Brand Vs. Paxman

[MikeyEB 189]

Paxman - sounds like a brand of Stuffing.

Brand - is clearly a cunt.

 

Perhaps they could form a company called Brand Paxman and just get on with the serious business of stuffing cunts.

[Eupraxia 796]

Perhaps they could form a company called Brand Paxman and just get on with the serious business of stuffing cunts.

 

From what I gather, Russell Brand has been doing this most of his adult life anyway.

[Oedo 808 151]

Brand stumbled into a point towards the end there I think. Perhaps something about the ills of corporatism.

I thought Paxman's opening gambit was weak: "What gives you the authority to talk about politics?"

Bit of a crap opener.

[Oedo 808 151]

He is right, David Cameron, Ed Miliband, Alex Salmond

I'm pretty sure when Brand and Paxman were talking Alex Salmond wasn't in mind.

[Adam Easy Wishes 2624]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/robin-lustig/russell-brand-not-only-dangerous_b_4155341.html

[Guest E.C]

DAVE is such a punisher in any of these threads.

[Soda Jerk 5139]

Only just got around to watching this, after all the chat about it.

 

When people watch it, are they just seeing what they want to see? Brand fanbois are insisting that Brand "totes destroys" Paxman, and pompous right wing nutjobs seem to suggest that paxman is just humoring him and handled him excellently.

 

I don't particularly like either of them, but somehow I'm not seeing either of them just murder each other with clubs.

 

What gives?

[Teabags 2632]

I don't think either destroys either. Brand puts forward his ideas, Paxman just agrees and says "but people might not listen to you."

You could probably get the same "MOG START A REVOLUTION" by going to speakers corner in London or something.

I noticed the revolution hasn't started yet. And they haven't found Kony either. OMG.

[Stroopy121 1536]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/10/robert-webb-re-joins-labour-protest-russell-brand

 

Robert Webb disagrees with Russel Brand in epic "comedians can do politics too" stand-off. And another fucking open letter. Where's the Pet Hates thread when you need it?!

 

xx

[Alkaline 1607]

To be fair though, Robert Webb has a point.

[Stroopy121 1536]

To be fair though, Robert Webb has a point.

 

He totally does - but so does Brand in my opinion. I don't think that abstaining from voting is enough - IF one wanted to fight for what Brand is proposing, then it'll take a fuckload more work than simply opting out and saying "fuck it, I don't like this system!". If you really want to topple our current democratic system and instigate such massive changes then it'll take a lot more than what Brand is doing (fuck all). Stage some protests, pick the brains of the "better informed" that he mentions and start thinking about a real alternative. Give people an option. In the meantime, I'd go with what Webb says - vote for the "lesser of two evils", (be that Green/SNP/Labour/Independent) if that's how you view it, and try to make this system work as best it can, even if it's only for a short while until the revolution!

 

xx

[paime 457]

[The Milner 1276]

I dont care they get paid more, of course they have worked to get to that stage but you completely missed my point. 

[ca_gere 2607]

 

I've seen a general sense of entitlement in some areas of society with many people stating that it's unfair that the rich get rich. That's life. 

 

Most people wouldn't disagree that those who work hard and honestly to earn money deserve their spoils. It's not capitalism that people have a problem with. The 'rich' that I always assume people are referring to are those who use their wealth to ensure they stay wealthy whilst others remain poor. Execs using their money to influence politics, insider trading, manipulating stock prices, etc... general white collar crime. That's what's unfair and without trying to sound like a smelly Occupy Wall Streeter... it has a lot more of an impact on our daily lives than most people realize. Everything from the price of your rent to the cost of a cup of coffee has been influenced by corporate greed that ensures the majority of us stay just about wealthy enough to afford what they want to sell us.

 

Point is, in a lot of cases, this argument of 'the rich getting rich isn't fair' versus 'go and work hard for your money' is often confused about who it's aimed at. The perfect example of this would be occupy wall street. The people who the protesters wanted to 'disrupt' wouldn't ever be on the trading floor or anywhere near wall street so it ended up looking like a bunch of hippies annoying regular hard working people who happen to work in the financial district. Added to this is the fact that the protest consisted of mainly 'just chilling' instead of perceived 'work'. All this meant both sides of the argument only helped in further confirming their beliefs.

[ca_gere 2607]

Still, don't listen to Russel Brand. Voting is good.

[Frosty Jack 540]

[The Milner 1276]

I have to admit i don't understand this point of view. Yes, your managers get paid more than you but they have much more responsibility than you do. They also (im guessing) have much more experience than you do and if it wasn't for them you might not have a company to work for. If your company has made 3 times the profit then good for them but it might be getting spent on company development rather than going straight to the managers.

 

I've seen a general sense of entitlement in some areas of society with many people stating that it's unfair that the rich get rich. That's life. Unless you want to invoke communist rule in this country then you're going to have to live with it im afraid. Either that or start your own company, work every waking hour until you too are rich and can provide for your family and generate hundreds of jobs for other people by which time i suppose you'll find your own wealth unfair and hand everything back to society.

 

My boss's didnt create the company i work for, they didnt do anything than work up the ladder of the oil industry. Climbing the ladder in this industry is less about talent than it is about sucking up and calling everyone "mate". 

I dont feel entitled to anything really, its never about that, what is annoying is that my money goes less than it did when i started here, whilst this place takes in record profits, and then basically says "fuck you" to the staff that helps it make those profits, knowing fine most of us have no option but to accept it and get on with things. We get told a small basic pay rise is the only thing they can do, and then they had out massive bonus's to the people already making huge sums of money, with company phones and company cars, do you really think that is the way the world should be? Keep the rich as rich as possible, keep everyone else on a lower scale of living? 

