Randy Watson 101 Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 So my point is that this thread is invalid unless you're asking 1- do you like this piece of music and 2- why?It's meant to be a bit of fun, and in most cases the 'rules' (sorry to inhibit the non-conformists...sheesh) apply to genres, and not all music in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Zero Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I have carefully honed my rules for what constitutes good music over about 30 years of listening. The rules have been carefully adjusted and have become definitive at this stage in my life, in fact so definitive that the rules have become one: -Thou shalt not be shite to mine ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Watson 101 Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 And where one has heard it. And one's emotional state at the time.Context is a huge thing in my own enjoyment of music, and it follows no rules at all. I can hear a song or see it performed live and it can have a devastatingly profound effect on me; but equally, I can listen to it the following day/week and feel entirely indifferent about it.Sure, the thread started as semi tongue-in-cheek, but the idea of 'rules' applied to why I like something (not just music) makes me feel a little uncomfortable.I'm with Teabags on this one.The thread started the way it was meant to end. If you think I'd stand here and say that all these 'rules', principles, were steadfast and couldn't be manipulated, then, I must say, I'd consider you to have a ridiculously low opinion of my ability to open-minded in a musical sense. Which is kind of insulting, really.This was meant to be light-hearted, and, I'll be honest, this has be turned into a slinging match about those evil people who insist on rules. Everyone has an opinion about the music they like, and if they didn't know why they like what they like, then it would be sheer coincidence to even muster, in all your lifetime, a handful of songs that you enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabags Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I genuinely didn't think it would hurt someone's head to think this through. Id' say I'm not being patronising, but I am.It doesn't hurt my head because I'm simply not going to think about it.Its like you're going...Me: This is an ace song.You: Why?Me: What do you mean why? I don't know, because it's quite good. I like the way it sounds.You: But why? Is it cos of emotions, the technicality, the speed, the FUCKING CHORD CHANGES?!?!?! TELL ME!Me: I don't want to talk to you any more.EDIT: Oh, and while I was typing that, for some reason the song going through my head was Not Fair by Lily Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HateEvent Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 It doesn't hurt my head because I'm simply not going to think about it.Its like you're going...Me: This is an ace song.You: Why?Me: What do you mean why? I don't know, because it's quite good. I like the way it sounds.You: But why? Is it cos of emotions, the technicality, the speed, the FUCKING CHORD CHANGES?!?!?! TELL ME!Me: I don't want to talk to you any more.EDIT: Oh, and while I was typing that, for some reason the song going through my head was Not Fair by Lily AllenWHY is that the song going through your head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 If that's the case, which one is it that makes the song "good"? Depends on the song, the audience, the subject the song is about, everything.Plus, even if that is true, which it kind of is, should that be the be all and end all of it? Would it not be more interesting to see someone do something opposite to that?Is someone going to turn around and say "I would like this song, but it doesn't follow my rules to being a good song."? No, cos that would be fucking ridiculous.So basically, it all boils back to "I liked/didn't like what I just heard."Completely agree. I either like or dislike a song based on a whole heap of factors like time of day, context, mood, weather even. I just think it's quite interesting to dissect how tastes are formed and think it's almost a separate discussion. I can listen to a song and think it's a brilliant piece of music yet not like it. There must be something in that. Also, if there are no rules, how are genres in existence?Drawing a dumb parallel with films for a second, there are clearly rules that have to be bided by to create a cohesive film. Those which don't adhere can be analysed exactly for their deviation and given merit based on that. Shaun of the Dead and Reservoir Dogs (for example) are considered good films partly because they play on conventions set by their predecessors. If these conventions didn't exist, those two examples wouldn't either.I do feel in some way our enjoyment of Art does hinge on certain 'rules' even if it is in the absence of any.I'm gonna stop before I start quoting Derrida or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Watson 101 Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 It doesn't hurt my head because I'm simply not going to think about it.Its like you're going...Me: This is an ace song.You: Why?Me: What do you mean why? I don't know, because it's quite good. I like the way it sounds.You: But why? Is it cos of emotions, the technicality, the speed, the FUCKING CHORD CHANGES?!?!?! TELL ME!Me: I don't want to talk to you any more.EDIT: Oh, and while I was typing that, for some reason the song going through my head was Not Fair by Lily AllenI'm in the minority here, but if you're not willing to think about it, bugger off. You shot yourself in your own fucking foot telling me how, actually, subjective music is. I replied that that was essentially the root of this thread. The flippancy in how some of these opinions regarding these awful rules I'm talking about, is put across was meant to be the beauty of saying something beyond 'This is shite' or 'I like this - period'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabags Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Cos its a type of song I wouldn't usually listen to but I like.Here's 2 examples.Mumford & Son - Little Lion Man: Really like this song but I have no fucking clue why. I just heard it and like it.Cher Lloyd - Swagger Jagger: Fucking hate that song, no idea why, I just heard it and went "jesus, that is fucking pish." