Pickup purchasing help!!

[xDamerx]

Hey guys,

I've been contemplating getting some new pickups for my Ibanez RG, can't remember what model exactly, but it has the INF1 and INF2's in it. I usually play on the bridge pickup and find it sounds a bit muddy, the neck isn't too bad for the lead-type solo stuff, not that I can shred or anything...

I'm thinkin of getting EMG's, probably the 81 for the bridge, maybe with the 85 for the neck combo, but not too sure, so just wondering what you guys think.. experience!? I play heavy music, so I know the EMG's are more for metal, and I'm ok with that, as a blues tone isn't really what I'm going for... Any other recommendations? I've read that the Dimarzio Evolutions are pretty decent, but haven't read much on them!!

Any help would be appreciated!!

Damo

[xDamerx]

Thanks John!

I've been pricing that set up anyways, and turns out it's cheaper to buy the "Zakk Wilde" pickups, which is the 81/85 in one package, instead of buying both separately and paying more! I do know they are active, and there is more than enough space in the pot cavity of my rg to fit a 9 volt in there! Any idea on how long the battery will last, as I just bought a 5 string bass with active pickups and have no idea how long they last fresh!

Next time I see ya I'll give you a ! ;P

[Monk Rocker]

Damo!

The batteries will last aaaaaggggeeeesssssss in an active bass, so I'm assuming the guitar will be the same. Just keep a spare in your guitar case as a back up:-)

[Soda Jerk]

From what I was told when I had EMG's, the battery will last 1000 hours or something, as long as you don't leave your guitar lead plugged in, as that drains the battery. So, ages really.

I didn't really like EMG's myself, and I was playing heavy music at the time. They sounded a bit brittle when they weren't being pushed with heaps of drive. Anything clean or slightly driven just didn't cut it for me. For heavy music these days, I wouldn't really look past some of the high gain Bareknuckle stuff. I have a ceramic Warpig which is just mental. Sounds brilliant when played clean and also with just a bit of drive too. Very versatile for a hot pickup and doesn't muddy up despite the humongous amounts of gain it puts out. I've had a Nailbomb and a Miracle Man too, and they were both sweet, and much more enjoyable to play through than the EMG81, in my opinion.

[HateEvent]

I have a substantial reply for this which I'll put up when I finish this uni lab

[HateEvent]

Hey guys,

I've been contemplating getting some new pickups for my Ibanez RG, can't remember what model exactly, but it has the INF1 and INF2's in it. I usually play on the bridge pickup and find it sounds a bit muddy, the neck isn't too bad for the lead-type solo stuff, not that I can shred or anything...

The INF1 and 2 pickups are terrible. They have no presence and sound extremely thin. I'm glad that you've noticed this and are sorting it out! No matter what amp I used with them, their bad points always showed prominence in the sound.

I'm thinkin of getting EMG's, probably the 81 for the bridge, maybe with the 85 for the neck combo, but not too sure, so just wondering what you guys think.. experience!? I play heavy music, so I know the EMG's are more for metal, and I'm ok with that, as a blues tone isn't really what I'm going for... Any other recommendations? I've read that the Dimarzio Evolutions are pretty decent, but haven't read much on them!!

Any help would be appreciated!!

Damo

EMGs are a difficult one to decide on. Depending on the rest of your setup and the precise sound you are gunning for, they can either be the perfect pickup or not work whatsoever. They don't really have an in-between sound, it's pretty much all full on or nothing!

I use EMGs in both my ESP KH-2 and Hanneman as it gives exactly the sound I'm aiming for with them. They are alder bodied with maple necks, so sound somewhat similar acoustically to an RG (basswood bodied).

The main thing with EMGs is that they are very trebly. Many people will say that they are shrill and sound tinny/weak. As far as I'm concerned, that is total crap. Yes they are more trebly than other pickups, but if you know how to set up an amp to accommodate properly then you'll get a good sound. I get complimented on my sound often enough so I guess I'm doing something right!

With regards to the different models, the main difference between the 81 and 85 is that the 81 is ceramic and the 85 is alnico. The main characteristic of alnico is that it is much warmer and fatter sounding than alnico (when output ratings etc. are like for like). If you want a bit of a chunkier sound, opt for the 85 at the bridge. The 81 is sharper and more cutting certainly, but, again, it depends what you're aiming for.

