted to stay, and he's joining a club that's going nowhere to work under a manager who has a pretty horrific track record when it comes to wingers (Bolasie aside). I guess the Premier League trumps all of that, though.

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He's done alright with Zaha too, tbf. Especially considering Zaha is a bit of a diva who just does whatever he wants, he's somehow managed to get a fair bit of consistency out of him.

His record with your wingers was a different story. E.g. Obertan. He bought Obertan. After watching Obertan look like a fish out of water even in dead-rubber League Cup games for United. How could he have watched those games Obertan played for Man Utd and thought "Yeah, he's the one. Get the cheque book."

Ritchie and Gayle coming in is pretty decent though. I'm a big fan of Dwight Gayle, and it's weird he wasn't playing up top every week for Palace, and the likes of Wickham and even Adebloodybayor were getting games ahead of him. Gayle's a solid finisher and he's very good technically too, but not had many chances to show it as he only seems to get 10 or 15 minutes here and there. Good signing.

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44 minutes ago, Soda van Jerk said:

He's done alright with Zaha too, tbf. Especially considering Zaha is a bit of a diva who just does whatever he wants, he's somehow managed to get a fair bit of consistency out of him.

His record with your wingers was a different story. E.g. Obertan. He bought Obertan. After watching Obertan look like a fish out of water even in dead-rubber League Cup games for United. How could he have watched those games Obertan played for Man Utd and thought "Yeah, he's the one. Get the cheque book."

Kinda sums-up The King's management style, this. If you listen to enough Pardew interviews, you'll hear certain words/phrases come-up time and time again, "little bit of magic" being on of them. Pardew's "little bit of magic" refers to the players that he just won't give any instructions to, because, in theory, they should have the skill and/or initiative to create chances on their own. It's what he does with Zaha and Bolasie, and what he did with Ben Arfa (before things got weird and he started mumbling about his defensive contribution) and Sissoko with us.

His long ball style revolves around getting these players on the ball as quickly as possible, then "letting the magic happen." It gives these players plenty of ball-time, but it's deeply flawed. I'd actually argue that Zaha is a very inconsistent player who could benefit from closer man management: something that is seemingly beyond Pardew. Same with Bolasie, really. Eye-catching, useful players for sure, brilliant in bursts, but statistically underwhelming.

Townsend is an old-school "get yer head down and run" type of winger with a wicked long-range shot. Not sure how well-equipped he is for Pardew's system, but he's probably getting paid more money to play in a better league, so I kinda get it. Short careers, maximise earnings, etc. 

I think Gayle will be great. He has a good goals-per-minute ratio and I've always liked the look of him whenever I've seen him play. Very quick, which is something we're lacking in our front-line.

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