Bands wanted for MUSA's Gig Night

[MUSA]

Thank you for your input. x

[Stroopy121]

Thank you for your input. x

That's what she said...

I'm so lonely...

[FOX]

Just read through the end of this thread, and my heart sank a little.

I'm a fairly young (well, let's say I can't accept payments of beer) singer-songwriter and I haven't got any idea how people go about finding gigs, to be honest with you.

I saw this, and, naturally, leapt at it. I'm happy just to be playing, the offer of a 45-minute slot, even supporting at a restaurant on a Sunday for nothing, is brilliant for me.

If anyone could give me pointers on how to get playing locally then by all means throw them at me, but this is a great opportunity for me and for most people in my situation, I'd wager.

[FOX]

Indeed, we (The Malpaso Gang, Aberdeen's premier Country band) are playing Musa on Sunday as our debut gig. As our steel player Son Henry puts it, "a gig is worth ten rehearsals".

But we are also playing Musa in January on a Saturday night for a fee, so we are of course happy to help get their Sunday night thing going.

Oh, I'll be the support if it's this Sunday.

[Guest idol_wild]

Just read through the end of this thread, and my heart sank a little.

I'm a fairly young (well, let's say I can't accept payments of beer) singer-songwriter and I haven't got any idea how people go about finding gigs, to be honest with you.

I saw this, and, naturally, leapt at it. I'm happy just to be playing, the offer of a 45-minute slot, even supporting at a restaurant on a Sunday for nothing, is brilliant for me.

If anyone could give me pointers on how to get playing locally then by all means throw them at me, but this is a great opportunity for me and for most people in my situation, I'd wager.

Just make yourself known to all the local venues, explain your age situation, and introduce yourself with a link to your music or a physical CD with your music on it. Tell them you're available for gigs and you'd consider any slots they may have. Local venues and promoters seem to always be looking for acts to play, and bands seem to always be looking for gigs to play, so the two just need to meet in the middle.

Just don't be shy, I guess - make yourself known and you'll get gigs.

[FOX]

Just make yourself known to all the local venues, explain your age situation, and introduce yourself with a link to your music or a physical CD with your music on it. Tell them you're available for gigs and you'd consider any slots they may have. Local venues and promoters seem to always be looking for acts to play, and bands seem to always be looking for gigs to play, so the two just need to meet in the middle.

Just don't be shy, I guess - make yourself known and you'll get gigs.

Many thanks for the tips mate, will try and get some stuff recorded

I don't however get "make yourself known" - I assume it's not a case of walking in and chapping on a desk and just spewing "Hey, I'm Foxhunting" like a 70s TV presenter. Or maybe it is?

[Guest idol_wild]

I don't however get "make yourself known" - I assume it's not a case of walking in and chapping on a desk and just spewing "Hey, I'm Foxhunting" like a 70s TV presenter. Or maybe it is?

It kind of is really. On the Resources tab at the top of this page, click and scroll down to the Venues Map option and check out the venues, what sort of gigs they put on, and contact them via email, telephone, or in person (just go down one night when a gig is on just after doors open and ask to speak to someone who does the booking - leave your phone number with them if nobody is available who can speak about booking), describe what sort of stuff you do and try to provide them with a song or two. Just explain that you're available for gigs.

Aside from that, check the relevant sections on this website (Gigs & Event Announcements / Networking) and see who is posting about gigs they are putting on, find out if it's stuff you'd be suited to, and drop them a little message declaring your availability for future shows.

Also, and most importantly, go to gigs and see other bands, speak to people (promoters, bands) and tell them you'd like to play shows and you'd appreciate it if they kept you in mind if anything suitable came up.

There's a little work to be done to find out the finer points (contact details, etc), but the time dedicated to it will be worthwhile.

Do you have a link to your music or details about your music to post here? Sling it up!

[Bigsby]

Just read through the end of this thread, and my heart sank a little.

I'm a fairly young (well, let's say I can't accept payments of beer) singer-songwriter and I haven't got any idea how people go about finding gigs, to be honest with you.

I saw this, and, naturally, leapt at it. I'm happy just to be playing, the offer of a 45-minute slot, even supporting at a restaurant on a Sunday for nothing, is brilliant for me.

If anyone could give me pointers on how to get playing locally then by all means throw them at me, but this is a great opportunity for me and for most people in my situation, I'd wager.

