SQA curriculum for excellence

[Moon Moon]

That could work. Fail your exams and you're automatically signed up to the Army. Incentive!

yeh that's what we want to see, kids who fail their exams are most likely delinquents in the army. Most likely there to cause trouble.

[Moon Moon]

YoungA with access to weapons...........

Im doing quite well in medal of honour to be fair.

[Skacel]

yeh that's what we want to see, kids who fail their exams are most likely delinquents in the army. Most likely there to cause trouble.

Learn them some discipline!

[James Broonbreed]

Yeah, get them learned good!

[Old Gold]

Turn them into soylent green, that's what I say.

[Skacel]

Better get your bags packed, Moon Moon. The amount of time you spend on here you'll be heading to boot camp before the summer is out.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Skacel

[James Broonbreed]

Filthpact needs you!

[HeinzHines]

MM are you able to vote in the upcoming independence referendum?

If so, #SalmondsScotland.

[Moon Moon]

MM are you able to vote in the upcoming independence referendum?

If so, #SalmondsScotland.

I am, it's a no from me

[jon]

My goodness, what a thread. A few things: CfE is more than you state here. Theoretically, from S1 to S3 all pupils will receive a "broad general education" (BGE) which should allow them to study a wide variety of subjects without the constraints of formal examinations. Then, S4 to S6 is for accreditation, generally speaking from National 3 upwards. N3 is assessed solely in school, and requires the student to meet certain standards that are meant to demonstrate understanding and/or analysis appropriate to that level. At N4, the same applies except the standards are higher and the candidate must also produce an Added Value Unit (basically an extended piece of project work). For N5, a successful candidate must meet all of the standards at N5 level, produce an assignment, and sit an externally marked final exam. Higher and Advanced higher remain broadly the same, although with some alterations. It is a noble idea.

Now, the problems... I am a History teacher, so I can only speak for my subject, but here goes. N5 has significantly more content, higher analytical expectations and harder assessments than Standard Grade ever did. It is more equivalent to Int 2 (another qualification that is in the process of being phased out). However, it would be theoretically possible to pass N4 (there are no differentiated grades as there are in N5) in a week if a student was so inclined. I know this because I had a student this year who was off on long term sickness, but came back towards the end of the year. In three weeks, I had got her through N3 and then N4, as far as the letter of the law is concerned. There are definite issues there. N3 is, frankly, insultingly easy. Foundy Foundy, if you will.

Furthermore, the SQA are adamant that there "is not, nor will there ever be, a syllabus for National 5 History". That's madness. Leaving aside the fact that you can buy SQA endorsed N5 textbooks which "cover the entire syllabus"', it means that each teacher or department has to make a best guess as to what to teach for, for example, the domestic impact of WW1 in Scotland. Do I teach Red Clydeside? The Rent Strikes? Any of the myriad of other impacts? How do I know what the kids might be asked about in their exam if there is no syllabus? Well, your guess is as good as mine.

Add in to that the fact that many schools have completely failed to timetable correctly for the Nationals (I had to teach N5 over S3 and S4, as I did under SG, due to the fact that we actually LOST time in the reshuffle) and you near farce. The idea that (as, by the letter of the law, we should) it is possible to teach N5 History, complete with more content and harder assessment expectations than SG, in one year of three hours a week when we taught SG IN TWO years of three hours a week is almost hilariously ridiculous.

I should stress that this is all personal opinion, and is no wat representative of the school I work in, but I thought a bit of clarity might be useful in this thread. IT CAN BE DONE, as the glorious SQA insist on telling us...

Edited July 19, 2014 by jon

[Scootray]

Tl;dr (on my phone at least)

[jon]

Sorry, let me try that again in N2 form:

GOOD IDEA GO BYE BYE TIME TIME

Honestly...

[Cloud]

Jon, because my job depends on knowing how it really works in UK schools, can you answer a couple of questions for me please?

 

- Does the old system of having to pass a lower level qualification to get into a higher level one still exist, or is it merely up to the school to decide if someone can or not? I mean - do they have to go N3->N4->N5->Higher->Advanced Higher, or can they just enter at the stage that they can manage? My school was pretty open minded about people jumping straight into Higher whatever if the teacher agreed, but I had friends in other schools who were forced to do Int 2 first if they didn't have a relevant Standard Grade first.

