I don't know why I'm bothering, but...

[Lemonade]

I just don't accept this "let the site die" attitude. No-one is under any illusions that the site is as relevant as it used to be. For years it was the first point of contact for local music, bands, venues, etc. but these days are gone and with social media and the likes it's just simply not as relevant as it was. But I don't think it's ready to be put out to pasture just yet. I've gained so much from the site over the years, I've started and joined several bands using the forums, and used the same forums to promote them, I've bought, sold and traded everything from guitars, amps, records, CDs, DVDs to bedroom furniture and golf clubs, and most importantly as a result of posting on here I've met (actual met, not just internet met) so many great people that I now consider friends, people who I may well have never crossed paths with if it wasn't for the crusty old relic that is Aberdeen Music. I've been posting here for 10 years and fully intend to be posting for 10 more, even if by then it's just me and Chris reminiscing about the good old days. Yes it's not what it was, but that doesn't mean it doesn't still provide me interesting and often challenging interaction, a link to a home that I miss, and a healthy dose of lols on a daily basis.

 

The moderation I do off my own back, on my own time, every day, for no reward or recompense. I do it because A) I've gotten so much from this site in the past and I want to give something back, and B) I genuinely enjoy logging on every day and interacting. You may not always like the way I do it, but you're stuck with me I'm afraid. And I guarantee you, if myself and the rest of the staff weren't here to keep things ticking over the site would be in a hell of a lot worse shape than it is now. You'd all be drowned in handbag spam and dodgy porn for a start.

 

/nickycasino"youkilledDrakes"speech

[ca_gere]

handbag spam sounds like something you'd see in dodgy porn.

 

Well said though.

[Frosty Jack]

Right here goes, I reckon 2.30am while well alight on Rioja is as good a time as any...

I've just spent a good hour looking back over old posts, announcements, discussions between the staff, etc. with particular regard to how this site is run. And, to be honest, it has ever been thus. I read stuff from almost 10 years ago that could almost be a direct copy of this thread. Which doesn't mean it's not valid, because it is, but the fact is that we as mods are always, always going to piss people off. We can't get away from that - it's always going to be subjective. The fact you have posted something on this site by definition means you want it to be seen, and when someone else then decides that it isn't going to be, you're not going to like that.

And I don't think we always get it right - it would be a miracle if we did. But I think we all agree that moderation is necessary. Otherwise we wouldn't get reports, complaints, or messages from users asking us to delete stuff, sometimes something they themselves have posted. And we wouldn't get threads like this one.

From looking back over the last 10 years or more, one thing struck me - the staff have always been happy to explain themselves. We don't have a problem with that. Feel free to disagree, and ask us to justify our decisions. I think we should have to. In fact I like these threads where people complain about the staff. There's obviously quite a lot of discussion that goes on in PM's, unseen to anyone else, but I reckon every once in a while it's good to have a public airing of complaints like this. It gives everyone a slightly better idea of what we do and why. And also gives us as mods a slightly better idea of what users think of what we do and why.

If I'm being honest, I don't think I would have closed the original 'OTT Moderation' thread. Yes, there was a lot of shite in it eg between E.C and Milner, but it could have been removed and the discussion brought back on track. But that's just me. Lucky works his own way, I work mine, and so do Chris, Dave and Neil. And that's a good thing. In fact it's necessary. The more varied decisions, styles and opinions the better. I know Dave, Lucky, Chris and Neil don't always agree with me, nor I them. That's why it works. The mods get moderated too. This has been a great site for far longer than most sites have even been sites. And it still is great. But it lives and dies by its users and what they post. The secret is not what comes out of this site, but what goes into it. We're all moderators.

[Jaaakkkeee]

 We're all moderators.

Can I get Staff under my name then?

 

 

Srsly tho. I don't think (hope) that anyone's wanting zero moderation. That would of course, cause the site to go to shit. But maybe a little more "i'll keep an eye out, watch it develop" sort of attitude. As I said before, some of the most talked about threads are because they went off topic, and some of the funniest is when there's an arguement/flame war. Remember a couple of years ago some racist guy came on and we all gave him shit? Or the dude who told Lockah to go watch London cover bands. Or Droid vs Lockah. Or Slutbags vs her ex. Or, apparently now, YA vs the world.

