The improve your musicianship thread 2014

[Alkaline]

Who'd you get lessons from? You noticing a big difference? I've always thought about it but never taken the leap! Xx

I'll take a stab in the dark that it's Jayne, heard lots of good things about her singing lessons.

http://www.musicisourforte.co.uk

Edited November 30, 2014 by Alkaline

[scottyboy]

...No real progress. Except I now know that a 7th chord means the 7th note in the scale is flat. I used to assume it meant it was sharp, but a sharp 7th is usually an octave. So I learned one thing.

 

xx

 

When people talk about intervals or chords without specifying major or minor, generally it's major (neither sharp nor flat; minor would be flat). So a "seventh" means a major 7th or 11 frets. You're right in noting that you can't get a sharp 7th, as you have then gone up an octave (there could be obscure theoretical exceptions...). A6, for example, is a major chord with a major 6th.

 

With 7th chords it's a bit different. A7 is a dominant 7th chord: an A chord with a major 3rd and a flat AKA minor 7th. Amaj7 has both a major 3rd and 7th. Am7 has both a minor/flat 3rd and 7th.

Edited November 30, 2014 by scottyboy

[Stroopy121]

Minor Keys.

 

So, take a nice easy example here, the scale of Cmajor is the same scale as Aminor... So if you're playing a progression in the key of C, you could play C - F - G. Now, if you wanted to play in the key of Am rather than C, am I right to think that you'd play Cm - Fm - Gm?

 

My assumption is that the notes that are changed from the scale of A to make it into Am (3rd, 6th, 7th = C, F, G) and those chords are played as Minors in the minor scale... But that's just a total patchwork of guesses and assumptions on my part.

 

Basically, when the fuck do you play minor chords in a key? Or can you make and chord minor whenever you want?

 

xx

[scottyboy]

Minor Keys.

 

So, take a nice easy example here, the scale of Cmajor is the same scale as Aminor... So if you're playing a progression in the key of C, you could play C - F - G. Now, if you wanted to play in the key of Am rather than C, am I right to think that you'd play Cm - Fm - Gm?

 

My assumption is that the notes that are changed from the scale of A to make it into Am (3rd, 6th, 7th = C, F, G) and those chords are played as Minors in the minor scale... But that's just a total patchwork of guesses and assumptions on my part.

 

Basically, when the fuck do you play minor chords in a key? Or can you make and chord minor whenever you want?

 

xx

 

Nope, wrong Remember the keys are the same, as you said: literally the same. You would still have C-F-G in your Am key progression. And, ahem, it's probably going to have an Am in it. Both the keys of C (major) and A minor have the exact same notes and chords (C major and A minor are found in both, just doing different things). The C major progression might well only have C, F, G. The A minor progression is not just going to have C, F, G: it's surely going to have Am; it might well have C and G, but most likely after Am is probably Dm (minor) and Em (minor). D minor and E minor can also be used in C major progressions.

 

The key is again which chord is the start/end point. If writing/listening to any bog-standard rock/pop song in Am the first chord is pretty much going to be Am, and everything is going to come back ("resolve") to the sonic home base of Am (even if you don't literally play Am at the end of the riff, the next bridge/chorus/riff is going to start on Am; when you windmill the last chord to fade out the track, Am). C major, end (and probably start) on C major, respectively.

 

Jazzers don't start on the home chord but again, all-importantly, end on it. The archetypal jazz progression is 2-5-1; for blues, and probably rock/pop it's 1-4-5, coming back to chord 1 to start again ad-nauseum.

 

Again, the root note/chord is what's important, as it affects what role each (otherwise identical) note plays. But for any relative major and minor key (e.g. C major and A minor) the notes and basic major/minor tonalities of the chords are the same and it just depends what you emphasise that makes the key. Things get more complicated (and actually easier to understand as a whole!) if you look into the whole modal system (trying to avoid just repeating the mega-long posts somewhere above in the thread).

[neepheid]

Minor Keys.

 

So, take a nice easy example here, the scale of Cmajor is the same scale as Aminor... So if you're playing a progression in the key of C, you could play C - F - G. Now, if you wanted to play in the key of Am rather than C, am I right to think that you'd play Cm - Fm - Gm?

 

My assumption is that the notes that are changed from the scale of A to make it into Am (3rd, 6th, 7th = C, F, G) and those chords are played as Minors in the minor scale... But that's just a total patchwork of guesses and assumptions on my part.

 

Basically, when the fuck do you play minor chords in a key? Or can you make and chord minor whenever you want?

 

xx

 

Well you can do what you want, there's nothing stopping you throwing a cheeky chord in which does not necessarily belong to the key you're working in.  Music theory is a framework, but it's not a set of rules - at least that's what I keep telling myself

 

Major key chord sequence (i, ii, iii, iv, v, vi, vii) : maj min min maj maj min dim

Natural minor key chord sequence (i, ii, iii, iv, v, vi, vii) : min dim maj min min maj maj

 

C major key - C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bdim

A minor key - Am, Bdim, C, Dm, Em, F, G

 

C - F - G still belongs in the A minor scale, but you'll have moved position in the scale.  In the major scale, C - F - G is i - iv - v.  In A minor, if you're keeping the chords the same, you're playing iii - vi - vii.  In A minor, the i - iv - v progression would be Am - Dm - Em.

 

I find this site very useful for telling me which chords I should be using for a particular key: http://www.guitar-chords.org.uk/chordskey.html

Hope that helps, and I hope I got it right!

[neepheid]

C - F - G still belongs in the A minor scale, but you'll have moved position in the scale.  In the major scale, C - F - G is i - iv - v.  In A minor, if you're keeping the chords the same, you're playing iii - vi - vii.  In A minor, the i - iv - v progression would be Am - Dm - Em.

