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Stroopy121

Equal Marriage

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Yeah, sure. Ignore the bits about where I said homosexuality was not something to be feared and a natural trait, and focus on the bit which might cause a bit of controversy. I wasn't referring to our species, to be clear. In other parts of the animal kingdom it can be viewed as an affliction.

Just so I'm clear, do you consider homosexuality to be an affliction? Or just in other animals? Regardless, how is it an affliction exactly?

I'd also be interested to understand your interpretation of the story about the resurrection of Jesus. Presumably you don't actually believe he rose from the dead?

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I'd also be interested to understand your interpretation of the story about the resurrection of Jesus. Presumably you don't actually believe he rose from the dead?

No chance that "story" is meant as allegory?

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No chance that "story" is meant as allegory?

Absolutely. But I'm just interested to know what Dave's take on it is.

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No chance that "story" is meant as allegory?

I would have thought that this is a fairly central issue, i.e. believing in the resurrection is what makes it a religion. If every single aspect of the Bible is allegory, and you don't have to actually believe anything, then it's not a religion. If you're calling yourself a Christian then surely by definition you must believe at least some of the Bible is absolute fact.

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I would have thought that this is a fairly central issue, i.e. believing in the resurrection is what makes it a religion. If every single aspect of the Bible is allegory, and you don't have to actually believe anything, then it's not a religion. If you're calling yourself a Christian then surely by definition you must believe at least some of the Bible is absolute fact.

You could believe in God (or a godlike entity) whos teachings were delivered by allegory.

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You could believe in God (or a godlike entity) whos teachings were delivered by allegory.

You could. But if you're a Christian then the concept that Jesus died for your sins and was subsequently resurrected is, as Frosty is hinting at, a central tenant of that particular belief system. So while it's rather easy to dismiss stories like those of Adam & Eve or Noah's Ark as allegory and open to interpretation, there are some that are fundamental and have to be believed as fact as a follower of that particular religion.

I'd like to direct my attention back to my question to Dave about homosexually as an affliction though, as I think the use of that word is rather revealing.

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I wouldn't call it an affliction in other species though. My aunties dog loved a lick of my dog's cock and they were both happy with it.

Can we just put it down to a poor choice of words? I don't consider homosexuality an affliction in humans, and while there may be drawbacks for other species which experience it I don't think it's a particularly important point to explore.

Ah, now there's a meaty issue. I'll try to keep any professions of faith to a minimum. As I see it, Christ's substance was that of fully God and fully man, what the ancient scholars defined as ὁμοούσιος or homooúsios. Upon being crucified, He as an entity did indeed die, and His body was interred as described in the Gospels. However, while it is in man's nature to be mortal and to change, God is immortal and immutable, and He continued to exist and interact with the world for a period, identifying himself as Jesus, before resuming His previous role. Jesus the man died, Christ always was and always will be. They were one and the same, with two natures, existing in hypostatic union.

So, for lack of a better word, the resurrected Jesus was more ghost than man? That, I could get on board with.

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You could. But if you're a Christian then the concept that Jesus died for your sins and was subsequently resurrected is, as Frosty is hinting at, a central tenant of that particular belief system. So while it's rather easy to dismiss stories like those of Adam & Eve or Noah's Ark as allegory and open to interpretation, there are some that are fundamental and have to be believed as fact as a follower of that particular religion.

I'd like to direct my attention back to my question to Dave about homosexually as an affliction though, as I think the use of that word is rather revealing.

But it can still be an allegorical story in a "phoenix raised from the ashes" in the face of adversity sort of way, no? It's all about interpretation regardless, we're talking about something that was written to placate people who had previously believed all sorts of things about their previous gods so it's not a hard stretch to believe that even the more fanciful things that you're supposed to believe were put in to placate the masses. Jesus' resurrection was hardly the first occurance of resurrection in religion/mythology. There would still be a strong basis in that in Christianity because who can categorically say it did or didn't happen (science suggests it probably didn't, but science is only right some of the time and some things still defy explanation by scientific process).

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Ah, now there's a meaty issue. I'll try to keep any professions of faith to a minimum. As I see it, Christ's substance was that of fully God and fully man, what the ancient scholars defined as or homooúsios. Upon being crucified, He as an entity did indeed die, and His body was interred as described in the Gospels. However, while it is in man's nature to be mortal and to change, God is immortal and immutable, and He continued to exist and interact with the world for a period, identifying himself as Jesus, before resuming His previous role. Jesus the man died, Christ always was and always will be. They were one and the same, with two natures, existing in hypostatic union.

I don't mean this to be a personal attack but as beautifully worded as that is it still seems fairly illogical to me. As much fun and stimulating these debates are there's fundamentally no point in them. Some people believe, some people don't believe and neither are going to change their mind. Non-believers site evidence and nothing more, believers site faith and nothing more (and sometimes Ancient Greek).

Jesus might have been gay back in the day. There's a thought.

I found parts of this documentary quite interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmhhZ-dex-k (The God Who Wasn't There)

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Some people believe homosexuality is wrong, some people don't believe homosexuality is wrong and neither are going to change their mind.

Just to throw in the other side....not my side I hasten to add....but the crux of the matter is that something has to give and modern day society thinking is swinging in favour of gay marriage....

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I'm not evangelizing or trying to prove anything, I was just asked for my take on things. Convincing you or anyone else of the logic or lack thereof of the situation wasn't really the point of the post.

He may well have been. I don't see how His being gay would have made any difference to His teachings.

Why is "His" capitalised? Is that a typo or is there a reasoning behind it?

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Can we just put it down to a poor choice of words? I don't consider homosexuality an affliction in humans, and while there may be drawbacks for other species which experience it I don't think it's a particularly important point to explore.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Ah, now there's a meaty issue. I'll try to keep any professions of faith to a minimum. As I see it, Christ's substance was that of fully God and fully man, what the ancient scholars defined as ὁμοούσιος or homooúsios. Upon being crucified, He as an entity did indeed die, and His body was interred as described in the Gospels. However, while it is in man's nature to be mortal and to change, God is immortal and immutable, and He continued to exist and interact with the world for a period, identifying himself as Jesus, before resuming His previous role. Jesus the man died, Christ always was and always will be. They were one and the same, with two natures, existing in hypostatic union.

So you don't believe Jesus was a prophet but instead was God incarnate?

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I've been trying to play a devil's advocate role in my own head but i still can't see any legitimate reason why the church would want to stop equal marriage, other than on the grounds of religious belief.

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