EDIT. EMGs are active though, so your either gonna have to route a hole in your guitar or find somewhere to squeeze a 9v battery. Most likely the latter as i've never met someone who has had to do the former.

Plenty of space in an RG, definitely no need to route anything out

Thanks John!

I've been pricing that set up anyways, and turns out it's cheaper to buy the "Zakk Wilde" pickups, which is the 81/85 in one package, instead of buying both separately and paying more! I do know they are active, and there is more than enough space in the pot cavity of my rg to fit a 9 volt in there! Any idea on how long the battery will last, as I just bought a 5 string bass with active pickups and have no idea how long they last fresh!

Next time I see ya I'll give you a ! ;P

The Zakk Wylde set are indeed just the 81 and 85. However, they are supplied with longer shaft pots as the Zakk Wylde Gibson's/Epiphones are arched and so the pot shaft need to be longer. These will extend too far than required for your RG. You can't use the original pots as the EMGs require 25k pots, whereas the INF1 & 2 use 500k.

The battery life is 3000 continuous hours. I'd say that if practicing/gigging often enough, you'd get a year out of them. However, your sound will deteriorate over that time. I change mine every 6 months to keep it fresh and full sounding. I also always put in a new battery before recording. This brightens up the sound dramatically too. If you put 2 9V batteries in series, you'll gain more headroom and smooth the sound out. Google 'EMG 18V mod' for more info

I didn't really like EMG's myself, and I was playing heavy music at the time. They sounded a bit brittle when they weren't being pushed with heaps of drive. Anything clean or slightly driven just didn't cut it for me. For heavy music these days, I wouldn't really look past some of the high gain Bareknuckle stuff. I have a ceramic Warpig which is just mental. Sounds brilliant when played clean and also with just a bit of drive too. Very versatile for a hot pickup and doesn't muddy up despite the humongous amounts of gain it puts out. I've had a Nailbomb and a Miracle Man too, and they were both sweet, and much more enjoyable to play through than the EMG81, in my opinion.

Bare Knuckle is a brilliant shout as an alternative. Only other pickup I've been totally satisfied with. I used to use an alnico Warpig in my Dean (mahogany body and neck).

I'll re-edit this and add a bit more when I get back from practice.

[Soda Jerk]

I've never heard the Alnico Warpig, I don't think. Is there a noticable difference? I exchanged a few emails with the chap at BK, and after telling him what I wanted, he recommended the Ceramic Warpig.

I've have the coils split too. The single coil setting could cut a man in half. Proper mean!

[HateEvent]

Ok, it seems there is a 60 minute time limit for editing posts (I did know this, just completely forgot) so I'll add the rest of what I was going to say in this one instead:-

Regarding what I was saying about the magnet types being different between the 81 (ceramic) and the 85 (alnico), there is a great mini article from Tim at Bare Knuckle pickups which briefly explains characteristics:

As requested here's some notes on magnet types I posted previously which I hope will be useful:

"Magnets do add to the character of a pickup although it must be understood that a magnet doesn't have a sound on it's own, it contributes by the way it accentuates certain frequencies as current is produced in the coil windings.

Alnico II is the softest and generally has a smooth bass and treble although this is more pronounced the hotter the windings get.

Alnico III is very transparent, low output and clean,sounds great for rounded fat jazz applications-typical of '50s tone.

Alnico IV is probably the best vintage tone IMHO(for humbuckers) and along with II and III was used in the earliest PAFs-this is a fact and not myth as we've had them analysed and a collegue of mine has also seen original Gibson purchase orders that clearly state AIV bar stock being purchased.The tone of AIV is balanced and extremely organic, it produces the most authentic vintage tone and sits better in slightly hotter vintage winds than AII which tends to get very soft in the bass and highs if used incorrectly.

Finally Alnico V is the hottest producing more highs and lows, great for rock applications or where power and cut are important.

Different companies use different grades for personal reasons, we use all of the applicable Alnico grades to suit the correct design, both to be historically correct but more importantly to have the best sound.

