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Russia's Gay Games?

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Im in two minds about watching any of it. I think the whole gay rights thing is awful. Im all for ioc political neutrality but I think this could have been a huge opportunity for the ioc to do something positive on the world stage instead of sweeping it under the carpet.

That said I love a bit of sport and as much as I want to boycott the whole thing i dont want to miss out on any action.

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Im in two minds about watching any of it. I think the whole gay rights thing is awful. Im all for ioc political neutrality but I think this could have been a huge opportunity for the ioc to do something positive on the world stage instead of sweeping it under the carpet.

That said I love a bit of sport and as much as I want to boycott the whole thing i dont want to miss out on any action.

I heard the beginnings of an interesting take on the gay rights thing yesterday, but it was only the headline / intro part - didn't actually hear the debate (and I haven't read any further, so this may all be a tad misinformed...).

 

Anyway - I've heard the sensationalised stories about banning gay people in Russia and saw some of that Panorama documentary the other week and the attitude towards homosexuality is shocking.

 

But - the thing I heard yesterday was that the law that has been passed in Russia is to ban homosexual propaganda.  THAT's the law that everyone's so het up about?  I disagree with it but it's hardly chopping off the dicks of gay men.  And the interesting take on it was that there quite a few US states that already have similar laws along with many other countries in the world.

 

As I said - I didn't hear the full story/debate, but if that's all correct, there seems to have been a bit of an over the top reaction to it all.

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I heard the beginnings of an interesting take on the gay rights thing yesterday, but it was only the headline / intro part - didn't actually hear the debate (and I haven't read any further, so this may all be a tad misinformed...).

 

Anyway - I've heard the sensationalised stories about banning gay people in Russia and saw some of that Panorama documentary the other week and the attitude towards homosexuality is shocking.

 

But - the thing I heard yesterday was that the law that has been passed in Russia is to ban homosexual propaganda.  THAT's the law that everyone's so het up about?  I disagree with it but it's hardly chopping off the dicks of gay men.  And the interesting take on it was that there quite a few US states that already have similar laws along with many other countries in the world.

 

As I said - I didn't hear the full story/debate, but if that's all correct, there seems to have been a bit of an over the top reaction to it all.

 

Ermmm, Gay propaganda is hardly on a par with Nazi propaganda so banning it is pretty much the same as saying it is. It doesn't undermine and shouldn't offend the majority of people so why ban it? It's just like saying "what you do disgusts me so we won't let you talk about it or advertise any events". Where does it stop? Ludicrous.

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Yeah - okay.  Get the point with gay propaganda.

 

There is still a valid point that there is outcry around the world at this, including from nations who have similar laws.  That's the real point the thing I only briefly heard was trying to make I think.

 

So - yeah, what I'm trying to say - back to ca_gere not being sure if he will watch or not - would you watch it if it was in the US?  Probably.  Apparently, they have similar laws in some US states.

 

So the "over the top" reaction that I was speaking about - I agree, it isn't an over the top reaction, but more like double standards perhaps?

Edited by Gladstone

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I watched interviews with Russian anti-gay groups, and they were making parallels between homosexuality and paedophilia.

 

Fucked up country.

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Yeah - okay.  Get the point with gay propaganda.

 

There is still a valid point that there is outcry around the world at this, including from nations who have similar laws.  That's the real point the thing I only briefly heard was trying to make I think.

 

So - yeah, what I'm trying to say - back to ca_gere not being sure if he will watch or not - would you watch it if it was in the US?  Probably.  Apparently, they have similar laws in some US states.

 

So the "over the top" reaction that I was speaking about - I agree, it isn't an over the top reaction, but more like double standards perhaps?

 

The majority of the US laws are restricted to what is taught in schools - mostly that they can't teach homosexuality as a positive thing.  Those laws are totally bollocks, but it's hardly a scratch on the shit that gay Russians have to put up with.

