One-up Records

[Guest idol_wild]

Which horse are you referring to? It's well known that's why companies like play.com and amazon operate out of the channel islands.

I didn't even know they operated out of the Channel Islands. ?(

[Bigsby]

The Channel Islands and Fife:

The Courier - Work ready to begin on Amazon's Dunfermline distribution centre

[captain burrito]

It's just par for the course that they'd put it in Dunfermline.

[offramp]

I'm not.

The article posted actually clued me up a bit.

Me too.

Thanks for posting it f_d min.

[Stroopy121]

you can buy cds on the internets now?!

xx

[french_disko]

you can buy cds on the internets now?!

xx

So, what is your take on the abuse of LVCR?

[Stroopy121]

So, what is your take on the abuse of LVCR?

Wasn't that a radio station in one of the GTA games?

xx

[kevin avalanche]

Avalanche Edinburgh

Clearly I should know who idol_wild is but I don't.

Ah, good old Kev from Avalanche. He once gave me a lecture about how "bands operate as businesses and want to keep every penny for themselves, ignoring record shops because of greed".

It is bands/labels that tell me they are operating as a business (and therefore wanting to recoup their outlay on a release as quickly as possible) as the reason for selling as many copies as they can before giving them to shops. That is fine but it is then the shop's business decision whether they want to have the crumbs left after all the fans have bought the release already.

He piped down a little after I politely told him I had been stealing my flatmate's food for a week because I couldn't afford to buy food, after playing shows in Europe and then Glastonbury completely wiped me out of any cash. He actually thinks bands make profits.

Sorry still not getting it. Those who know me know "piping down" is never really going to happen

I then also discovered that one of the albums mentioned in his post that he agreed to sell in the shop, was subject to a 40% cut, which went into his pocket. The label required a 40% cut to cover it's costs, leaving the band with 20% of any profits the album happened to make. I'd like to add that Avalanche, from what I understand, took 40% of each sale full stop. The band only got a cut of any actual profit made. Which was minimal. So in the end, I suspect Avalanche took 4 from each sale of that album, and the band themselves probably got less than a pound. Is that balance correct?

We used to take 20% and then 25% of the sale price but given that we have to pay the VAT on the sale we weren't making any money and as we dedicated even more time to selling local bands the cost of the time spent with a customer recommending things meant we were probably losing money. It was people like Matthew from Song by Toad that suggested we should stop charging "mate's rates" and charge the same as other shops. With many artists generally telling me they have spent little on recording costs if we sell a CD for 7.99 and give them 5 after the manufacturing cost of about 1.25 there is plenty of scope for them to make money. Even more if they get 6 for a 9.99 sale. We certainly make less than the artists we deal with directly. Deals between an artist and a label are up to them obviously.

Avalanche in Edinburgh is another classic example of an independent record shop going downhill, and it reeks of desperation - almost directly blaming bands for its downfall. Avalanche and One Up are in the same situation, but at least One Up isn't publically resorting to a blame culture. Every time I have been in Avalanche and have had to talk to Kev, he's tried to give me the same lecture. It's almost has if he has it rehearsed.

We aren't blaming bands at all but they can't have the best of both worlds. If they want us to support their album then we will but not just when they choose to give it to us. Bands now regularly have an album launch before the album is officially released and then ask if they can play an in-store to promote the album by which time those who come along will have bought the album already. Again once online sales have dried up we are asked if we can promote it to the many visitors we get to the shop. Many of the bigger bands that relied on shops for their support in the early days now say they see no reason to support retail anymore. It is reassuring that bands like Kid Canaveral and Ballboy take a different view to Radiohead and Muse.

If I just had 4 for every Withered Hand, Meursault, Saint Jude's Infirmary etc album I'd sold .....................

[Jeanette]

The above post is really confusing! :-S

[Oedo 808]

The above post is really confusing! :-S

I didn't read it, but I enjoyed the colours

[Graeme]

I didn't read it, but I enjoyed the colours

Kevin has clearly gone to a lot of effort to respond to this! If he could spend a little of that effort replying to emails he might actually get a bit more business, just a little, but hey..these days!

And better lets not tell him who Idol wild is!

[FOX]

The above post is really confusing! :-S

It refers to a previous post in this thread (or the HMV one maybe?), idol_wild's words in black, Kevin out of that Avalanche place's in red.

...Still, 'fusing.

[Jeanette]

It refers to a previous post in this thread (or the HMV one maybe?), idol_wild's words in black, Kevin out of that Avalanche place's in red.

...Still, 'fusing.

Ah. That clears things up a bit. If only quotes were used instead!!

[captain burrito]

It'd have been more useful if the villainous Red Texter PM'd our hero, The WIld Idol, and communicated any problem he had that way instead of allowing the mostly good citizens of Aberdeenmusica being privvy to what is probably gonna turn into anther War of the Flame.

[Guest idol_wild]

It'd have been more useful if the villainous Red Texter PM'd our hero, The WIld Idol, and communicated any problem he had that way instead of allowing the mostly good citizens of Aberdeenmusica being privvy to what is probably gonna turn into anther War of the Flame.

There's going to be absolutely no war whatsoever; I think we're both too old for that. He's said his peice as a response in an open, public forum, which is discussing independent record shops.

For the record, his response was almost the exact speech he dished out to me personally in the first place...and to several others who have tried to trade/deal with him.