Changing magnets in a humbucker can give dramatic results, you soon find the ones that really don't sit right and others that are head and shoulders better.Obviously you can't swap out single coil magnets as they're integral to the coil form.

I've personally spent alot of time voicing all the BKP range with the correct magnets but I do tweak and swap sometimes on consultation with a customer with a specific requirement."

The above is - as you can see - for alnico magnet types, as there are variants within that type alone, never mind including ceramics!

Generally, the ceramics - again, like I said above - are thinner sounding than the alnico equivalents (81 being thinner than an 85). The high end cuts more but it doesn't have the balls that the alnico does. My experiences have been overly enhanced on all properties though as I use the 81 in alder guitars and I used the 85 in an all mahogany guitar (Jackson Kevin Bond).

For reference, if you go to the Element 106 myspace, "Of Flame and Retribution" and "Born Erased" feature the Kevin Bond whilst the other 3 tracks feature my KH-2. This may give an idea as to the difference between the 85 and 81 (although radically enhanced due to being in different guitars). Click here for KCHGH recordings too, that was the Hanneman and so is the 81 again. The same EQ was used on the same amp with the same valves every time. The KCHGH one will sound different of course due to different mics and such being used though. Still gives an idea of how it sounds though!

(of course, you could just listen to Metallica, Slayer, Zakk Wylde etc. as they all use an 81 at the bridge )

I've never heard the Alnico Warpig, I don't think. Is there a noticable difference? I exchanged a few emails with the chap at BK, and after telling him what I wanted, he recommended the Ceramic Warpig.

I've have the coils split too. The single coil setting could cut a man in half. Proper mean!

The alnico Warpig is the standard configuration from Bare Knuckle. As I described above, the alnico is warmer and fatter sounding. I thought you'd prefer the sound of that to the ceramic, which is slightly scratchier. 4 conductor is a stock setup as well, to allow for coil tapping. Again, a bit smoother on single coil mode with the alnico!

i've never changed my battery and sound fine. Just never got round to it, but i know ity will sound better if i do sometime soon.

Ah man do it! You won't have to crank the treble, gain and presence as much as you probably do at the moment!

I'll add more stuff as I remember things haha! Got dinner to have now, which - as much as I can talk at length about music gear - is more important to me right now

[Soda Jerk]

The alnico Warpig is the standard configuration from Bare Knuckle. As I described above, the alnico is warmer and fatter sounding. I thought you'd prefer the sound of that to the ceramic, which is slightly scratchier. 4 conductor is a stock setup as well, to allow for coil tapping. Again, a bit smoother on single coil mode with the alnico!

That makes sense. I told him I was after high gain with a harsh upper-mid presence rather than a thicker boomy sort of sound. He originally recommended the Pig90 (P90 version of the Warpig, obvs), but when I told him my current set up was coil tapped, he recommended the Ceramic 'Pig and tapping it, to get the best of both worlds. I didn't really question his suggestions as he knows what he's talking about it seems, haha.

[xDamerx]

HateEvent, thanks for all the input, I really appreciate all the help!!

I think I am pretty much sold on the EMG 81, pretty much contemplating between the 85 or the 60 for the neck pickup. I noticed that ESP Eclipse II come with the 60. Opinions?! And which would be better for doing sweeping and stuff higher up the neck with distortion for the neck position? My Ibanez's pickup on the neck position is surprisingly pretty decent sounding! But I'm not going half way and only buying one new pickup.

As well, I've read a few other forums where guys have put in 81's and 85's, and there was no mention of changing the pots. Was wondering if this is a must? and how hard would it be to change my 5 way switch to a 3 way, as I only ever use the bridge-only and neck-only positions.

Thanks again guys for the input!! Really appreciated!!

[HateEvent]

That makes sense. I told him I was after high gain with a harsh upper-mid presence rather than a thicker boomy sort of sound. He originally recommended the Pig90 (P90 version of the Warpig, obvs), but when I told him my current set up was coil tapped, he recommended the Ceramic 'Pig and tapping it, to get the best of both worlds. I didn't really question his suggestions as he knows what he's talking about it seems, haha.

Ah fair enough then!