[scottyboy 170]

Unless you want to invoke communist rule in this country then you're going to have to live with it im afraid. Either that or start your own company, work every waking hour until you too are rich and can provide for your family and generate hundreds of jobs for other people by which time i suppose you'll find your own wealth unfair and hand everything back to society.

 

Not true at all. It's this or Communism? Sounds like something a US Southern senator would trot out... probably in the '50s. Plenty of existing and proposed models of capitalism (or anything right of communism really) more equitable than UK state capitalism (or neo or fake liberalism, whatever one wants to call it).

Edited November 1, 2013 by scottyboy

[paime 457]

My boss's didnt create the company i work for, they didnt do anything than work up the ladder of the oil industry. Climbing the ladder in this industry is less about talent than it is about sucking up and calling everyone "mate". 

I dont feel entitled to anything really, its never about that, what is annoying is that my money goes less than it did when i started here, whilst this place takes in record profits, and then basically says "fuck you" to the staff that helps it make those profits, knowing fine most of us have no option but to accept it and get on with things. We get told a small basic pay rise is the only thing they can do, and then they had out massive bonus's to the people already making huge sums of money, with company phones and company cars, do you really think that is the way the world should be? Keep the rich as rich as possible, keep everyone else on a lower scale of living? 

 

Climbing the ladder in the oil industry isn't about "sucking up" to people, the pressures that exist in managerial positions are pretty immense and if you can't do the job then you don't get the job in my experience. If you manage to make it to the top then you deserve the rewards imho. 

 

If you don't like the way your company treats you then why not leave? If the career you're in doesn't have the potential financial reward then why not re-train? We live in one of the most buoyant employment markets and i imagine you're at the age where changing your career is straight forward. Quit whining and do something about it!

[paime 457]

Plenty of existing and proposed models of capitalism (or anything right of communism really) more equitable than UK state capitalism (or neo or fake liberalism, whatever one wants to call it).

 

I'd like to see these models. Im not saying they don't exist, rather i haven't heard of them/studied them in detail.

[Stroopy121 1536]

I'd like to see these models. Im not saying they don't exist, rather i haven't heard of them/studied them in detail.

 

Me too - I must admit I'm more than a little ignorant when it comes to "alternative political systems" mainly because there's SO MUCH information that I can't find a reasonable starting point - fucking the system for Dummies, if you will.

 

Climbing the ladder in the oil industry isn't about "sucking up" to people, the pressures that exist in managerial positions are pretty immense and if you can't do the job then you don't get the job in my experience. If you manage to make it to the top then you deserve the rewards imho. 

 

If you don't like the way your company treats you then why not leave? If the career you're in doesn't have the potential financial reward then why not re-train? We live in one of the most buoyant employment markets and i imagine you're at the age where changing your career is straight forward. Quit whining and do something about it!

 

I disagree pretty strongly with the bit in bold. I've seen way too much managerial incompetency to believe that all the big-wigs earn their payslip. The only good managers I've worked under have had good technical backgrounds. So many Project Managers I've seen have no fucking idea what's going on, they just enter some dates into Microsoft Project and lose their shit when dates aren't met, even if people who know better tell them from day 1 that the dates are completely unrealistic.

 

BUT - this debate has no real place in this particular thread. I agree with the gist of the rest of your post, though. Aberdeen particularly has a fucking excellent job market and re-training or shifting companies isn't as hard as it is elsewhere, but it's still a fucking ballache!

 

xx

[paime 457]

Me too - I must admit I'm more than a little ignorant when it comes to "alternative political systems" mainly because there's SO MUCH information that I can't find a reasonable starting point - fucking the system for Dummies, if you will.

 

 

I disagree pretty strongly with the bit in bold. I've seen way too much managerial incompetency to believe that all the big-wigs earn their payslip. The only good managers I've worked under have had good technical backgrounds. So many Project Managers I've seen have no fucking idea what's going on, they just enter some dates into Microsoft Project and lose their shit when dates aren't met, even if people who know better tell them from day 1 that the dates are completely unrealistic.

 

BUT - this debate has no real place in this particular thread. I agree with the gist of the rest of your post, though. Aberdeen particularly has a fucking excellent job market and re-training or shifting companies isn't as hard as it is elsewhere, but it's still a fucking ballache!

 

xx

 

Everyone's experience is different i guess and yes im sure there is incompetence in management but you're right, probably better in another thread.

 

Im keen to hear about alternative political systems though. I think Brand is off his nut if he thinks we'll all jump on board with him but what are the feasible alternatives which are more to the right?

[Teabags 2632]

So, it turns out Paxman actually agrees with Brand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FfSGhNuU5k

[scottyboy 170]

Me too - I must admit I'm more than a little ignorant when it comes to "alternative political systems" mainly because there's SO MUCH information that I can't find a reasonable starting point - fucking the system for Dummies, if you will.

 

It's not necessarily about fucking the system though. As I said, there are already significantly different capitalist systems as the status quo in other countries. Pretty much any other north European rich country is less right wing (not how I like to describe it, but for simplicity) and probably doesn't have a winner-takes-all electoral system (if Brand wants an electoral "revolution", he should probably just start there). There's also a different system in Japan, which I wouldn't personally want to live under, but has proved more egalitarian than pretty much anywhere else. And if we're talking about not so much about equality and working less than things like efficiency or clean environment, Singapore and perhaps others.

 

In terms of proposed alternative models of capitalism, things are probably more focussed on sustainability and so on (think what a massive societal and economic shift if would take just to get us away from fossil fuels), but you also have people trying to reclaim the same old classical liberal ideas for small business (Adam Smith went on a lot about small artisans and so on).

 

I think looking at the most recent UN development index (and for years prior), and the UK's position vs the other countries I mentioned, is pretty telling.

Edited November 6, 2013 by scottyboy