 

For "scale" here, read "key".  Sorry for swapping terms there.

[Stroopy121]

Well you can do what you want, there's nothing stopping you throwing a cheeky chord in which does not necessarily belong to the key you're working in.  Music theory is a framework, but it's not a set of rules - at least that's what I keep telling myself

 

Major key chord sequence (i, ii, iii, iv, v, vi, vii) : maj min min maj maj min dim

Natural minor key chord sequence (i, ii, iii, iv, v, vi, vii) : min dim maj min min maj maj

 

C major key - C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bdim

A minor key - Am, Bdim, C, Dm, Em, F, G

 

C - F - G still belongs in the A minor scale, but you'll have moved position in the scale.  In the major scale, C - F - G is i - iv - v.  In A minor, if you're keeping the chords the same, you're playing iii - vi - vii.  In A minor, the i - iv - v progression would be Am - Dm - Em.

 

I find this site very useful for telling me which chords I should be using for a particular key: http://www.guitar-chords.org.uk/chordskey.html

Hope that helps, and I hope I got it right!

 

 

Riiiight! Perfect, thanks for that - the bit in bold there is what I was really after - I saw something before annotated as M m m M m M D or something, and had no idea what it meant - turns out that's the guy.

 

Lovely stuff, GBOL ATB!

 

xx

[scottyboy]

I was going to come back with a code shortcut but see Neepheid got it. I would add that chord 6 of the major key is the chord 1 of the equivalent minor key (and chord 3 of the minor key is chord 1 of the equivalent major key) which may make things easier to figure out in different keys.

 

I also think that you can simply play/think of a minor chord in the place of the diminished one (conversely, these codes assume one is playing basic triads, and things are a bit more complicated if one wants to use extended chords).

[Stroopy121]

Yeah, that was my next question - what the fuck is a diminished chord..?

 

xx

[neepheid]

Yeah, that was my next question - what the fuck is a diminished chord..?

 

xx

 

root, minor third, flattened (diminished) fifth.  {0, 3, 6}.  A minor chord for comparison is root, minor third, perfect fifth {0, 3, 7}.  Notes in a Cmin - C, E?, G.  Notes in Cdim - C, E?, G?

[Moon Moon]

my goal is to definitely work on my two handed fretting this year, its kind of getting there but sounds well out of time when i try to do percussion over it but slowly im geting there

[TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH]

I'm going to set up one of my guitars in "New Standard Tuning", after watching a couple of videos about it. It sounds really interesting, and I'm finding myself in a bit of a rut at the moment. Since I don't have much in the way of technique, something like a different tuning will hopefully get the whole creative vibes going. As long as I can pinch and pick scrape, it should all be good.

[Jaaakkkeee]

Tempted to buy Rocksmith for ps4 if it ever goes on sale. Surprisingly really good for learning guitar. I can play, if making noise and power chords is playing. I find myself wanting to play "proper" chords when I've got my acoustic out and I just can't do it.

[AVB]

im gonna play my next gigs sober

[murphybridget837]

On 1/3/2014 at 7:07 PM, Moon Moon said:

On 1/3/2014 at 6:48 PM, Chris said:

Right it's January, a new year and a new you etc. Time for resolutions and self-improvement. I figure this might be a good place to lump together everyone's plans for becoming better musicians and we can all share tips, online resources, tools and point towards books that can help us achieve our goals.

I'll kick things off.

I've dabbled on and off with understanding music theory for years but as a guitarist there's never seemed to be much of a need. Tab is easy, why bother learning something difficult like sight reading? Now over the last couple of years I've been picking up other instruments (keyboard/synth, mandolin, whistle) and am learning more traditional tunes and switching between notation systems (abc for whistle, tab for mando and guitar, struggling to read sheet music for keys) is a total pain in the hoop. Plus a lot of tunebooks for Scots trad are aimed at fiddle players so if I could sight read sheet music I'd have an easier time of getting reliable transcriptions of music I want to learn plus i might be able to switch a tune between instruments with a lot less pain. At the moment if I learn a tune on one instrument it will take me ages to figure it out on another. Having one musical language - sheet music should make that process a bit quicker.

So the goal is to learn to sight read. To begin with I'm going with doing it on the mandolin, it's my new obsession and has less notes to learn than guitar. Plus I'm far too stuck in my ways just now on 6 strings, I'll cross that bridge later.

There's exercises on note identification for the treble staff and on the fretboard available on the excellent MusicTheory.net: http://www.musictheory.net/exercises

I also found a good chart of the notes on the fretboard and how they relate to the notes on the staff (also got one for guitar):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/waynebagley/mandolinfretboard.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/waynebagley/guitarfretboard.png

There's a few apps out there for the various phone OS's which also do note ID exercises. Very useful.

Now to practice I need tunes to play. Nigel Gatherer has a great selection of reliable transcriptions on his site:

http://www.nigelgatherer.com/tunes/std.html

Anyone got any more good tips for sight reading or learning to read music? I guess the main thing from here is to practice it as much as possible and it will just improve the more I do it.

Anyone else looking to improve their playing or theory this year? Need help? Got some good tips?

I'm the same but with the traditional music I pLay by ear it's easy to do it on guitar not sure about the others though as depending on the style I.e. Hornpipe jig reel or slow air there's a kinda rythym to it, but when doing less traditional ones I.e. Fairy tale of New York it was a struggle as all the change I'm time signatures and all that stuff then there we're repeats I know my symbols and that and starting to get there with reading notes but it would be a good resolution to finally read music as it's been 3 years since I first tried

Nice, thank you for sharing this.