 

This thread almost went the way of the last OTT Moderation one when YA suddenly started mouthing off to Hateevent up there. But you guys "let it slide". I think if that had happened in the last one, or perhaps a comment from lucky saying "get a grip or take it to the pms if you have to" would have been more appropriate. Because as much as I hope he didn't mean to, it definitely looked like he was getting the last word in then closing the thread. That's like a 14 year old girl having an argument with her lad then saying some bullshit shpeel and hanging up the phone. And it infuriates everyone. And as you said, it's what you put in that makes the site good. But if people feel they can't say what they feel, or can laugh at stupid arguments anymore then the amount of input will go down.

 

Even I've noticed a difference in how much threads are posted in since I stopped documenting my shits. People came to give me hell for the drivel I was posting, but at least people were coming and posting. Now, you post in a thread, you have to wait about a day for a reply.

[TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH]

Surely the only difference in this site compared to say, 10 years ago, is that it's getting less traffic and contributions from it's core users. I don't think that you say that either of these things can be attributed to the moderators. Like Chris said, social media has played a big part in reducing interactions onto this site. Also, the users who have been registered here for a long time are perhaps not as involved with local music or it's circle of friends that they were 10 years ago. Like Frosty said, people have always moaned on here that this site/the scene is not what it was like in the glory days.

 

Bring back the wasteland and let's book King Prawn for some packed out shows!

[Stroopy121]

FWIW I don't think the site is over-moderated. The flame wars and out-of-control threads are fun BECAUSE they're against the rules and always on the verge of being closed. That's the whole appeal. Nobody would read the shutterspeed thread if it was as long as the Pet Hates one.

 

Other forums I post in have mods who edit posts and warn users for swearing too much. SWEARING TOO FUCKING MUCH. I've called mods on this forum cunts a few times (usually in jest) and not even had a slap on the wrist. Plus I've bought and sold a lot of gear and find it a really good platform for sharing my music with people who I'd have no connection with otherwise.

 

http://youtu.be/BOVaPb2nVys

 

xx

 

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention the fact that I met both of the other chaps I'm currently in a band with via this site! It may not be as necessary as it once was since the facebook revolution but it's still hardly the fucking yellow pages!

Edited August 2, 2013 by Stroopy121

[The Milner]

Lol over moderation, you guys should try posting on some of the forums i do, you would be banned in the first 10 posts if you posted anything like 99% of you do on here. The moderation on here is next to none for the best part.

The fact is, now a days, this kinda forum doesnt serve the purpose it used to, thanks to the huge influx of social media sites. Now a days its all done through Facebook, gig announcements, band news, pretty much everything, there is much less need to come here to post it all. This site hasnt died because of the mods, if anything, the fact they let so much slip is probably one of the reasons so many of us still come here, you can get away with slagging folk, swearing and various other forum frowned upon things. This site used to be a lot more busy, when this was one of the few options you had online to discuss music in Aberdeen, infact, outwith a few local band forums it was the only option, again now a days, its not as vital so you have less people coming here and signing up, again why bother when you can get all the info you need from FB. 

 

I completely disagree that letting threads descend into shutterspeed territory is the way to go, in todays age its far far too dangerous to let things get to that stage, and lets be fair, it was nothing more than a bunch of adults bullying a group of naive kids, it was a bit amusing, but when you read back its pretty grim to see what was allowed, and to see how people are when they are left to get on with it. There was one night a few years back when there were no mods on the site for a weekend, it wasnt fun, and Neil had to shut the site down for a few days to sort the mess we had all made. Surely no one wants that kinda thing to happen again? Gordon Duthie is the same, you have a guy who thinks  he is doing something decent, and a bunch of "adults" on here just taking the piss out the boy constantly, its pretty sad that those are the kinda threads people are wanting. If your only interested in trolling kids, its probably best you do get your account deleted. 

