Jump to content
aberdeen-music
Flights

A.C.A.B.? (inspired by Black Lake Records)

Recommended Posts

All my happenings with police haven't been anything great. And most of the time you do get a good cop/bad cop. And I wouldn't put that down to any T.V. "let's work this perp till he cracks serg!" sort of shit. It's just that I'd happily say at least half of all police are arseholes. Even when I was a witness to something, they came to my old flat on halloween and we were all dressed up and had loads of beer and we had sprayed glowsticks over the walls and turned the lights off. One policeman laughed, the other looked like he was gonna arrest us for destruction of property.

 

Once we went out to look for a missing girl. My dad asked on the way back if I could sit in the front seat to make a very boring night more fun. One cop said yes and the guy whos seat I'd be taking looked like he had been asked if I could shag his ma. Then when the policeman put his cap on me the other one cleared his throat very loudly and the driver took the hat off me again.

 

When I got lifted, the policeman was trying to scare me. Telling me that I probably wouldn't get a court hearing the next day because of the lateness of the arrest and I'd have to stay there 2 nights, he said I should be billed for the money it cost to arrest me, and included his wages in that. Which I didn't get, because if people were always perfectly good he'd be out of a job. And while he's being mister scary "yo gonna do 25 ta life son" for breach of the peace, the policewoman was basically flirting. Showing me her nails and asking me if I liked them, and was trying to make jokes with me. It just didn't make sense. Also, the whole "you'll be here 2 nights" thing seemed strange to me. If I believed it, then got out after one night, to someone likely to commit crime again, wouldn't they be thinking "haha, got away with this one was meant to be in 2 nights, belter"?

 

I've also heard numerous stories from people I believe about police being knobs and letting the power go to their heads.

 

Funny thing though, when I got lifted, they phoned my dad, who thought it was someone winding him and up he went "Fuck off ye gayboy, who's this!?"

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't think the Police can issue ASBO's. Aren't they a court order?

They can hit you with on the spot fines though - Aberdeen council have been trying to ban begging for a couple of years now, maybe there's some kind of bylaw in place?

It maybe wasn't an ASBO, but it was some kind of Anti-Social Behaviour fine. It seems insane to me, asking people who have no way of sourcing funds other than begging to pay for the privilege of being at the lowest rung. I know a number of beggars do have a place to stay at night (which brings a lot of scorn from people who are rather they slept cold on the streets, like the Evening Express) but do we, as a society, really need to have our officers picking on them? Seems like total bullshit to me. Brings me back to Ewan's question of "don't you have something better to do?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't think the Police can issue ASBO's. Aren't they a court order?

They can hit you with on the spot fines though - Aberdeen council have been trying to ban begging for a couple of years now, maybe there's some kind of bylaw in place?

 

Correct, but who wouldn't believe Darren the beggar and his version of events?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beggars are lying scum to you then?

 

Of course not, but neither are all of the Police. You're the one generalising with the all Police are scum attitude. You might not like the concept of the Police but they are necessary as the actual "scum" would make living day to day a lot worse for us otherwise.

Edited by Alkaline
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It maybe wasn't an ASBO, but it was some kind of Anti-Social Behaviour fine. It seems insane to me, asking people who have no way of sourcing funds other than begging to pay for the privilege of being at the lowest rung. I know a number of beggars do have a place to stay at night (which brings a lot of scorn from people who are rather they slept cold on the streets, like the Evening Express) but do we, as a society, really need to have our officers picking on them? Seems like total bullshit to me. Brings me back to Ewan's question of "don't you have something better to do?"

I think it depends on whether you want a police force who enforce the laws of the country (and bylaws of councils) or a police force who decide what the law is?

The problem here is one I totally agree with, we should be helping people on the lowest rungs of society - but the police do what they're told by the law. And we get to decide the law via our political system. So it's better to get active and do something rather than print a t-shirt.