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Android Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Only good thing about this thread is that it reminded me I still haven't got round to Lily Allen's second album. I've got to sort it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabags Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Shaun of the Dead and Reservoir Dogs (for example) are considered good films partly because they play on conventions set by their predecessors.They're good pieces of film, but subjectively, not everyone enjoys those films. Only the majority do.Also, when someone breaks those conventions and makes a good film without them, then their a pioneer a better film maker. At least I think so anyway.Same with music. If we were going by what the majority of people think is good then Cher Lloyd is a musical genius, Harry Potter is the greatest story ever written and nicking TVs in Clapham Junction is really fucking fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 They're good pieces of film, but subjectively, not everyone enjoys those films. Only the majority do.This is what I mean when I say it's a separate discussion. You can regard something as 'good' but not 'like' it.Also, when someone breaks those conventions and makes a good film without them, then their a pioneer a better film maker. At least I think so anyway.And, this proves my point that our enjoyment and appreciation of art does in some way revolve around some notion of convention.I feel we're arguing the same point(ish)**you fucking knob!****I'm just trying to fit in with the theme of the thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabags Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Here's another rule: swearing makes everything better, especially music.Fucking cunts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HateEvent Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'm in the minority here, but if you're not willing to think about it, bugger off. You shot yourself in your own fucking foot telling me how, actually, subjective music is. I replied that that was essentially the root of this thread. The flippancy in how some of these opinions regarding these awful rules I'm talking about, is put across was meant to be the beauty of saying something beyond 'This is shite' or 'I like this - period'.Maybe the point being made which opposes yours is that musical dissection isn't applied by everyone. To those particular people, there are no "rules" which dictate whether the music is good to their ears. This is why it is left as a subjective topic. Inexplainable is maybe a term to consider in this instance. An amalgamation of melodies/techniques/tonalities/time signatures/drones/instrumentation/accenting etc. may constitute the like/dislike of a particular piece of music, rather than one particular contributing aspect.If a particular rule constituted the like/dislike of music to me, my musical horizons would be rendered bland (in my own opinion). I don't like the thought of putting any limitations on my aural imagination. I don't see, nor do I understand, why anyone does or would wish to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Android Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Cher Lloyd may be no. 1 but I don't think the majority of people think Swagger Jagger is a good song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Cher Lloyd may be no. 1 but I don't think the majority of people think Swagger Jagger is a good song.I've never even heard the song but I hate it. Where does that fit into this discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Android Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 The next level of WHY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabags Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I've never even heard the song but I hate it. Where does that fit into this discussion?It means you're gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Android Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 But WHY does it mean he is gay?Something to do with chord changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eupraxia Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 The thread started the way it was meant to end. If you think I'd stand here and say that all these 'rules', principles, were steadfast and couldn't be manipulated, then, I must say, I'd consider you to have a ridiculously low opinion of my ability to open-minded in a musical sense. Which is kind of insulting, really.Okay. I ought to apologise for 'insulting' you. But I'm not going to, because I haven't insulted you. Trust me, if I had insulted you, I'd make a better effort of it than that by offering such epithets like: bum-grape, jizz-juggler, wank-sock, and vulva-chin.Stop starting shite threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Easy Wishes Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 But WHY does it mean he is gay?Something to do with chord changes?Yeah, the vocal chord changes when the organ entershis throat.Guuuhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabags Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 But WHY does it mean he is gay?Something to do with chord changes?Aye. MAJOR ones.He played his banjo string backwards and now he is cross eyed, prone to pneumonia and gets sweaty feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemonade Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 How did this bullshit thread get to 46 posts? Show of hands for closing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Easy Wishes Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HateEvent Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I was hoping that I'd receive a reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I think there's genuine discussion to be had on the topic but most don't seem to thinks so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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