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The majority of the US laws are restricted to what is taught in schools - mostly that they can't teach homosexuality as a positive thing.  Those laws are totally bollocks, but it's hardly a scratch on the shit that gay Russians have to put up with.

Aye - like I said, I didn't actually get to hear the fully story/debate.

 

I did watch a decent chunk of the Panorama documentary and was taken aback at how backwards the views were.  One guy (very high up in the Russian Government - forget his name / position (I was watching in a bit of a haze after a night of no sleep and feeling terrible...)) basically trying to sound all welcoming and open to all pretty much used that old fashioned:

 

"Nothing against raging homos, so long as they don't do it in public or try to shag me"

 

sort of thing.

 

I know very little on the subject - was just interested after hearing that snippet on the radio the other day if this was something getting blown way out of proportion but it sounds like it isn't at all.

 

The thing that does still irk me about the whole thing is that there are still an awful lot of people who think like that Russian guy I mention above.  I hear shit like that from people I grew up with (including my family) quite a lot.  Stuck in the past, narrow-minded, never been south of Stonehaven types.

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Banning gay propaganda makes the statement that being gay is not okay is Russia. And given some of the stories of homophobic violence coming out of Russia, that really isn't the message they should be sending out. It's fucking horrific.

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Despite the fact that it's a despicable law in the first place since it implies that homosexuality is something you can convert children to/is a choice and linking homosexuality to pedophilia, the actual wording of the law is pretty vague and so open to interpretation that it makes doing anything related to gay rights in Russia almost impossible, including LGBT pride parades/festivals. 

 

So yeah, fuck that noise.

Edited by KarmaTsunami

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As above, it should be taken as part of the wider culture of anti-gay hatred ("you're not scared; you're an asshole" etc.) in Russia, with the law preventing anything which might redress that. "Propoganda" would include the Canadian video at the top of the video; the term doesn't have to refer to extremist distortion. Add to that the corruption which has clearly been going on that the same time. I think the IOC (and indeed, these days, FIFA) is a frankly vile organisation, getting into bed with these kind of regimes, with horrible political and human consequences, then holding up their hands and saying "hey, political neutrality". Fuck the IOC, tbh.

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I watched interviews with Russian anti-gay groups, and they were making parallels between homosexuality and paedophilia.

 

Fucked up country.

Did Putin not recently say something along the lines of "we welcome gay people....but just leave the children alone"?

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So - yeah, what I'm trying to say - back to ca_gere not being sure if he will watch or not - would you watch it if it was in the US?  Probably.  Apparently, they have similar laws in some US states.

 

 

Do they? Point me to an example.

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I definitely don't think there's been an over-the-top reaction at all. I think there hasn't been enough of a reaction. I'm a little bit surprised not a single country hasn't pulled out completely to be honest.

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I said 'apparently' because that's what the radio said at the top of the debate. I didn't hear the actual debate itself. So 'apparently' they do but I don't know.

It was a Radio 4 show which I'm sure would be available on the Iplayer I'll see if I can find it.

But yeah - I agree there hasn't been an over-reaction. The start of that show seemed to belittle what the law had been passed was to do - I just thought it was an interesting take on the whole thing.

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More effort than asking someone else to look out a link.

 

RIngs a bell now. That's equally wack. If Texas got an olympics and the Governer was all 'nae gays touching our kids' I'd have the same reaction.

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So going by my Facebook feed, a few weeks back everyone was losing their mind and calling to boycott due to Russias dodgy stance on gays and most other things, now its all 'huzzah we are winning bronze for the snowball throw'/'isnt curling great?'.

Except Pussy Riot. They are still committed. Seem like total fannies but still.

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Except Pussy Riot. They are still committed. Seem like total fannies but still.

 

A riot of fannies, no less.

Edited by Eupraxia
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I still haven't watched any of it. I feel like I've accomplished nothing and missed out on a lot of sport because of it, but my intentions are right I suppose. I still think it's a joke that the whole thing wasn't taken more seriously.

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