What's your recording setup and method?

[myeggsareboiled]

Hi Rick

Looks like a nice recording space you have there. I like that you're able to do acoustic drums too.

Thanks! I've only recently moved there, and it's the first time I've had space to set up all my music gubbins in one room, so I'm still at the 'kid in a sweetie shop' stage!

[Chris]

A general question for everyone - when recording vocals do you prefer to do the whole song in one take or do each section seperately?

I've started just punching in and out of a track, doing each verse or chorus in it's own section. I've found it's much quicker and easier to punch out, remove the bit I've just fucked up, click back to just before the section and punch back in to retry it (hopefully in tune this time) instead of scrapping the whole song because I fluffed one line at the end of the last verse.

[Stroopy121]

A general question for everyone - when recording vocals do you prefer to do the whole song in one take or do each section seperately?

I've started just punching in and out of a track, doing each verse or chorus in it's own section. I've found it's much quicker and easier to punch out, remove the bit I've just fucked up, click back to just before the section and punch back in to retry it (hopefully in tune this time) instead of scrapping the whole song because I fluffed one line at the end of the last verse.

Absolutely in sections. Retake a whole song because of one botched lyric or wrong note? No chance!

I don't think I've ever sang a whole song without putting a note out of place in my life!

xx

[Jeid]

I usually get vocalists to sing the song all the way through first time. Gets them into the swing of things and lets me hear all the vocals. Then I go back and do it all section by section, line by line if need be.

[Adam Easy Wishes]

I think it depends. If time and money are no object in a studio I would definitely choose to do it from start to finish every time, especially if the lyrics have a story that need to be told. It lets you deal with everything in context and get the right sentiment and style for that particular part.

For demo purposes I wouldn't really have a problem dropping it at verses/choruses, but even doing backing vocals on a 'proper' recording I like to hear the song from start to finish rather.

[Chris]

I usually get vocalists to sing the song all the way through first time. Gets them into the swing of things and lets me hear all the vocals. Then I go back and do it all section by section, line by line if need be.

That's a good point. A rough guide vocal would also be useful for adding extra guitar parts or other instrumentation if I got fed up trying to sing in tune.

[Stroopy121]

I tend to give it a bash once or twice start to finish to identify the problem areas (sometimes there are more than others) then jsut go back and clean them up.

That or do a few different takes of the song start to finish and take the best sections as the final track.

I tend to find that even if my lyrics tell a story it's fairly easy to get into the swing of it picking up half way through, although sometimes it will take a few tries to get it sounding how I want.

xx

[Guest droid]

Comping is another great way,record about a dozen tracks and compile a take of the bits you like the best.

[Adam Easy Wishes]

Comping is another great way,record about a dozen tracks and compile a take of the bits you like the best.

Agreed - this is what I was getting at too.

Didn't mean to discard the tracks, just if you weren't happy that you did it flawlessly, go back to the start and do it again and then pick the best parts.

[Stroopy121]

Agreed - this is what I was getting at too.

Didn't mean to discard the tracks, just if you weren't happy that you did it flawlessly, go back to the start and do it again and then pick the best parts.

I do like going with this approach where I can but if I keep fucking the same section I'll tend to just keep doing that line/verse/whatever until I nail it. Maybe even do a couple of full takes afterwards too and then see what's best. Basically I just do everything a thousand times and take the best of it all if I can, but it's a time consuming process and if you're paying per hour then I prefer to just do one or two takes, punch in and fix any glaring errors and if we get through all the material that we hoped to get done then go back and tweak some of the more minor errors.

xx

[Frosty Jack]

Agreed - this is what I was getting at too.

Didn't mean to discard the tracks, just if you weren't happy that you did it flawlessly, go back to the start and do it again and then pick the best parts.

I'd go with this - if you go back and try to slot in one line, chances are it could always sound like an independent single line stuck in the middle, and the expression and sentiment won't flow with the rest of the verse. But sing the whole verse a couple of times and you can then go back and pick out the line you need.

We've been in Capt Toms a lot recently working with Paul, and usually do a few complete takes of everything, mistakes and all. You'll rarely make a mistake in exactly the same place every time, so a bit of copy/paste and you're sorted. And even if we get a decent vocal take, we'll always do a couple more in case we get something unexpectedly brilliant we can drop in. Needless to say doesn't just go for vocals.

[Chris]

I haven't figured out how to copy and paste from within a take on Reaper, it doesn't have a built in WAV editor so I think it might be missing that functionality. But punching in and out of the track and having a couple of different vocal tracks setup so I can swap between takes and move them around easily seems to be a good substitute for copy and paste.

It also has the ability to record multiple takes on one track, but I haven't used that much so not sure if that's a better alternative to setting up a couple of seperate tracks.