 

This comes up every few years, probably when someone is annoyed their post has been deleted, im pretty damn sure i started one years ago getting my knickers in a twist over nothing just like why this has all kicked off again. Those who are harping on about  "i dunno why im still here", your all free to make a decision, make it, dont give people who give up their free time to keep this place running a hard time over it, if it wasnt for them, we wouldnt have the forum full stop. 

 

I used this site quite recently to get a band going, ive bought and sold equipment, made new friends and heard a lot of new local music, so it does still serve a purpose, it just doesnt have the same level of traffic it did when we were all younger. 

Edited August 2, 2013 by The Milner

[Paranoid Android]

What other forums are you guys posting on, mumsnet? This site definitely has the most moderator interference of any forum I've used.

 

I'll admit that isn't many and there's only one other I visit these days so maybe it is just a wild and lawless place which makes this look like a police state in comparison. 

Edited August 2, 2013 by Paranoid Android

[Paranoid Android]

Also fwiw I don't think any issue with the moderation is a major cause of the supposed decline in the forums popularity

[Stroopy121]

What other forums are you guys posting on, mumsnet? This site definitely has the most moderator interference of any forum I've used, even all the child porn forums I frequent.

 

I'll admit that isn't many and there's only one other I visit these days so maybe it is just a wild and lawless place which makes this look like a police state in comparison. 

 

Basschat don't let you swear much. They also REALLY lose their shit when you quote users and change the text because people kept complaining. Larger number of users = higher chance of someone getting sand in their vagina.

 

xx

[The Milner]

I go on various official forums for games, most notably the Sports Interactive forum, if you swear once you get a warning, twice you get infracted, third time your taking a month break from the forum. That's just one rule, ANY abusive message in any form is deleted and you will get a PM warning you, second offence your gone. Post anything even remotely related to piracy, your gone. Revive a thread more than 6 months old without a very good reason and its shut down right away.  They are extremely strict on there. Steam forums are the same, if you slag off Steam or Valve you get instantly shut down. EA forums are even worse, if you mention a game is not great you get shut down pretty damn quickly, and your account is deleted. 

 

Most officially ran forums are the same, you dont get away with anything like you do on here. Thats why i still like this site, you get a lot of freedom to post what you like, coming here from one of them is great, its a lot more relaxed. 

Edited August 2, 2013 by The Milner

[Stroopy121]

Wonder what would happen on a Steam forum if a load of users changed their avatars to photos of one of the mods taken from their facebook page?!

 

xx

[The Milner]

Within ten minutes they would have stopped anyone changing their av, no question. They would have probably deleted most of the accounts that did it as well. They really dont fuck about on official forums, now a days they cannot take the risk that someone will take legal action.

 

The SI forums have gone as far as not even letting you copy and pasting the fixtures from the current season because it COULD infringe copy write. 

 

Just as an example, i got a two week ban for calling someone incompetent at playing Football Manager on the SI forums. Would anyone really like to see proper moderation on this site if thats what it could lead too? 

Edited August 2, 2013 by The Milner

[Paranoid Android]

They also REALLY lose their shit when you quote users and change the text because people kept complaining.

 

 

Fun hating bastards.

[Chris]

The SI forums have gone as far as not even letting you copy and pasting the fixtures from the current season because it COULD infringe copy write. 

 

That's not really a Sports Interactive issue, loads of unofficial fans forums were told they couldn't publish fixture lists a couple of years ago because they were subject to copyright and the PL and SPL were enforcing those rights.  Ridiculous.  In fact I think it was discussed on here at the time, maybe I should go bump that thread...

[Flights]

The SI Reich sound like a fearsome bunch!

 

In all honesty I don't see what all the fuss is. If you want to post a load of shite and troll children go do it on twitter or whatever. 

I realise that most of the posts on this forum aren't really music related but there is a good community here and people generally lend a hand if you need help with something.

 

 

the rest is folk talking about guitars, most of whom have never and will never play a gig outside of aberdeen

 

I don't really understand why this is an issue. If people want to come and discuss musical instruments on a music forum surely that's a good thing no?

[The Milner]

That's not really a Sports Interactive issue, loads of unofficial fans forums were told they couldn't publish fixture lists a couple of years ago because they were subject to copyright and the PL and SPL were enforcing those rights.  Ridiculous.  In fact I think it was discussed on here at the time, maybe I should go bump that thread...