Don't let the haters in this thread put you off, the members of our band are all over 30 with literally thousands of live performances notched up between us and to paraphrase that dude on The Apprentice we were onto this gig like a tramp on chips.

A gig is a gig, it will be a great learning experience for you, you WILL make mistakes (so will we) but you'll learn from them. You learn so much more gigging than playing in your bedroom. And now your name is out there, which it wouldn't have been if you had subscriped to this staunch "I want paid" attitude.

[diarmaid]

Beer is braw.

[FOX]

Don't let the haters in this thread put you off, the members of our band are all over 30 with literally thousands of live performances notched up between us and to paraphrase that dude on The Apprentice we were onto this gig like a tramp on chips.

A gig is a gig, it will be a great learning experience for you, you WILL make mistakes (so will we) but you'll learn from them. You learn so much more gigging than playing in your bedroom. And now your name is out there, which it wouldn't have been if you had subscriped to this staunch "I want paid" attitude.

Exactly. How much does it cost me to play a 45-minute set? Maybe a packet of new strings (plus the guitar and cable), but other than that, essentially nothing.

So basically, it's a case of money v experience. Personally, experience wins every time.

Anyway, even the smallest amount of exposure I'd take over a tenner.

[Bigsby]

Anyway, even the smallest amount of exposure I'd take over a tenner.

I'll pay you a tenner to expose yourself. Everyone's a winner.

[MUSA]

Looking forward to having you play, Fox

[diarmaid]

E-mail sent.

[Guest Bob Double Jack]

great to see people supporting a new venture on ab music and not diving straight in and beating it down

[Alan Badge]

Great to see another venue wanting live music. Ive had a crap year trying to get gigs through no fault of my own or any of my bands. We're punctual bring our own gear go on when told, be there for soundcheck when told and share our gear if the other bands want too.

The venue we've played in for years and usually brought a good crowd along would'nt entertain us with a gig and at points spoke to me in a way i could've quite happily commited murder.

So i'd happily play for beer and the chance of a gig. Got to say Son Henry's quote is a keeper fucking brilliant " A gig is worth 10 rehearsals" im nicking that one! Also so refreshing to hear a young musicians fresh attitutude in just wanting to play for the experience.

Im all in favour of new venue's in The Deen and would like to support them and if it means low or no payment to start with so be it. I'd rather deal with decent people who treat you properly than big venues who treat you like shit!

[Oedo 808]

I often find it curious when words like 'business' and 'money' are trotted out as some sort of metaphorical antithesis to art; the former concepts imbued with all that is evil in the universe, the latter all that is pure. The suggestion seems to be that any who dare sully the sanctity of art with these heinous forces cannot care for their art at all. Sadly, gigging musicians rarely fall under auspices of Creative Scotland making it more difficult for them to keep their art so pure and ungrubbied by the evil hands of capitalism.

All art is paid for by someone. Who pays for yours?

[Guest Bob Double Jack]

The venue we've played in for years and usually brought a good crowd along would'nt entertain us with a gig and at points spoke to me in a way i could've quite happily commited murder.

So i'd happily play for beer and the chance of a gig. Got to say Son Henry's quote is a keeper fucking brilliant " A gig is worth 10 rehearsals" im nicking that one! Also so refreshing to hear a young musicians fresh attitutude in just wanting to play for the experience.

Im all in favour of new venue's in The Deen and would like to support them and if it means low or no payment to start with so be it. I'd rather deal with decent people who treat you properly than big venues who treat you like shit!

the same happened to us a few years back, and it's difficult to get pub owners to give you a chance sometimes, but be persistent and don't give up, thats what I say. We've just had our best year ever for gigs and, though we're doing covers, I'm enjoying gigging now more than I ever have - no pressure, great fun, and a great bunch of guys I have the pleasure of being in a band with. It got to the point where I refused to give up a lot of my time for very little return. I know this goes against a lot of people on this boards views, and the abuse cover bands take on here is at times pretty appalling. But everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

We did an album years ago, had great fun promoting it, great fun playing some pretty tasty support gigs with Lizzy, Graham Bonnet, Girlschool and Blaze Bayley - then 30 approached and we all got married / kids, and it was time to move into the real world and try and make some extra cash to put into my son's inheritance from being pretty decent musicians.

Good on Musa, and also the Tilted Wig has been revitalised since they started mixing up the types of bands that play there.