Yeah, the alnico will give a bit more 'boom' as you put it. Depending on what EMGs you used previously (81 and 85 would be handy for this discussion haha!) you'd notice those same characteristics very clearly! The 81 to the 85 being as the ceramic Warpig is to the alnico Warpig (within their individual constraints of course!).

The guys at Bare Knuckle are certainly very good. I like how they have a good knowledge of alternative options so they know what sort of sound you are aiming for/currently have if you reference other models from different manufacturers and they work from there. I'm going to need to get something new for my Dean at some point I think. Have been tempted by the Aftermath as it seems extremely percussive, but they're just an expensive route to go down (especially custom spec) to find out it isn't what you're totally after!

I've not used my Eclipse for recording, performing or in a band practice in a long time which is why i've never got round to it, i barely use it any more in fact, but i love that damn thing, dunno if i could ever sell it.

It's a very nice guitar man, you should get it back out! When you do though, remember those batteries

HateEvent, thanks for all the input, I really appreciate all the help!!

I think I am pretty much sold on the EMG 81, pretty much contemplating between the 85 or the 60 for the neck pickup. I noticed that ESP Eclipse II come with the 60. Opinions?! And which would be better for doing sweeping and stuff higher up the neck with distortion for the neck position? My Ibanez's pickup on the neck position is surprisingly pretty decent sounding! But I'm not going half way and only buying one new pickup.

No problem dude, hope you're ready for this next essay haha!

The 81 is a decent choice for the bridge for sure. As I mentioned, there are so many 'renowned' players in metal that use them. Including myself But seriously, it is certainly a good starting point!

With regards to what to mate with it in the neck:

The 60, 85 and 89 are probably the most popular options.

The 60 is ceramic as well (as the 81) so sonically matches up with the 81 pretty well. It's very smooth for cleans. (As mentioned before, gear you're combining with the guitar will have a massive impact on the overall sound, but for reference, Hetfield uses an EMG 60 at the neck position through a Roland JC-120 for Metallica's cleans (more particularly 1995 onwards).

The 60 gives a reasonable smoothly driven sound for leads. It isn't 'searing' as such, just very fat. It really brings the sound back to being smooth no matter what you're trying to achieve in my opinion, despite having quite a high output. It'd sound good 'crunchy' if you used lots of mids. If you scoop though, it'll always seem a little lacking.

In other words, I like the 60 for cleans and smooth, fat leads. That is all.

The 85 is quite a good choice. It is alnico so is generally warmer but with slightly less power in the magnets. This means that to have the same output, there is a liiiiiiiittle bit more noise than the 81. Nothing bad, don't get me wrong, just the ceramic pickups are quieter (hum etc.) per output rating.

As it has that high output, it works better as an overall rhythm pickup than the 60 in my opinion. The best example I can think of to sum up the 85 is Zakk Wylde (funnily enough, given his set was mentioned by yourself earlier!).

It is a lot bassier and 'boomier' (like mentioned by Soda Jerk as a characteristic he didn't want, which is why the ceramic Warpig option was given to him rather than alnico Warpig) due to those alnico V magnets. I find this sometimes a little frustrating for cleans as it can accentuate the bottom end a little too much I find.

The 89 is a great option as it is a coil tappable version of the 85. When in humbucker mode, it is quite simply exactly an 85 when in humbucker mode and then an EMG SA single coil when in single coil mode. This allows for a little more clarity when split, whereas you get the fat, full sound the 85 gives when in humbucker mode. Definitely worth keeping in mind!

(The main EMG single coils are the S and SA. The S being ceramic and the SA being alnico).

There are, of course, a few other options which remain within the EMG range.

EMG 81 (neck): This is very good if you like to do lead work but keep a somewhat sharp sound. Obviously not as harsh as the bridge position, but you'll get a very powerful and clear attack with an 81 at the neck.

For cleans, it is pretty trebly. The exact opposite of the 85 really! This is where the accusations of EMGs sounding trebly and weak compared to passive pickups is certainly applicable! If you roll the 'tone' off on your guitar and boost the bass on your amp you can get away with it, but it isn't the ideal choice if you'll use many cleans.