[Bigsby]

I like to record in one go and then go back and fix little bits if need be.

[Alan Cynic]

Me too....usually by doing a second vocal and cross-fading between tracks at the appropriate points.

[Jeid]

If you've got a good vocalist then comping is a great way to do stuff. I had a girl with a great voice doing a couple of acoustic songs, she was a great singer, none of this auto tune carry on, and we just did each part of the song twice and picked out what worked best for the song. If she/we thought she could deliver a line better, she went back and did it again.

Depends on the singer/time, as Adam pointed out. If you've got loads of time and the singer is good enough to deliver a consistent performance, go for it. If you've not got loads of time, perhaps doing verse by verse is the best way.

I recorded myself singing a Foo Fighters song not so long ago (I'm a fuckin horrible singer) but I did each verse at a time, dropped in for bits I thought I could get better and I ended up getting a better performance. It made me really concentrate on the bits I was really shit at.

I ended up with this, there's some tuning on this, but not that much

HOME by jeid on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

[Guest droid]

All the aforementioned methods are good.

The key thing is to find out what works for you and go with that !

[Guest idol_wild]

If you've got a good vocalist then comping is a great way to do stuff. I had a girl with a great voice doing a couple of acoustic songs, she was a great singer, none of this auto tune carry on, and we just did each part of the song twice and picked out what worked best for the song. If she/we thought she could deliver a line better, she went back and did it again.

Out of interest, do you find you have to use auto tune a lot when recording vocals? Or are most singers you work with capable of singing? I'd like to know how many people actually utilise this feature. I initially thought pretty much nobody did...ever...but it's becoming apparent that it's increasingly common for vocalists to use auto tune when recording vocals.

[Stroopy121]

Out of interest, do you find you have to use auto tune a lot when recording vocals? Or are most singers you work with capable of singing? I'd like to know how many people actually utilise this feature. I initially thought pretty much nobody did...ever...but it's becoming apparent that it's increasingly common for vocalists to use auto tune when recording vocals.

Last time I was in studio I was having a shit day of it recording vocals, kept putting blips in here and there - one line in particular I just couldn't hit a certain couple of notes. Rather than waste hours of studio time I just got the autotune treatment and smoothed out the wrinkles and I don't see any harm in it. That said, I do feel like I copped out and in retrospect I'd rather I stuck with it and got it right. It takes something away from the sense of achievement IMO.

All in all it's a handy wee ace in the hole to pull out when you're tight for time, but it's far from idea..

xx

[Jeid]

Out of interest, do you find you have to use auto tune a lot when recording vocals? Or are most singers you work with capable of singing? I'd like to know how many people actually utilise this feature. I initially thought pretty much nobody did...ever...but it's becoming apparent that it's increasingly common for vocalists to use auto tune when recording vocals.

Read an interview with any producer/audio engineer and if the question of autotune comes up, most of the time they say it's used. I think most stuff has autotune on it these days. I still try and get vocalists to sing as correctly as they can. I find if they go sharp, it's a lot better than going flat.

If they're going flat, the headphones are usually too loud and they can't hear themselves properly.

I use Autotune. Vocals are what most people focus on, especially the non-musicians, so they need to sound the best. I used to overdo autotuning, but I use it a bit less than I used to, that's for sure. At the end of the day, if a singer can't sing, then there's not much autotune can really do for them, especially if they want it to sound real. If you can sing and you're ill/having trouble with a line/having an off day, I see no harm in using it. It's much the same as when a drummer does a great take but hits a rim on a tom hit or goes out of time on a section, it can be fixed. Why would you spend another 3 hours of possible frustration to get that one bit perfect when the rest of the song was great?

I don't see Autotune as cheating, I see it as a handy tool that can fix a simple problem quickly. If you can use it well, it's great, if you don't have a clue what you're doing with it... it's a fuckin write off.

[Guest idol_wild]

Read an interview with any producer/audio engineer and if the question of autotune comes up, most of the time they say it's used. I think most stuff has autotune on it these days. I still try and get vocalists to sing as correctly as they can. I find if they go sharp, it's a lot better than going flat.

If they're going flat, the headphones are usually too loud and they can't hear themselves properly.

I use Autotune. Vocals are what most people focus on, especially the non-musicians, so they need to sound the best. I used to overdo autotuning, but I use it a bit less than I used to, that's for sure. At the end of the day, if a singer can't sing, then there's not much autotune can really do for them, especially if they want it to sound real. If you can sing and you're ill/having trouble with a line/having an off day, I see no harm in using it. It's much the same as when a drummer does a great take but hits a rim on a tom hit or goes out of time on a section, it can be fixed. Why would you spend another 3 hours of possible frustration to get that one bit perfect when the rest of the song was great?