[Christy]

I often find it curious when words like 'business' and 'money' are trotted out as some sort of metaphorical antithesis to art; the former concepts imbued with all that is evil in the universe, the latter all that is pure. The suggestion seems to be that any who dare sully the sanctity of art with these heinous forces cannot care for their art at all. Sadly, gigging musicians rarely fall under auspices of Creative Scotland making it more difficult for them to keep their art so pure and ungrubbied by the evil hands of capitalism.

All art is paid for by someone. Who pays for yours?

Been smoking anything, Bob? I see lots of big words!

My $0.02. bands should be paid for their performance. However, Im playing MUSA next month with Bellocs Bar, and I dare say I will survive if money aint forthcoming.

[Alkaline]

Honestly, some of the attitudes in this thread really sadden me. I've never cared if i've been paid for a gig and thankfully i've always been in bands where the individuals i've played with have felt the same. I'll quite happily take money if it's offered or is part of the "deal", but if it isn't i'm not going to whinge like a schoolgirl with a skinned knee.

When i started out in a band all i wanted to do was play and experience what it was like to have people enjoy the music that me and my friends/bandmates had made. When was that part taken out of music? I still feel like that and in all honesty it's the main reason why i'm not in an active band in Aberdeen at the moment as i feel like there is a large group of egotistical, shallow and talentless people on the "scene" at the moment whos attitudes actually ruin local music for me.

I hope the MUSA thing is a success.

[diarmaid]

MUSA had me at Baby Grand Piano.

[Adam Easy Wishes]

Honestly, some of the attitudes in this thread really sadden me. I've never cared if i've been paid for a gig and thankfully i've always been in bands where the individuals i've played with have felt the same. I'll quite happily take money if it's offered or is part of the "deal", but if it isn't i'm not going to whinge like a schoolgirl with a skinned knee.

When i started out in a band all i wanted to do was play and experience what it was like to have people enjoy the music that me and my friends/bandmates had made. When was that part taken out of music? I still feel like that and in all honesty it's the main reason why i'm not in an active band in Aberdeen at the moment as i feel like there is a large group of egotistical, shallow and talentless people on the "scene" at the moment whos attitudes actually ruin local music for me.

I hope the MUSA thing is a success.

Don't get me wrong, I too hope that the evening is a success, and I understand that the night/payment/whatever is what it is.

But to be honest, notwithstanding this MUSA situation, can you not see the other side of the coin?

Yes, music is brilliant and hell, I've played hundreds of gigs for free in various bands and enjoyed every one as much as the next (well, perhaps not true, but the PaymentFactor has never played a part in my enjoyment of playing live). What it really is, is a matter of principle. Why should a promoter or venue seek to make money off a band's 'enjoyment of playing live' without offering them some kind of payment?

[Alkaline]

Don't get me wrong, I too hope that the evening is a success, and I understand that the night/payment/whatever is what it is.

But to be honest, notwithstanding this MUSA situation, can you not see the other side of the coin?

Yes, music is brilliant and hell, I've played hundreds of gigs for free in various bands and enjoyed every one as much as the next (well, perhaps not true, but the PaymentFactor has never played a part in my enjoyment of playing live). What it really is, is a matter of principle. Why should a promoter or venue seek to make money off a band's 'enjoyment of playing live' without offering them some kind of payment?

I do see what you're saying but it's not as clear cut as that as far as i can see. Businesses are run in different ways, some more successful than others, some with better ideas of morality than others but they're still businesses and these are tough times. What's wrong with chalking up experience and increasing the exposure of your material. Surely that's payment in itself? If you've stuck at it, burned a CD-R or whatever bands do now and 10 people at your next gig buy it because they saw you at that shitty gig you played for free and kept an eye out for you and came to your next gig, isn't that enough?

What sort of money do people expect for gigs these days anyway? I was happy if a promoter shot any of the bands i've been in 30 if it was a local gig but that doesn't go that far really so i only ever viewed it as a bonus. Playing out of town is completely different though and as long as the promoter helps a band cover costs i think that's alright. At the very worst a free meal and a bed for the night is better than nothing.

I used to love going to gigs in Aberdeen and meeting new people but i really don't feel the same about it anymore. Maybe i'm just jaded or expect too much of the modern "band" but i really don't like a lot of the attitudes i see now. It sucks the life and enjoyment out of music for me.

