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2011/2012 Season Thread

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Without Hartley's goals and influence last season I think we would have gone down. As soon as he got injured we absolutely nosedived.

Bernard was a good signing (and tlak of him being on 8k is lol....Craig Hignett is our all-time highest earner at 6700 p/w) but had huge injury problems. No doubting his abilities as a player.

You mean all 4 of his goals in the league? 3 of which came from penalties in his first game. This is also where this fallacy of him being good for Aberdeen came from.

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You mean all 4 of his goals in the league? 3 of which came from penalties in his first game. This is also where this fallacy of him being good for Aberdeen came from.

Aye. He was a recht good penalty taker, recht enough.

I still don't feel he was any better than Mark Kerr or Gary McDonald in central midfield for Aberdeen.

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I believe this is indeed true.

May I ask what you base this belief on? I'm trying to find information about this, like SPL wage budget pie charts and the like, but I'm getting nowhere. Not that it affects any of my views, but I'd quite like to know.

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Aye. He was a recht good penalty taker, recht enough.

I still don't feel he was any better than Mark Kerr or Gary McDonald in central midfield for Aberdeen.

Now that's just completely ridiculous. Although it was clear he was "losing his legs" halfway through the season, he was still a good player for us. We didn't have a central midfield whatsoever before Hartley came along. He was better in every way than Mark Kerr and Gary MacDonald, who were the worst central midfield pairing in the league. His performances for Bristol City (a decent team in a decent league who he regularly turned out and performed well for) more than justified the wages he was put on, it just turned out that that extra year in age didn't do him any favours. Honestly, Paul Hartley should never be compared to Kerr or MacDonald. Ludicrous.

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Now that's just completely ridiculous. Although it was clear he was "losing his legs" halfway through the season, he was still a good player for us. We didn't have a central midfield whatsoever before Hartley came along. He was better in every way than Mark Kerr and Gary MacDonald, who were the worst central midfield pairing in the league. His performances for Bristol City (a decent team in a decent league who he regularly turned out and performed well for) more than justified the wages he was put on, it just turned out that that extra year in age didn't do him any favours. Honestly, Paul Hartley should never be compared to Kerr or MacDonald. Ludicrous.

I see where you're coming from. But then I look at where Aberdeen were finishing in the league with Kerr and McDonald in midfield, and since then (and it's not as if Aberdeen went through a squad overhaul) the club seem to be performing at a lower level; defeating less teams; dominating less games (not that they tended to dominate many games); and incurring more defeats.

I know that there are other factors to consider, but the central midfield area is key for any team and I just really wasn't impressed with what I saw from Hartley last season. However I am more than prepared to admit that you and other Paul Hartley defenders saw more of him in the flesh last term, thus you have more to base opinions on.

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If we had Hartley a year earlier he would have been our best signing for years, but sadly his legs were not up to it last season, he started ok but as soon as he got a few knocks it was easy to see he was finished, shame because he would have been a fantastic influence around the dressing room for the younger guys.

Id say comparing anyone to McDonald is harsh but i see what you mean

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Some serious revisionism regarding Hartley going on. How quickly some of our fans turn on their own! The team nosedived when he got injured...the likes of Langfield, Diamond and Considine showed that they couldn't be relied upon, and yet we turn on the one leader who showed some spirit? Yes he was clearly struggling with injury from January onwards, but there are many more culpable for our woes last term. Diamond was our highest earner, and contributed about 1/10th of what PH did.

The Craig Hignett as our highest ever earner on 6700 has been quoted in numerous articles over the years. I find it hard to believe that we were paying 8k p/w in 1995. Obviously I might be wrong, but the common consensus is that Hignett was the biggest ever earner.

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May I ask what you base this belief on? I'm trying to find information about this, like SPL wage budget pie charts and the like, but I'm getting nowhere. Not that it affects any of my views, but I'd quite like to know.

It's been well publicised many a time.

It's been all over chat sites, annual reports etc etc.

I don't have any figures to hand, as I couldn't give a flying fuck.

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Some serious revisionism regarding Hartley going on. How quickly some of our fans turn on their own! The team nosedived when he got injured...the likes of Langfield, Diamond and Considine showed that they couldn't be relied upon, and yet we turn on the one leader who showed some spirit? Yes he was clearly struggling with injury from January onwards, but there are many more culpable for our woes last term. Diamond was our highest earner, and contributed about 1/10th of what PH did.

Only two people have stated that they thought he was relatively poor. And I am one of them. And I can't really call myself an Aberdeen supporter. Furthermore, I never said he was good in the first place (by first place I mean when Aberdeen signed him and at the start of last season), but I did feel he had the potential at that point to be really good for us. Which I don't feel he was.

The Craig Hignett as our highest ever earner on 6700 has been quoted in numerous articles over the years. I find it hard to believe that we were paying 8k p/w in 1995. Obviously I might be wrong, but the common consensus is that Hignett was the biggest ever earner.