I don't see Autotune as cheating, I see it as a handy tool that can fix a simple problem quickly. If you can use it well, it's great, if you don't have a clue what you're doing with it... it's a fuckin write off.

Good post. I've seen a few people on here, whose opinions I respect (yours very much with regards to audio recording especially), defend the use of auto tune very well. Personally, it's something I never even consider. It may come down to the fact I like little oddities in vocal performances, as it's more natural and adds charm and personality to a song. Well, in certain branches of music, anyway. I obviously understand that most music is almost obliged to have perfectly in-tune and in-time everything. Just a personal preference, I guess.

I should probably consider auto tune, because my vocals are gash. But the one time I tried it, my vocal was so out of tune that the auto tune aligned it with a completely different key. LOL. Fail.

[Jeid]

Good post. I've seen a few people on here, whose opinions I respect (yours very much with regards to audio recording especially), defend the use of auto tune very well. Personally, it's something I never even consider. It may come down to the fact I like little oddities in vocal performances, as it's more natural and adds charm and personality to a song. Well, in certain branches of music, anyway. I obviously understand that most music is almost obliged to have perfectly in-tune and in-time everything. Just a personal preference, I guess.

I should probably consider auto tune, because my vocals are gash. But the one time I tried it, my vocal was so out of tune that the auto tune aligned it with a completely different key. LOL. Fail.

Thanks very much man, I spend a lot of time reading and trying to learn stuff, so I appreciate that. I definitely agree with what you're saying about oddities. Sometimes stuff that isn't perfect works the best, I like character in things as well. Some stuff doesn't suit being perfectly in time and pitch perfect, but likewise, not everything suits being out of time and tune. There's a line... it's a fine line, but it's there.

As for your autotune, there's a graphical mode and an auto mode, use the graphical mode, gives you a lot more control over your tuning. It takes longer, but you can just fix one word in a whole phrase instead of tuning a whole vocal take.

Upi have pretty much summed up what i have never been able to say. Spot on in fact, exactly how i feel about it. It's subjective as well though, some musicians might suit there vocals to not sound clean and polished and have a rough sound to them. For the most part though, what autotune was made for was to fix small blips to save you rerecording everything. I consider it cheating when people use it as an effect by turning all the parameters to ten. Everyone knows it's just because they can't sing.

I consider it cheating when a vocalist sings like shit and expects the engineer/producer to fix it

I also hate the autotune "effect" that bands are using.

See this video for reference!

Wait for the bass player to sing

[Stroopy121]

So I've decided to try a new approach for the sake of a demo.

I'm gonna write up a drum part in Guitar Pro, export it as a MIDI into Reaper, trigger it using as 'real' sounding drums as I can find and then record guitar bass and vocals over this.

My question: I've never tried MIDI triggering before; what software do I need other than just GP and reaper? I'm reading bits and pieces about VSTs, no idea what these are and while I intend to do some proper homework on it after work today I'm hoping someone can give me a bit on an idiots guide to what a VST is and how to plonk a MIDI track into reaper and apply a VST to it..

Also, I'll probably (?) have to play with cymbal sounds to get the ringing out and so on sounding as natural as possible.. Is this one of those 'not for a n00b' tasks or should it be fairly doable with a bit of time and perseverance?

Finally, with live guitars, bass and vocals recorded over this triggered MIDI drum track; how 'real' sounding a demo do you think is feasible? On a scale of 1-10 say, with 10 being indistinguishable from a real live recording and 1 being a normal MIDI track.

xx

[Jeid]

You'll need something like Addictive Drums, EZ Drummer/Superior Drummer, Steven Slate Drums to make your midi file sound like a decent drum kit.

Look them up. I don't have a VST based recording setup, so I'm unsure if there are free options available.

Real sounding drums are doable with this method(note the velocities to get it to sound a bit more real). I'm working on a mix just now using midi drums. Not finished it yet, but I'm getting there, but I think these drums sound quite real.

RONIXISM by jeid on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

[Jaaakkkeee]

Instead of a vst why not try and find sample packs of drum hits? Some really great sounding stuff there that you can (I assume, I use ableton) make a drum kit midi instrument out of and import your midi tracks and let it play away......

[Stroopy121]

You'll need something like Addictive Drums, EZ Drummer/Superior Drummer, Steven Slate Drums to make your midi file sound like a decent drum kit.

Look them up. I don't have a VST based recording setup, so I'm unsure if there are free options available.

Real sounding drums are doable with this method(note the velocities to get it to sound a bit more real). I'm working on a mix just now using midi drums. Not finished it yet, but I'm getting there, but I think these drums sound quite real.

RONIXISM by jeid on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Those sound awesome!

How exactly did you make those? I'm completely green when it comes to these things and can't find a decent retards guide for the life of me!

xx