 

- How many (assessed) subjects do they now take in S4? 7/8 like before, or what?

[Paranoid Android]

Furthermore, the SQA are adamant that there "is not, nor will there ever be, a syllabus for National 5 History". That's madness. Leaving aside the fact that you can buy SQA endorsed N5 textbooks which "cover the entire syllabus"', it means that each teacher or department has to make a best guess as to what to teach for, for example, the domestic impact of WW1 in Scotland. Do I teach Red Clydeside? The Rent Strikes? Any of the myriad of other impacts? How do I know what the kids might be asked about in their exam if there is no syllabus? Well, your guess is as good as mine.

 

This is absolutely ridiculous. If it as you say how on earth could anyone come up with this?

[Moon Moon]

Jon, because my job depends on knowing how it really works in UK schools, can you answer a couple of questions for me please?

- Does the old system of having to pass a lower level qualification to get into a higher level one still exist, or is it merely up to the school to decide if someone can or not? I mean - do they have to go N3->N4->N5->Higher->Advanced Higher, or can they just enter at the stage that they can manage? My school was pretty open minded about people jumping straight into Higher whatever if the teacher agreed, but I had friends in other schools who were forced to do Int 2 first if they didn't have a relevant Standard Grade first.

- How many (assessed) subjects do they now take in S4? 7/8 like before, or what?

usually it's nat 4 or 5 you start at but can get moved down. If you pass the exam or if your national 4 it's a unit pass then you move up. In some subjects you can crash them for example, if your doing higher English that year you can drop into higher rmps (religious moral and philosophical studies) and others if your doing higher English. Or if your doing higher history you can crash higher modern studies even if you haven't done it before. We now take 6 subjects.

[jon]

Cloud, there is a LOT of variation from school to school, but broadly speaking the position is this:

 

The traditional pathway of SG>Higher>Advanced Higher is being moved away from. Theoretically, any student could undertake any level of qualification at any point between S4 and S6. A very able kid could, for example, attempt Higher in S4 rather than having to sit N5 first. Also, a student could study N5 level material in S4 but not sit the exam, and then sit Higher the following year. In practice, that tends not to be the case, for the moment at least. In my school, we expect an S4 N5 pass as an entry requirement to Higher in S5. That may change, but my feeling is that will remain the norm, even if unofficially. As for kids not sitting any exam until they do Higher, my feeling is that it's crazy not to allow kids experience of formal exams and everything that goes with them before they sit what will still be the most important school qualification they attempt. Exam practice is vital, and SG/N5 provide that as well as providing qualifications in their own right.

 

Your second point is much more controversial, and there is no set answer. Some schools only allow 6 N5s, some will allow 8. It is very much dependent on the individual school and (often) parental pressure.

 

I could go on, but you get the jist!

[jon]

'Droid, tell me about it! We've been battering our heads off walls all year. It's lunacy, and will have to result in at least a defacto syllabus. There are currently "mandatory" areas (for example, the domestic impact of WW1 on Scotland), and the SQA then provide "illustrative" examples of the sort of thing that could be taught under those mandatory headings. That is, in effect, the syllabus, but it allows the SQA to theoretically ask questions on material outwith the illustrative content and justify that by saying it was reasonable to expect that teachers would have covered that material. Again, I'm very doubtful that they would do that (they have to make themselves look good, and intentionally tripping up kids isn't in their interest, clearly), but it's certainly a worry. What's more concerning is that those bits of illustrative content have changed over the last year so, for example, I had to abandon Germany in the 1930s to cover the impact of WW1 on Scottish agriculture as it appeared in the SQA documentation online well after I'd actually taught the topic.

 

Ho hum.

[jon]

In reference to the OP, I should also say that National 3 (or indeed any National qualification) is available in every subject. For example, I had a Spanish kid join my class for most of S4. He had very rudimentary English, but I assessed him at N3 level, collated the evidence, and awarded him the qualification. If your school are telling you that N3 is only available in English and Maths, I'm afraid they are outright wrong.