Edited by colb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course not, but neither are all of the Police. You're the one generalising with the all Police are scum attitude. You might not like the concept of the Police but they are necessary as the actual "scum" would make living day to day a lot worse for us otherwise.

When did I say that? I was saying there are reasons not to trust law enforcement. Never said "all Police are scum". I just found the "who wouldn't believe Darren? LOL he's poor!" comment totally inappropriate. I found the police's decision to fine someone who blatantly couldn't pay it just so they could chuck him in jail and get him off the streets (which is blatantly the agenda) typical of the heavy-handedness that many police divisions are capable of.

RE: Colb, surely raising awareness via campaigns, clothing or whatever is activism?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When did I say that? I was saying there are reasons not to trust law enforcement. Never said "all Police are scum". I just found the "who wouldn't believe Darren? LOL he's poor!" comment totally inappropriate. I found the police's decision to fine someone who blatantly couldn't pay it just so they could chuck him in jail and get him off the streets (which is blatantly the agenda) typical of the heavy-handedness that many police divisions are capable of.

RE: Colb, surely raising awareness via campaigns, clothing or whatever is activism?

 

You didn't say it directly, but you and several others have implied it. Depends what you make of the sentence, i don't know his last name so i was just calling him Darren the Beggar to identify him, but I'm not sure why I should believe him over anyone else as I don't know him but I do know that the whole point of the Police force is to protect people and most of the Police are in the job for that reason. Who's to say he might not be better off in jail with a roof over his head and regular meals and healthcare?

 

You and those of a similar viewpoint can be very narrowminded (ironic considering what you're trying to achieve) and seem to overreact and get defensive about pretty much everything. I'm all for people being passionate about things they believe in but not at the expense of common sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You didn't say it directly, but you and several others have implied it. Depends what you make of the sentence, i don't know his last name so i was just calling him Darren the Beggar to identify him, but I'm not sure why I should believe him over anyone else as I don't know him but I do know that the whole point of the Police force is to protect people and most of the Police are in the job for that reason. Who's to say he might not be better off in jail with a roof over his head and regular meals and healthcare?

 

You and those of a similar viewpoint can be very narrowminded (ironic considering what you're trying to achieve) and seem to overreact and get defensive about pretty much everything. I'm all for people being passionate about things they believe in but not at the expense of common sense.

Okay but was I actually being narrow-minded and reactionary or was I giving an example of something that makes me, the individual, feel uneasy with aspects of policing, in a debate about policing? No-one's saying that the idea of the police outright is pointless, there's just a lot of anger about the methods of policing carried out here and internationally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When did I say that? I was saying there are reasons not to trust law enforcement. Never said "all Police are scum". I just found the "who wouldn't believe Darren? LOL he's poor!" comment totally inappropriate. I found the police's decision to fine someone who blatantly couldn't pay it just so they could chuck him in jail and get him off the streets (which is blatantly the agenda) typical of the heavy-handedness that many police divisions are capable of.

RE: Colb, surely raising awareness via campaigns, clothing or whatever is activism?

Of course - but blaming the wrong people isn't activism is it? It's exactly the same as the Daily Mirror saying that everything bad is because of Immigrants and Paedophiles.

Knowing what's really going on and dealing with it is activism. Fuck the Police t-shirts for people that think that kind of thing is cool. They're not any kind of protest, they're exactly the same as asking a cop a snide question.

You didn't know that the Police couldn't issue ASBO's until I told you, and if I hadn't got active you'd have stayed ignorant of who's actually persecuting Darren. Which is everyone in Aberdeen that either voted for our current councillors, or didn't bother to vote and elected to stay with the status quo.

Anyway, the t-shirts are quite smart. But lets not pretend there's any real reason for printing them than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay but was I actually being narrow-minded and reactionary or was I giving an example of something that makes me, the individual, feel uneasy with aspects of policing, in a debate about policing? No-one's saying that the idea of the police outright is pointless, there's just a lot of anger about the methods of policing carried out here and internationally.

