Woody Allen

[Gladstone]

I 100% agree with that - there's a balance to be struck between supporting victims of abuse and upholding the "innocent until proven guilty" philosophy. Anonymity of the accused in particularly high-profile cases, especially in the early stages of investigation, might be a good idea.

 

xx

I've never quite understood why it's okay for the name of accused persons to be released.

 

Not just high profile cases but anyone.  If I was wrongly accused of sexually assaulting someone or worse (or even of something far less serious) I would be devastated for my name to be published in the papers as an accused person whilst a trial was going on.  Being found innocent is nowhere near as big as the story itself.  People would always have their doubts.

 

A guy that went to my school committed suicide a few years ago after a girl accused him of rape.  Now, nobody actually knows the truth here but his family and friends strongly believe that it was a false accusation and the thought of going through the trial, his name being dragged through the mud, his word against hers, etc. etc. was too much for him and he threw himself off a cliff.  People who knew him well (I didn't) don't think he was even remotely capable of doing something bad, let alone rape - I'm inclined to believe he was innocent.  Absolutely brutal if that was a false accusation and it led directly to his death.

 

Anonymity may have been enough to make him see the accusation through with the police and any trial if there was one, knowing that his name wouldn't have been reported.  Maybe not though.

[jester1470]

The phrase "no smoke without fire" is such a dangerous one and one i have heard bandied about a lot in this case, of course there is smoke without fire, ask Chris Jeffries. Another worrying thing i have seen is people saying: "I never liked that Woody Allen, he always seemed a bit odd and looked funny" - ah well then he must be a pedophile if he looks like one and is a bit odd, stands to reason, it scares me that in this day and age people still think you can look at someone and that will tell you if they're a pedophile. I think where it comes to child abuse in particular then we seem to always err on the side of the accuser nowadays which isn't a bad thing, however in the case of Woody Allen this has been investigated and the majority decision was that Dylan was coached from Mia and couldn't tell fantasy from reality, and if there was any doubt in anyone's mind, contrary to the reports I'm reading, i don't believe for a second he would have been allowed to adopt his 2 daughters with Soon Yi.

 

I find the whole thing very strange, i have little doubt Dylan believes this but I also believe this was something that was planted in her by Mia Farrow, who is as messed up as they come apparently. Even one of Mia's own kids has said that here was a lot of brainwashing going on at that time in that house and looking back they are very uncomfortable about some of the stuff she did. It's a tough one, and when Amanda Palmer posted the link to the Daily Beast I was shocked at the amount of people calling her a rape apologist etc, when all i saw it as was a different, but relevant viewpoint. I think that both sides of any story should be heard (she had posted Dylan Farrow's open letter first) and it doesn't make you an apologist if you question what someone has said in the interest of trying to see both sides.If it happened he should be punished to the full extents of the law, but first of all it has to be determined if it did happen, and until then both sides have to be explored in a way that causes the minimum of anxiety to both people.

[The Milner]

Aye - the guy who plays Kevin Webster?  That's exactly who I was thinking of when I was writing that post.

 

I was sure he was going to be guilty as there's no smoke without fire etc. etc. and just about everyone we've heard of recently since the Jimmy Saville story broke there has at least been something to it.

 

I was astonished when it came out that this guy was innocent and ashamed of myself for automatically thinking the guy was guilty.

 

 

Has there tho? Saville obviously was at it, as was Watkins (but that was an extreme case), then we had the corrie guy who was cleared, the other corrie actor is up on trial at the mo, but that one seems to follow a similar story path as the first, and i can see him being found not guilty. The Rolf Harris one hasnt been proven either way as of yet, and that DJ is on trial right now, again its not conclusive anything has happened.

 

What could be worrying is what happens if all the remaining accused celebrities are found not guilty. Does that stop people who were accused of coming forward because they have seen other famous people get off with it, or does it indicate an extremely worrying trend of people making up false claims of abuse to high profile people, and the Police being too eager to push them to trial? Neither scenario is good.

 

i would agree that keeping the accused persons name out of the public eye would be fair, as it stands the accuser gets immunity, but the accused is labeled for life, even if found not guilty, how can that be fair in a modern society? 

 

With this case, im still struggling to understand why someone would believe it more now because of the letter. The evidence, or supposive evidence was there before, and wasnt acted on, he was also allowed to adopt kids after that, why does this letter mean that the supposive evidence must be true? 