[Guest idol_wild]

I don't think anyone who plays music genuinely expects to make any profit from performing or releasing these days - and that goes quite high up the ladder to bands who regularly tour and get near capacity crowds in every town they play. I know such a band who up until quite recently had to claim dole money simply to survive, because they didn't make a jot from constantly touring the UK, Europe, and the States; or even selling records until recently. And this is a band who have essentially had to be full-time for several years now.

I think what most people are getting at when they advocate payment for artists at all levels is the fact that most people/venues who book bands to perform are not booking them because they genuinely like them (otherwise they wouldn't need to advertise for bands to play their nights; they'd actively approach bands they like or who fit into certain ideas for bills they have) - they book them because they have live music on that particular night and they want to make a profit in the hope these bands pull crowds. The reason I'm normally sceptical towards this approach is because it's very very rare that you see some of these bookers/venues actually promote the bands they have booked to the extent they deserve. The hope is that these new musicians will have some friends come along with pretty deep wallets. I'm not levelling this at Musa at all, in fact I have already identified and conceded that most of what I have said in this thread doesn't relate to the original point of the thread and I know I'm at least partly responsible for veering the thread hideously off topic.

When I appeal for musicians to get paid, it's to cover the individual costs related to playing that show. Even at a local level, that involves getting gear to the venue, potential time off work to make soundcheck, and, if gigging relatively regularly, depreciation of equipment (I'm aware this is minimal, but regular gigging musicians all incur gear depreciation, and even maintainance, such as strings, plectrums, etc). This needn't be a lot - it could even be a token gesture of a tenner at local level. It is, as Adam suggested, a matter of principle. Most venues and bookers when making a booking are doing it in the hope they make money out of it. So if that's the case, why shouldn't the musicians, who are playing and providing the very essence of what a night of live music is about, receive a relative sum for their part in proceedings?

I have played many many gigs for free in my time, and would still happily consider doing so if the gig was worthwhile or for charity, but if playing a show is at my own personal expense, yet someone else was looking to make a profit from it, I'd be inclined to say no. That's not to say it's all about money at all - I'm just not in a position to play a gig at my own expense anymore; ironically because my involvement in music put me in that situation in the first place. It's just not sustainable, and I had to decline some gig offers because to play the show would have cost me money in the end. Sure, that's in relation to my own personal circumstances, but I know for a fact I'm not the only musician at my exceptionally low level who shares those circumstances.

As I have already said, this has veered away from the initial point of the thread. But this thread made me a bit sick in the mouth when I was being referred to as "sad" for advocating payment for musicians. I felt that was a bit unfair, given that music has never been about profit for me. My point is merely encouraging sustainability for musicians.

And just because not every musician or band are able to roll up and play gigs for no money purely to "enjoy the experience of playing with, and to, friends", it doesn't mean they get any less of a thrill out of doing it. It's just a bit rum to assume everyone is in such a liberated position to be able to do that.

But like I say, this thread has grown a little ugly and away from the initial function, and I would like to wish Musa luck for what they're planning to do, and that's not just a token annex to this post.

[Alkaline]

I don't think anyone who plays music genuinely expects to make any profit from performing or releasing these days - and that goes quite high up the ladder to bands who regularly tour and get near capacity crowds in every town they play. I know such a band who up until quite recently had to claim dole money simply to survive, because they didn't make a jot from constantly touring the UK, Europe, and the States; or even selling records until recently. And this is a band who have essentially had to be full-time for several years now.

I think what most people are getting at when they advocate payment for artists at all levels is the fact that most people/venues who book bands to perform are not booking them because they genuinely like them (otherwise they wouldn't need to advertise for bands to play their nights; they'd actively approach bands they like or who fit into certain ideas for bills they have) - they book them because they have live music on that particular night and they want to make a profit in the hope these bands pull crowds. The reason I'm normally sceptical towards this approach is because it's very very rare that you see some of these bookers/venues actually promote the bands they have booked to the extent they deserve. The hope is that these new musicians will have some friends come along with pretty deep wallets. I'm not levelling this at Musa at all, in fact I have already identified and conceded that most of what I have said in this thread doesn't relate to the original point of the thread and I know I'm at least partly responsible for veering the thread hideously off topic.

When I appeal for musicians to get paid, it's to cover the individual costs related to playing that show. Even at a local level, that involves getting gear to the venue, potential time off work to make soundcheck, and, if gigging relatively regularly, depreciation of equipment (I'm aware this is minimal, but regular gigging musicians all incur gear depreciation, and even maintainance, such as strings, plectrums, etc). This needn't be a lot - it could even be a token gesture of a tenner at local level. It is, as Adam suggested, a matter of principle. Most venues and bookers when making a booking are doing it in the hope they make money out of it. So if that's the case, why shouldn't the musicians, who are playing and providing the very essence of what a night of live music is about, receive a relative sum for their part in proceedings?