 

It was an example of hearsay (I'm assuming you didn't actually witness this?). But are they methods of policing? In my opinion they're generally limited to the minority of serving Police Officers not the majority, and those in the minority in this case should (and quite regularly do) get reprimanded appropriately. Of course there will be instances where this isn't the case but that doesn't mean that the whole institution is a sham.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You didn't know that the Police couldn't issue ASBO's until I told you, and if I hadn't got active you'd have stayed ignorant of who's actually persecuting Darren. Which is everyone in Aberdeen that either voted for our current councillors, or didn't bother to vote and elected to stay with the status quo.

 

Very good, ya got me. I saw his slip that said "Anti-Social Behaviour" and was definitely a fine and jumped to ASBOs. Good one. And it's not as if any anger is directed exclusively to the police, I'm sure there's a large number of people, myself included, who have been critical of the council's plans to "eradicate homelessness" since they were outlined.

Alkaline: yes, I saw his slip from the police, and he had other people around him (people with jobs etc, so don't worry!) who vouched for his story having seen what happened. Again: not saying the whole institution is a "sham", so stop with that line of reply. I'm just saying it's a reason to feel uncomfortable with what police do, and with the people who are in charge of them.

Seems you're not allowed an opinion here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing is, there's the "good cops" who bend the rules. Like letting people off for speeding if say, someone's being rushed to hospital and such. Then there's the "bad cop" where he's a stickler to the rules and usually teams up with a good cop to make him worse. Then there's the "bent cop" who'll bend the rules again, but this time for his own agenda, not for any good for the community.

 

Also, OWS protests, June riots. Lots of very iffy policing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very good, ya got me. I saw his slip that said "Anti-Social Behaviour" and was definitely a fine and jumped to ASBOs. Good one. And it's not as if any anger is directed exclusively to the police, I'm sure there's a large number of people, myself included, who have been critical of the council's plans to "eradicate homelessness" since they were outlined.

Alkaline: yes, I saw his slip from the police, and he had other people around him (people with jobs etc, so don't worry!) who vouched for his story having seen what happened. Again: not saying the whole institution is a "sham", so stop with that line of reply. I'm just saying it's a reason to feel uncomfortable with what police do, and with the people who are in charge of them.

Seems you're not allowed an opinion here.

Not trying to get you - but isn't it better to know what people in authority can & can't do? Activism.

Also, your first comment was kind of telling me to keep my opinion to myself and let the dude sell his t-shirts. Bit harsh to be complaining when people argue back - weird how you lefty tramp loving cop haters turn into bigger fascists than the filth when you get questioned.........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alkaline: yes, I saw his slip from the police, and he had other people around him (people with jobs etc, so don't worry!) who vouched for his story having seen what happened. Again: not saying the whole institution is a "sham", so stop with that line of reply. I'm just saying it's a reason to feel uncomfortable with what police do, and with the people who are in charge of them.

Seems you're not allowed an opinion here.

 

Where did you say that before? What have people with jobs got to do with it? They might be unreliable witnesses. Do I know any of them? Do you know if I know any of them? Why should I trust them? Why should I trust your version of events? I don't feel obliged to trust anyone on hearsay. If i'd been there and seen it myself or seen a little more evidence I might be a little more inclined to believe the whole thing (not that I don't believe you, I'm just questioning why you automatically think I should believe you, Darren, these witnesses etc over the Police).

 

That's my problem in bold. Police, not some Police, but Police. You're implying all of them when you say that.

 

Of course you're allowed an opinion. I'm also allowed to question it as much as I like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not trying to get you - but isn't it better to know what people in authority can & can't do? Activism.

Also, your first comment was kind of telling me to keep my opinion to myself and let the dude sell his t-shirts. Bit harsh to be complaining when people argue back - weird how you lefty tramp loving cop haters turn into bigger fascists than the filth when you get questioned.........

Haha, but that's what I do! Welcome to the left.