EMG 81TW. This is to an 81 what an 89 is to an 85. It is an 81 in humbucker mode which splits to become an S in single coil mode. Again, clarity is increased with fatness being removed. Given that the 81 in the neck isn't particularly fat, I'd probably stay away from this one!

An 81TW at the bridge may be a good option though, as you could get a really harsh single coil sound when splitting it at this position!

EMG 60A. This is an alnico version of the regular 60. It retains many of the voicing characteristics of the regular 60 but utilising alnico magnets. Due to this, it will match slightly better when using an 85 at the bridge position.

As the 60 is substantial in bass frequency as it is, I think that a 60A may be a bit too much. It would be interesting to pair it with an 81TW at the bridge though as you'd have an extremely fat neck pickup and an extremely harsh and trebly bridge pickup (when in single coil mode). Big spectrum of sound there!

*EDIT* I forgot about the new-ish EMG X series. There are things like the 81-X and so on. These are said to offer greater headroom and a more 'organic' sound than the original variants. I've never tried them though so can't agree/disagree with the claims.

When it comes to enhancing headroom on the regular models via the 18V mod that I mentioned in a previous post, yes you will have more scope for a cleaner and smoother sound when all other factors are kept constant, BUT, the downside to this is you lose a bit of that low end 'chug' that I find quite important in a lot of 'metal' circumstances. Again, it depends on what you're gunning for as to whether you would do the mod or not.

Also, don't forget that with any of the EMG pickups, they are all quik-connect. This means it is very, VERY easy to swap them around. It would be particularly handy if you opted for an 81 and 85 as both have good characteristics at either neck or bridge. So you could swap between 81 bridge and 85 bridge quickly and easily depending on the sound you require (as long as one of them meets it, of course). You could also radically change your neck pickup sound by swapping the two as they have different characteristics there too (as I mentioned waaaaaaaay above ).

As well, I've read a few other forums where guys have put in 81's and 85's, and there was no mention of changing the pots. Was wondering if this is a must? and how hard would it be to change my 5 way switch to a 3 way, as I only ever use the bridge-only and neck-only positions.

Thanks again guys for the input!! Really appreciated!!

There is no need to change the pots if you are swapping between an 81 and 85 as all of the EMGs (humbuckers at least) use the 25k rated pots.

If changing between passive (250k and 500k as standard, depending on single coil or humbucker layout) and active, you MUST change the pots. Well you don't HAVE to, but it'll sound shit if you don't!

You'll lose a lot of the sound properties that EMGs are meant to produce. At such low impedance and only requiring a 25k pot, a 250k/500k will make them just sound 'wrong'. If they weren't necessary, they wouldn't suggest and supply them!

Remember to change your jack socket to a stereo one as well, otherwise your batteries will last no time.

For the 3-way/5-way switch, just follow the appropriate wiring diagram for your desired configuration. EMG provide very good diagrams with their (now solderless) pickup sets.

[xDamerx]

I'm not sure what the standard pots are in my RG, I'll check when I get home from offshore, but I don't plan to swap from passive to active, just have the active pickups in all the time. That is a good idea about how they come with the easy quick connect, as I really could play around with them and see what sort of sounds I can get. I'm sold on the 81 pretty much but gonna have to really think about between the 85 and 60, but the 60 is sounding more like what I am wanting than the 85. My RG sounds shit in clean with what is in it right now, so anything will probably be better!

HateEvent, how do you hold all this knowledge!!! Haha!

[Soda Jerk]

So, 'Boomy' is now official tone lingo. Get in.

[The Sloth]

EMG pickups are ace if you want a super crunchy, clean and precise sound.

I prefer the EMG 60 in the neck. I had an 81 and 85 setup and found the 85 too overpowering (you could say boomy!) in the neck position. 60 is much cleaner and the volume and tone response is more even when changing from the 81 to the 60.

Bare Knuckle Warpig would be the one to go for if you want to stick with passive pickups, I have the alnico one and it's ace!

[xDamerx]

Thanks again guys for all the help, I've decided on the 81/60's! I've finally managed to get home from work, and I've the model Ibanez I have is the RGT42FM.