 

Oh yeah im aware, my point more was, this site hasnt really enforced it, on there if you post them up, they will be deleted in 1 minute, do it again and they will ban you for it. Its just an example of how this site doesnt really go OTT with modding, you guys let things fly a lot more than other places do. 

[Paranoid Android]

But that's a different issue to what I have a problem with here. It's moderators closing threads just because they've gone off topic a bit that is my only real complaint.

[Guest E.C]

sorry, this thread appears to have gone off topic and is now about how 'tough guy' the SI forums are.

 

can you please delete all the posts and/or close the thread? thanks.

 

 

#weareallfrostyjack

[The Milner]

But that's a different issue to what I have a problem with here. It's moderators closing threads just because they've gone off topic a bit that is my only real complaint.

Again, go onto official forums, if you even remotely stray off topic they will delete your post, do it again and they will warn you, if more than a few people stray off, they shut the thread down, and the subsequent 10 threads about the OTT moderation, coupled with a few bans. 

[Guest E.C]

Again, go onto official forums, if you even remotely stray off topic they will delete your post, do it again and they will warn you, if more than a few people stray off, they shut the thread down, and the subsequent 10 threads about the OTT moderation, coupled with a few bans. 

 

that sounds absolutely awful. why does anyone use that site?

[The Milner]

Its a great forum, and a fantastic community, if you follow the rules. 

[SeaOfEnergy]

The SI Reich sound like a fearsome bunch!

 

In all honesty I don't see what all the fuss is. If you want to post a load of shite and troll children go do it on twitter or whatever. 

I realise that most of the posts on this forum aren't really music related but there is a good community here and people generally lend a hand if you need help with something.

 

Tam o' Shantie, on 01 Aug 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

 

the rest is folk talking about guitars, most of whom have never and will never play a gig outside of aberdeen

 

 

 

I don't really understand why this is an issue. If people want to come and discuss musical instruments on a music forum surely that's a good thing no?

Except they obviously arent as good or worth as much respect as the 'usuals' on this place, which tbh is probably why its went downhill! I havent ever been a frequent user because its seems to just be the same people either kissing each others asses or putting down lesser known users. This is a negative thing especially in terms of people offering their thoughts or feeling like they can contribute to discussion -  most shit gets jumped on straight away in 'pure bitter aberdonian gona reign on your fuckin parade' stylee!

 

not sure why im even bothering to contribute to this!!  :/

[Stroopy121]

Except they obviously arent as good or worth as much respect as the 'usuals' on this place, which tbh is probably why its went downhill! I havent ever been a frequent user because its seems to just be the same people either kissing each others asses or putting down lesser known users. This is a negative thing especially in terms of people offering their thoughts or feeling like they can contribute to discussion -  most shit gets jumped on straight away in 'pure bitter aberdonian gona reign on your fuckin parade' stylee!

 

not sure why im even bothering to contribute to this!!  :/

 

I couldn't disagree with you more. Shit music gets made fun of. Good music gets praised by those who appreciate it. Look at Fox as a prime example. He came on, just a kid with a guitar, people liked it and people said they liked it. I've torn strips off of people who I consider dear friends because I think they could do better, and I've praised total strangers because I enjoy what they do.

 

This "pure bitter aberdonian gona reign on your fuckin parade" mentality just makes you sound like the bitter one. Upset because nobody patted you on the back. Not saying that's definitely the case, but it's how you (and the countless others who have said the same thing) come across.

 

xx

Edited August 2, 2013 by Stroopy121

[Paranoid Android]

Except they obviously arent as good or worth as much respect as the 'usuals' on this place, which tbh is probably why its went downhill! I havent ever been a frequent user because its seems to just be the same people either kissing each others asses or putting down lesser known users. This is a negative thing especially in terms of people offering their thoughts or feeling like they can contribute to discussion -  most shit gets jumped on straight away in 'pure bitter aberdonian gona reign on your fuckin parade' stylee!

 

not sure why im even bothering to contribute to this!!  :/

 

 

Look at this guy speaking shite and doesn't even have 500 posts.

 

Get him lads!