I was only saying that Ewan was entitled to sell what he wants to, and power to him for it: it's what he and many believe in. I was trying to add to the discussion by arguing that yes, there is a case to not like police.

And please cut the patronising bullshit from the start of that comment. I know fine well how these procedures go, and I admitted mine was a haphazard reply that I rectified shortly after.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

theres alot to be said about the person behind the uniform, they are just normal guys underneath, bet all of them have banter at work, probably what happend to E.C and then ended up getting the brunt of it.

 

What about city wardens/community wardens are they included under the umbrella of the POLIS 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where did you say that before? What have people with jobs got to do with it? They might be unreliable witnesses. Do I know any of them? Do you know if I know any of them? Why should I trust them? Why should I trust your version of events? I don't feel obliged to trust anyone on hearsay. If i'd been there and seen it myself or seen a little more evidence I might be a little more inclined to believe the whole thing (not that I don't believe you, I'm just questioning why you automatically think I should believe you, Darren, these witnesses etc over the Police).

 

That's my problem in bold. Police, not some Police, but Police. You're implying all of them when you say that.

 

Of course you're allowed an opinion. I'm also allowed to question it as much as I like.

I read his anti-social behaviour fine slip that said "begging next to ATMs on Belmont Street". It said that, I saw it myself. It's not a subjective thing, it's a thing that happened that made me feel uneasy. 

Also seeing a number of my friends being battered with no follow-up from SOME POLICE, an experience I'm willing to bet many of other people on here have been through, combined with national and local incidents of SOME POLICE injustice surely mean that there's a reasonable cause for anti-SOME POLICE sentiment and it seems pointless to argue the odds with someone who's printed the shirts anyway.

Alright?

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha, but that's what I do! Welcome to the left.

I was only saying that Ewan was entitled to sell what he wants to, and power to him for it: it's what he and many believe in. I was trying to add to the discussion by arguing that yes, there is a case to not like police.

And please cut the patronising bullshit from the start of that comment. I know fine well how these procedures go, and I admitted mine was a haphazard reply that I rectified shortly after.

I'm all for people wearing whatever t-shirts they want. But I absolutely have the right to challenge the reasoning behind printing them - cos it was rubbish.

A lame story about a bike that clearly involves more than originally stated and some examples of individual policemen doing terrible things - and the four incidents that you mentioned, which are all very good reasons for more civilian oversight - do not add up to a basis for Fuck the Police.

Not getting your things taken by bigger, stronger people than you because there's no law enforcement is a much better reason to like the police than any reason you can think up to not like them.

Sorry for the patronizing though, unintended. But it's because I care SO much.

Edited by colb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read his anti-social behaviour fine slip that said "begging next to ATMs on Belmont Street". It said that, I saw it myself. It's not a subjective thing, it's a thing that happened that made me feel uneasy. 

Also seeing a number of my friends being battered with no follow-up from SOME POLICE, an experience I'm willing to bet many of other people on here have been through, combined with national and local incidents of SOME POLICE injustice surely mean that there's a reasonable cause for anti-SOME POLICE sentiment and it seems pointless to argue the odds with someone who's printed the shirts anyway.

Alright?

 

 

Great, I'm glad you saw it. Why should I automatically trust you again?

 

I was assaulted while I worked in the Tunnels. The Police didn't catch the guy on the day but using CCTV and my statement, caught him later, charged him and he admitted guilt without any need for me to step anywhere near a courtroom. I thought that was pretty efficient. I have also been on the receiving end of the good/cop bad cop routine.

 

My Grandfather served in the Birmingham Police after the Second World War and served during the pub bombings in the 70s (He also spent 4 years in a POW camp in Poland during the Second World War- never a bad word to be said about the Germans despite this). He was a pretty stand-up guy. I guess it just annoys me a little to have him lumped in with the very few serving Police Officers that are on power trips/are not generally nice people (you get those sorts in every job though don't you?).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...