I'm happy to go with the Craig Hignett thing. Articles over the years and general consensus is good enough for me. I'm still going to persevere and say that Paul Bernard is the worst signing for Aberdeen Football Club in my living memory, though.

But suggesting that giving 8k per week to Paul Bernard in 1995 is hard to believe seems weird to me, given that the club paid one million pounds for him. In 1995. I don't have figures to base this on, but I would suggest that the Aberdeen squad in 1995 was, on average, the highest earning squad in the club's history.

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It's been well publicised many a time.

It's been all over chat sites, annual reports etc etc.

I don't have any figures to hand, as I couldn't give a flying fuck.

Cool. I'll go look for them some more. I would think that a well publicised piece of information should be easy to find.

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That is an extremely important thing.

Yeah i agree. When saying this i was suggesting that even though there is little verve and imagination at AFC in bringing in talent he is keeping the bank from getting jittery on our debt. I worded rather negatively me thinks.

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Anyone watching this bizarre Celtic v Man U legends game on ITV 4? As well as Keane, Larsson, Moravcik, Yorke, Lennon, McAvennie, Dublin, Coyle et al, Man U have Richard Ashcroft, Patrick Kielty and Ralf Little in their team, and Celtic have Gerard Butler.

Edit- Patrick Kielty is a damn good keeper! Can we get him for the Dons?

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Christy, I've noticed your appreciation for Hartley before and I find it totally baffling. He was at best a mediocre player for us. Saw him have one stand out game (out of all the home games I went to, and the 3-4 away ones) and that was it. Meant to be experienced but got sent off for kicking out at a boy and helping us to lose 3 points (or a point). Didn't seem to motivate anyone especially, either. Total fallacy.

For the record, I wanted to like him. I convinced myself over and over he was a good player but eventually reality sank in within 2-3 months. Average at best.

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Owner of one of the best nicknames in all of sporting history: Chariots. GET IN THERE.

I see your "Chariots" Offiah, and raise you "One Size" Fitz Hall.

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I see your "Chariots" Offiah, and raise you "One Size" Fitz Hall.

I said one of the best precisely because of One Size. That's my all time favourite.

In football news - Middlesbrough got a comfortable 3-0 in the Carling Cup against Walsall despite Lee Miller playing for 70 minutes. He did not score. Hat trick for Marvin Emnes who's had a scorching first couple of games. I'm glad Swansea didn't get their mitts on him.

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Some not so recent stsats about wages/turnover in the SPL and beyond here:

The Political Economy of Football | UK and World Soccer

Only up to 07/08 but the turnover and %wages/turnover make interesting reading.

2007/2008 season

Abdn: turnover: 12.9 mill. wage bill=5.93 million for 102 employees. Average wage 58.1K.

Dundee Utd: turnover 5.9 mill, wage bill=3.34 mill for 83 employees. Average wage 40.2K

Hibs: turnover 8.1 mill, wage bill=4.6 mill for 111 employees. Average wage 41.6K

Hearts: turnover 9.2 mill, wage bill not available but for 161 employees and 2005/2006 seasons wage to turnover ration of 97% probably make it pretty huge comparatively speaking. Romanov was only in charge for half that season but the wage bill ended up massively more per turnover than any other club. I make that a wage bill of 9.7 mill in the 2005/2006 season. The average wage at Hearts for that season was 88.5K. I reiterate: he was only in charge for half of that season.

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Christy, I've noticed your appreciation for Hartley before and I find it totally baffling. He was at best a mediocre player for us. Saw him have one stand out game (out of all the home games I went to, and the 3-4 away ones) and that was it. Meant to be experienced but got sent off for kicking out at a boy and helping us to lose 3 points (or a point). Didn't seem to motivate anyone especially, either. Total fallacy.

For the record, I wanted to like him. I convinced myself over and over he was a good player but eventually reality sank in within 2-3 months. Average at best.

Simple as this: last season we were absolutely terrible and could well have been relegated. We needed people to be step up and Hartley's presence in the midfield stopped us being run over in certain important games. He was our third most important player last season, behind Bebo and Vernon.

If you don't see how important Hartley was, just look at how we performed without him. Besides a pumping of Killie (which was great!) we sorely missed his influence.

His red card for retalitation was bad. No excuses. I'm not saying that he was without fault, but Jesus, there were tons more responsible for our struggles than Hartley. He was a good signing, all things considered.

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Simple as this: last season we were absolutely terrible and could well have been relegated. We needed people to be step up and Hartley's presence in the midfield stopped us being run over in certain important games. He was our third most important player last season, behind Bebo and Vernon.

If you don't see how important Hartley was, just look at how we performed without him. Besides a pumping of Killie (which was great!) we sorely missed his influence.

His red card for retalitation was bad. No excuses. I'm not saying that he was without fault, but Jesus, there were tons more responsible for our struggles than Hartley. He was a good signing, all things considered.

I always though that what Hartley lacked in mobility he always made up for on leadership.

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