Here's a link to it if you are wanting to see it.

http://cachepe.zzounds.com/media/quality,85/brand,zzounds/RGT42FMDR-ec95b638a734a724810ed0d180494adc.jpg

Anyways, I have a couple questions now that I am going ahead with the new pickups. As you can see with my guitar, it only has one volume and one tone pot. How do I go about connecting both pickups to each pot using the solderless quick connect system they use with these pickups!? Or are the pots already designed for multi pickup use with the solderless design?

My other question was, I am wanting to change the toggle switch from 5 way to 3 way, as I never use the "inbetween" settings on the switch, basically only use the just-neck and just-bridge settings. I am wondering if you can tell me which switch is the one I am wanting. On the EMG page they have 2, there is a 3 way Tele and the 3 way Strat.

Thanks again!!

Damo

[HateEvent]

Anyways, I have a couple questions now that I am going ahead with the new pickups. As you can see with my guitar, it only has one volume and one tone pot. How do I go about connecting both pickups to each pot using the solderless quick connect system they use with these pickups!? Or are the pots already designed for multi pickup use with the solderless design?

My other question was, I am wanting to change the toggle switch from 5 way to 3 way, as I never use the "inbetween" settings on the switch, basically only use the just-neck and just-bridge settings. I am wondering if you can tell me which switch is the one I am wanting. On the EMG page they have 2, there is a 3 way Tele and the 3 way Strat.

Thanks again!!

Damo

The pots compared with the chosen configuration can be wired in different ways depending on requirements. You don't need to worry about the type of pots in that sense. All you need to do is get a logarithmic 25k pot and linear 25k pot (one for tone, one for volume). Making sure the rating and type is all you need to do

As for changing to a 3 way selector, best thing to do is just follow this diagram exactly when wiring:-

Following this, you WILL have the middle position sound, but can always change it to get rid of that if need be.

A 3 way Strat switch is what you want.

[fatboy]

James question!

whats your thought on low impedance pick-ups, Jeff Walters seems to swear by them

I made a list of what the perfect guitar would be for me. I am from the school where there are three areas that come together to make the ultimate player: songwriting' date=' rhythm guitar playing and lead playing. So, while we obviously couldnt make a guitar that wrote songs, the other two criteria had to be met. The picking of Hanneman/King of Slayer, Hetfield/Hammett of Metallica, Mustaine of Megadeth and Holt of Exodus were the inspiration for my rhythm guitar playing and picking style. These tight and clear picking styles have to be possible with my new guitar. Granted, a lot of this comes from how you hold the pick, thickness of pick, angle of attack, etc., but the guitar had to have the right combination of bridge, tailpiece, neck, and most importantly, pickups. Many guitar players, especially in the 1990s, thought that you needed super high-gain pickups to play metal and sound good. This could be true for a lot of tuned-down and new metal sounds, but for traditional heavy-metal-meets-thrash, this usually sounds bad. Most of the players in the 1980s that were known as the best would use more bluesy, warm and cleaner pickups, and then use their amplifier or a pedal to get the overdrive or distortion to suit their needs. Therefore, I had Gibson USA wind different pickups in the style of their earlier models, and I kept trying them until I found the ones that fit best. A lot of effort, knowledge and experience went into my new pickups, and they alone are worth checking out. I like less-gainy pickups and prefer to get the overdrive from my amps.[/quote']

[xDamerx]

Yea, I've got another question!

My RG has a long shaft input jack, with the 3 tabs on the top. So I unfortunatly can't use the input jack that came with the EMG's. What I'm wondering is, can I basically wire up the jack the same as it was with the old INF's, but use the extra tab for grounding the battery!? I have a feeling I can, but I thought I would ask before I went forth with it, as I have to solder that bit together! I emailed EMG asking the same thing, and all they sent back was a old kinda wiring diagram that didn't answer my question at all!

Thanks again!

[xDamerx]

PS-I think that made sense yea!?

[britheguy]

I know I'm a boring old fart, but I can't see past Wizard Pick Ups. Tell him what you want and he'll do it for you.

Electric Guitar Pickups, Strat pickups, Tele pickups, P90 pickups, Bass pickups

[The Sloth]

We should make a thread called 'ask James'