There is quite clearly still a blame being attached to musicians and artists. Time would be better expended looking for solutions to problems facing independent record shops - not cultivating a blame culture and attacking the bands themselves for not supporting record shops (Are bands obliged to 'support' record shops? Are bands even in a position to 'support' record shops?). Record shops have to remember that they exist in the first place because music exists. Not the other way around.

[FOX]

There's going to be absolutely no war whatsoever; I think we're both too old for that. He's said his peice as a response in an open, public forum, which is discussing independent record shops.

For the record, his response was almost the exact speech he dished out to me personally in the first place...and to several others who have tried to trade/deal with him.

There is quite clearly still a blame being attached to musicians and artists. Time would be better expended looking for solutions to problems facing independent record shops - not cultivating a blame culture and attacking the bands themselves for not supporting record shops (Are bands obliged to 'support' record shops? Are bands even in a position to 'support' record shops?). Record shops have to remember that they exist in the first place because music exists. Not the other way around.

Very true.

Still: fight, fight, fight...

[Monster Zero]

The UK record buying public have been getting fleeced for years in terms of pricing, the shops don't like it that the public can now gain access to cheaper pricing via t'internet i Feel, blame everyone else, find no sensible solution. Maybe the margins just ain't there.

I'm not defending the tax loophole scenario but if I want to get a cheaper 2nd hand deal via Amazon Marketplace rather than use One Up's peculiar 2nd hand pricing strategy then I sure as hell will if it saves me some bucks. I have had their pricing of 2nd hand CD's explained to me, and while it kind of makes sense on a basic level, paying over 7 pounds for a 2nd hand CD sticks in my craw. I have done it on occasion if it's something that has been particularly elusive but more often than not I just let it go (and quite often pick it up anyway once it has sat on the shelf for a while and ended up being reduced!).

Avalanche to their credit had a 2nd hand pricing strategy that led to much spending on my visits. Sadly of late their categorising had become a bit lazy and jumbled and led to me not being arsed trying to look through a million 3.99 sections.

[framheim]

There's going to be absolutely no war whatsoever; I think we're both too old for that. He's said his peice as a response in an open, public forum, which is discussing independent record shops.

For the record, his response was almost the exact speech he dished out to me personally in the first place...and to several others who have tried to trade/deal with him.

There is quite clearly still a blame being attached to musicians and artists. Time would be better expended looking for solutions to problems facing independent record shops - not cultivating a blame culture and attacking the bands themselves for not supporting record shops (Are bands obliged to 'support' record shops? Are bands even in a position to 'support' record shops?). Record shops have to remember that they exist in the first place because music exists. Not the other way around.

this is the internet, this post does not belong on the grounds that it is too sensible, mature and true.

where's the huge letters and swearing? pfft.

[Soda Jerk]

The UK record buying public have been getting fleeced for years in terms of pricing, the shops don't like it that the public can now gain access to cheaper pricing via t'internet i Feel, blame everyone else, find no sensible solution. Maybe the margins just ain't there.

I'm not defending the tax loophole scenario but if I want to get a cheaper 2nd hand deal via Amazon Marketplace rather than use One Up's peculiar 2nd hand pricing strategy then I sure as hell will if it saves me some bucks. I have had their pricing of 2nd hand CD's explained to me, and while it kind of makes sense on a basic level, paying over 7 pounds for a 2nd hand CD sticks in my craw. I have done it on occasion if it's something that has been particularly elusive but more often than not I just let it go (and quite often pick it up anyway once it has sat on the shelf for a while and ended up being reduced!).

Avalanche to their credit had a 2nd hand pricing strategy that led to much spending on my visits. Sadly of late their categorising had become a bit lazy and jumbled and led to me not being arsed trying to look through a million 3.99 sections.

What is the one up pricing strategy? Their 2nd hand section prices make no sense. Somehow it always seems to be things I want that cost 6 or 7 quid. Though I did get Quicksand - Slip for 2.

It's very un-idealistic, but when you can get 2nd hand CD's for the price of a stamp on Amazon Marketplace, it makes paying over the odds for 2nd hand CD's completely redundant.

[Monster Zero]

What is the one up pricing strategy? Their 2nd hand section prices make no sense. Somehow it always seems to be things I want that cost 6 or 7 quid. Though I did get Quicksand - Slip for 2.

It's very un-idealistic, but when you can get 2nd hand CD's for the price of a stamp on Amazon Marketplace, it makes paying over the odds for 2nd hand CD's completely redundant.

Look up typical price new and price 2nd hand accordingly but this doesn't seem to be consistent. I would say that in some cases rarity has been considered but not always, I've got some hard to find stuff cheap as fuck and seen stuff that isn't that hard to get 7 quid and above. If it's 5 quid and under I will rarely pause as with 1 odd postage from Amazon that's usually about right, unless it's some bollocks that only I would ever want that goes for 1p or something.

[kevin avalanche]

I'm definitely too old. Agree to differ I think !

[Guest idol_wild]

I'm definitely too old. Agree to differ I think !

Absolutely fine by me.

[kevin avalanche]

Avalanche to their credit had a 2nd hand pricing strategy that led to much spending on my visits. Sadly of late their categorising had become a bit lazy and jumbled and led to me not being arsed trying to look through a million 3.99 sections.

[quikblade]

Going back to the start of the thread, the graph just seems to me to be in sync with the recession. People simply cant afford the luxuries which essentially music is, when they have to make sure they can eat properly. So its not just the music industry thats fucked, its the economy in general. I actually wonder sometimes if we will ever properly recover a stable economy.