I have played many many gigs for free in my time, and would still happily consider doing so if the gig was worthwhile or for charity, but if playing a show is at my own personal expense, yet someone else was looking to make a profit from it, I'd be inclined to say no. That's not to say it's all about money at all - I'm just not in a position to play a gig at my own expense anymore; ironically because my involvement in music put me in that situation in the first place. It's just not sustainable, and I had to decline some gig offers because to play the show would have cost me money in the end. Sure, that's in relation to my own personal circumstances, but I know for a fact I'm not the only musician at my exceptionally low level who shares those circumstances.

As I have already said, this has veered away from the initial point of the thread. But this thread made me a bit sick in the mouth when I was being referred to as "sad" for advocating payment for musicians. I felt that was a bit unfair, given that music has never been about profit for me. My point is merely encouraging sustainability for musicians.

And just because not every musician or band are able to roll up and play gigs for no money purely to "enjoy the experience of playing with, and to, friends", it doesn't mean they get any less of a thrill out of doing it. It's just a bit rum to assume everyone is in such a liberated position to be able to do that.

But like I say, this thread has grown a little ugly and away from the initial function, and I would like to wish Musa luck for what they're planning to do, and that's not just a token annex to this post.

Unfortunately music isn't really a sustainable "job" for your average musician as i'm sure you're aware. That's why most of us have actual jobs and just enjoy playing as and when we can (or not as the case may be).

It's not an ideal world and it's churlish to suggest that people shouldn't be paid for gigs (something that i haven't said by the way) but it's also ridiculous to think that all local gigs should be supporting what is very much a hobby for your average musician. Please be aware that i'm purely talking about local gigs and bands rather than touring as already stated.

Maybe you should get a cap and get out on the royal mile and busk the shit out of it when you aren't working. That's paid (pretty well actually).

What are all these "personal expenses" that people keep harping on about as well? A pack of strings? If being a musician is a sustainable business then surely all these things are tax deductable as a business expense. It's a bloody pack of strings for god's sake! I go through more strings playing at home than i do in gigs. I worked hard to be able to afford the gear i have (nothing paid for by my parents) and i work hard to maintain them as and when needed but i'm very concious of the fact that being a musician is an expensive hobby and isn't always my main priority as a fully functioning adult with responsibilities.

Every band is capable of turning up to a local gig incurring very little expense and enjoy the experience of playing to whoever turns up. If they're not, they're doing music wrong.

[Guest idol_wild]

Unfortunately music isn't really a sustainable "job" for your average musician as i'm sure you're aware. That's why most of us have actual jobs and just enjoy playing as and when we can (or not as the case may be).

It's not an ideal world and it's churlish to suggest that people shouldn't be paid for gigs (something that i haven't said by the way) but it's also ridiculous to think that all local gigs should be supporting what is very much a hobby for your average musician. Please be aware that i'm purely talking about local gigs and bands rather than touring as already stated.

Maybe you should get a cap and get out on the royal mile and busk the shit out of it when you aren't working. That's paid (pretty well actually).

What are all these "personal expenses" that people keep harping on about as well? A pack of strings? If being a musician is a sustainable business then surely all these things are tax deductable as a business expense. It's a bloody pack of strings for god's sake! I go through more strings playing at home than i do in gigs. I worked hard to be able to afford the gear i have (nothing paid for by my parents) and i work hard to maintain them as and when needed but i'm very concious of the fact that being a musician is an expensive hobby and isn't always my main priority as a fully functioning adult with responsibilities.

Every band is capable of turning up to a local gig incurring very little expense and enjoy the experience of playing to whoever turns up. If they're not, they're doing music wrong.

Thanks for the self-righteous patronising.

Edit: And there was no mention in my post at all about the sustainability of music as a "job". The main crux of my view is that if a business (be it a venue or booker) is looking to make money out of bands performing, then those bands should also receive remuneration, and not be expected to incur their own financial costs. You're clearly going to seek every opportunity to try and pick apart any posts disagreeing with your righteous views, so I'm going to try and draw a line under my involvement in this thread. To the relief of most of you, I'm sure.