[Stroopy121]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ore - Interesting reading on the subject of false arrests for these kinds of crimes.

 

xx

[Jaaakkkeee]

I know of someone who has been accused of rape. Not by the person who was raped, but by a friend of hers. I don't know the guy but friends of his seem to say he could never do it, where as friends of the possible victim say he definitely did. It's a horrible situation to be in for either parties depending on what the truth is. I always try and keep in the "innocent until proven guilty" mindset. But take accusations seriously. It's a balance that works well when it's done right. Bit harsh to say Woody Allen did it, also a bit harsh to say Mia Farrow "groomed" her daughter in to believing he did it. Until cold hard facts are out in the open, all we can ever say is maybe. But we shouldn't ask for Allen's head, but at the same time we shouldn't distrust the accusations because of lack of proof.

 

I'm rambling but I think I made at least one coherent thought there.

[ca_gere]

Good articles posted above. I'm coming round to the idea that it may be a vengeful plot - which is good news for Woody Allen fans but sad news for actual victims of abuse (if that's the truth). I read the Weide article thinking it was written from the standpoint of an Allen supporter with motive (his film being thrown into disrepute) but that may well not be the case. My kneejerk reaction was to think he's guilty (because it was coming from the victim's mouth and because of the recent track record of respected celebrities who have turned out to be diddlers) - that was wrong of me. I think the pessimist inside me was having a allen-esque 'what's the point?! Everyone's a diddler' attitude towards it. 

[The Milner]

But again, of late, only one has been convicted, Saville clearly would have been but he is dead, so its hardly a track record of celebs being pedo's, there are others on trial, but do the cases hold any more water than the corrie actor who was found not guilty? I think its very dangerous ground to see a celeb accused and take the assumption he is guilty. 

 

Personally speaking i still feel the onus has to be on proving someones guilt, not proven someones innocence. 

[colb]

I think the only things that we can say for certain are:

 

Mia Farrow and Woody Allen had a hugely dysfunctional relationship and the fallout from that has done a lot of damage to the people around them.

Neither Mia Farrow or Woody Allen seem to be very nice people.

Both have a track record of making horrendous relationship decisions and not really caring about the consequences or showing any remorse.

 

Whether the allegations are true or false Dylan Farrow and her brother have clearly been seriously affected by two people that don't seem to give much of a fuck about them as anything other than collateral.

[Old Gold]

I still think it's strange that this thing has been actively aired in public by the victim and her family at a prime opportunity for max publicity.  Also, it could be that twitter is a rubbish medium for weighing in on these things, but the Farrow clan's messages against Allen seem more akin to the kind of crass heckle you'd see in the Daily Mail comment section than heartfelt support for their family member.

[Jaaakkkeee]

That's the thing, what I've seen of this isn't "we need to help Dylan and others in her situation." It's just been "lets get Woody Allen!". Which is the wrong way about it really.

[ca_gere]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/02/woody-allen-and-young-girls-a-history.html

[Stroopy121]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/02/woody-allen-and-young-girls-a-history.html

 

Ehhh... Not a fan of that article. Just seems to be another rehash of "he's always seemed a bit off..."

 

xx

[ca_gere]

Yeah, that's what I thought too

[jester1470]

Ehhh... Not a fan of that article. Just seems to be another rehash of "he's always seemed a bit off..."

 

xx

 

It just seemed a really weird article, the bit about the girl who was writing to him seemed particularly strange, the whole problem seems to be in that he dared to write back and encourage her, there didn't seem to be anything untowards in his actions, he didn't say anything that I could see that was off, she wrote him letters and he found the time to reply, seems a bit of a weird thing to bringing up now as him being dodgy when he never made a move or said anything untowards.

[The Milner]

So they guy from Corrie was found not guilty on 6 counts of sexual abuse. 

 

Worrying, worrying times we live in. 

[Old Gold]

Worrying, worrying times we live in. 

 

Care to elaborate pops?

[The Milner]

Care to elaborate pops?

 

Well thats the second high profile child abuse case to be thrown out in the last couple of months. Does that indicate a trend of false accusations? Its more disturbing when you read that the first allegation against him only came to light after he made a comment saying that people get punished for things they have done in a previous life. 4 more were then only reported AFTER the first made it to the papers, and one was thrown out right away as eventually the woman confessed she had no actual memory of the incident she was reporting.....

 

To me, false accusations of rape and child abuse are extremely dangerous. 

[The Milner]

Statement from a woman on the radio,

 

"it seems right now all you have to do is make the accusation that you have been abused, and you will be believed before they investigate"

 

Again, i find that very worrying. 

[Eupraxia]

So they guy from Corrie was found not guilty on 6 counts of sexual abuse. 

 

Worrying, worrying times we live in. 

 

I'd be more worried if these claims were made and there was no investigation into the allegations at all.

 

Allegations were made against an individual. An investigation was launched and not enough substantial evidence was found to convict the individual, therefore the individual is cleared of the allegations. Sounds pretty fair and logical to me. The only shit part of it all is the media coverage it gained and the fact that, as a society, we lap that shit up and are so eager to pass comment and judgement on it all.

[The Milner]

I'd be more worried if these claims were made and there was no investigation into the allegations at all.

 

Allegations were made against an individual. An investigation was launched and not enough substantial evidence was found to convict the individual, therefore the individual is cleared of the allegations. Sounds pretty fair and logical to me. The only shit part of it all is the media coverage it gained and the fact that, as a society, we lap that shit up and are so eager to pass comment and judgement on it all.

 

Of course. What concerns me tho, is they seem to be pushing these cases to court, when clearly there is no real evidence. Its concerning for two reasons, one, innocent people are having their names dragged through the mud, and two its belittles the cases where there is actual evidence and a crime committed. Eventually the general public will go down the boy who cried wolf mentality when it comes to these kinds of cases, and surely we dont want that at all. 

 

The Jimmy Saville case seems to started open season when it comes to taking famous people to court over allegations of abuse that are next to impossible to prove. 

 

What also concerns me is this could indicate a worrying trend of falsely accusing famous people of crimes for whatever gain. The fact that one women claimed abuse, yet had no actual memory of the event is quite a worrying thing to read. 

[ca_gere]

more 'he's always been creepy' stuff: http://www.bkmag.com/2014/02/06/inevitably-the-post-is-trying-to-discredit-mia-farrow/

 

It's sad to see people drawing parallels between his relationship with Soon Yi and molesting his own child. Very different things.

[The Milner]

Especially when you consider the age gap between Mia Farrow and Frank Sinatra when she claimed he could be her sons father. 

[Skubbs]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10614585/Woody-Allen-sex-abuse-Why-I-want-to-believe-Dylan-Farrow.html

 

Thought this was a good piece, basically telling people (including myself) to not look at the relationship with his ex's adoptive daughter or to let your feelings towards the person affect your judgement.

 

I think the hardest thing is for people to realise that someone who is liked  by people could be like that - for example, my chum had a hard time believing me when I told her that the nerdy, shy guy she let stay in her room over New Year (she was away on holiday) had tried to get into my bedroom. 

 

I was uncomfortable with it just being me and him in the flat, so locked my bedroom door for once - I'm glad I did because I woke up to see the door handle slowly turning.  Now, I hadn't been drinking, as I had been at the fire balls show in Stonehaven with my family.

When I told her all I got told was "no, he wouldn't do that, he's terrified of speaking to women and far too nice".  He obviously denied it.

 

Now, I know it happened, I know that he knew which room was mine and he certainly didn't mix it up with the bathroom.

[The Milner]

So another not guilty verdict today. 

[Guest E.C]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10614585/Woody-Allen-sex-abuse-Why-I-want-to-believe-Dylan-Farrow.html

 

Thought this was a good piece, basically telling people (including myself) to not look at the relationship with his ex's adoptive daughter or to let your feelings towards the person affect your judgement.

 

I think the hardest thing is for people to realise that someone who is liked  by people could be like that - for example, my chum had a hard time believing me when I told her that the nerdy, shy guy she let stay in her room over New Year (she was away on holiday) had tried to get into my bedroom. 

 

I was uncomfortable with it just being me and him in the flat, so locked my bedroom door for once - I'm glad I did because I woke up to see the door handle slowly turning.  Now, I hadn't been drinking, as I had been at the fire balls show in Stonehaven with my family.

When I told her all I got told was "no, he wouldn't do that, he's terrified of speaking to women and far too nice".  He obviously denied it.

 

Now, I know it happened, I know that he knew which room was mine and he certainly didn't mix it up with the bathroom.

 

You were probably wearing a provocative night-gown.