R&B Music: I've had enough

[jon]

Fuck, I don't even know what that ^ means. My brain hurts. I blame Curriculum for Excellence's absence of assessment standards. Who wouldn't?

[Monk Rocker]

please explain?

I spent a few quid getting my Stingray set up to play just the way I want it to, and once I did I realised I didn't actually want a new bass. I've since saved myself thousands of pounds by having my other bass set up too!

For sure, you're not going to be able to turn a strat into a Les Paul with a set up, but there's a lot more to a properly set up guitar than adjusting the action.

[jon]

Guitar Aquisition Syndrome?

[Monk Rocker]

Yep! That's the one!!

[Lemonade]

I can vouch for Fatboy, he's set up a few of my guitars and done a sterling job. Also eradicated annoying little things like fret buzz, crackly jack inputs etc.

[Surfer_Rosa]

Fuck, I don't even know what that ^ means. My brain hurts. I blame Curriculum for Excellence's absence of assessment standards. Who wouldn't?

Shivers down the spine

[modman]

I want to reprise my original post just to get the thread back on track again.

My Fender Twin has gone from bad to worse. Until I can find a totally trusted tech to open her up and have a good old honest look at her, she will be rendered totally unuseable. Prior to this debacle I had not one problem with this amp since buying it. It had been tonally consistent and did everything one would want a Twin to do. Yet I put it in to R&B music for a bias and a general once-over and it came back unplayable.

I cannot emphasise just how angry I am, not only with what these people have done to my 1300 amplifier, but also with how I was treated when I tried to address the situation. Minge-tickler insulted me in front of customers and several staff, including the guy who claimed to have serviced my amp, in a place in which I had shopped loyally for 15 years. He had been more than happy to take my thousands of pounds over the years, yet totally unprepared to acknowledge the problems they had caused me in the here and now. Minge-tickler actually had the cheek to tell me that I had entered his shop with an attitude problem, that I had been looking for an argument.

I realise that I simply got extremely unlucky. Yet, having watched this thread unfold with interest I have observed some similar stories to mine. I would therefore implore people to reconsider using this company.

Do not shop there. Do not have your goods serviced there. Do not even tread the 6-feet inside the door to the plectrum counter.

Or do what you like. Just know that when I get around around to spending between 400-600 on a quality electro acoustic guitar in the next month or so it will not be at R&B fucking music.

[Monk Rocker]

We get the picture - you don't like R&B anymore. But not everyone has had poor experiences there. If you're that angry about it speak to CAB/trading standards/a lawyer.

[Guest droid]

I bought a 800 custom built bass through them over 20 years ago,when the neck went like a banana minge tickler wasn't interested and said there was nothing wrong with it.I sent it back to the luthier who repaired it.Minge tickler would always look at me like something he scraped off the soul of his shoe when i asked to try out basses in the shop,but was happy to take my money.He got his comeuppance though at a Trace Elliot demonstration,when he was playing guitar at the show he totally c**ted his guitar solo.....i can only but sympathise,why don't you contact trading standards

[modman]

"We get the picture - you don't like R&B anymore. But not everyone has had poor experiences there. If you're that angry about it speak to CAB/trading standards/a lawyer."

Indeed. Yet I would much rather spend my time campaigning locally, where my grievances might stand a chance of being taken seriously. Perhaps in the form of some brave employee reproaching his boss for the sake of restoring harmony and equilibrium once more. Your objection has been duly noted though. Thanks Monkrocker.

[Frosty Jack]

the other guy who seemed fairly high up was really nice though, maybe seem age as minge tickler, near bald, wore glasses, very soft spoken. But he seemed to have the memory of thin air.

That would be Bill, the other owner being Ross. Ross & Bill = R&B.

[triggs]

I want to reprise my original post just to get the thread back on track again.

My Fender Twin has gone from bad to worse. Until I can find a totally trusted tech to open her up and have a good old honest look at her, she will be rendered totally unuseable. .

the only name you need Dennis Marshall's Amp Repair Shop

might seem a bit of a drive but well worth it i promise he's seen to a couple of my treasured amps

[Monk Rocker]

If he's fixed W.A.S.P's amps he's got my vote!!!! Lol

I've heard good things about that guy - he's been recommended to me too.

[Christy]

The thing is that it's not just the shoddy workmanship that gets on my tits, it's the fact that Modman (my brother) is an excellent guitarist and takes his music (and by extension, his equipment) very seriously. This crook took on an amp in good faith and not only broke it, but insulted the owner!

The sheer injustice of the whole situation is absurd. Today I spent a whole bunch of money on a new snare drum; I'm not saying that I would have definitely gone to R&B to buy it otherwise, but I would have at least entered the premises to check out what they had. Perhaps I'm hurting myself by not giving them my custom, but I know first hand just how fucked Modman's amp is, and I know with 100% certainty that he treated it with perfect care. R&B have treated him like shit and have lost at least five loyal customers (The Deportees) over this.

[fatboy]

why bother moaning about and get something done

if you genuinely feel like you have been given a bad service by R & B that goes against trading standards law, then investigate it!

if all you say is true then R&B will not have a leg to stand on, however all this moaning etc will devalue your case

for example, if a garage fits a new tyre to a car

customer goes down the road, the tyre blows out, is it the garages fault for fitting a faulty tyre?

or would the customer have to take it up with the manufacturer? then the customer would have to go through the process of prooving that it was the tyre at fault and not driving/road conditions

if you bought a jumper and it frayed in the wash, do you blame the shop for selling inferior garments or your washing machine for tearing up your wooly jumper?

these examples are thin

however you are entitled to read the policies of R and B before you commited to the repair of the amp.

by getting the amp repaired means you agreed to the policies

i know everyone cant go into shops and read the entire shops policies but, really some things cannot be fixed.

the amp worked before it went in, and apparently now it doesnt work the same to what you originally left it

i would be unhappy

but how can you prove the amp was made faulty by poor workman ship

have you considered any eventuallity that would render the amp unservicable between taking it home from the shop and using it

People don't think to investigate the possiblities before they agree to things, and maybe you could have avoided this by doing so.

as you said you forgave them about stuff before, maybe once yer blood stops boiling you might start to come to your senses

if you came into my shop with an attitude, in all respect, i can comment on your poor approach, i would be reluctant to help you as a customer facing employee it fucking works both ways mate, go in with an attitude and your not going to get help.

and for him calling upon you having a attitude is just a persons observation no need to make it personal

as for anyone who has their own mind, they will or will not continue to shop at R and B for their music related items regardless of how much you continue to boycott them

dont get me wrong, i like a good moan too when i get pissed off

but seriously chill winston

think of your approach the next time, they might have been more helpfull if you didnt go in with guns blazing

call me a cunt if you want but thats all

[HateEvent]

This thread is funny now.

I'll post properly when I'm not on my phone.

[HateEvent]

"We get the picture - you don't like R&B anymore. But not everyone has had poor experiences there. If you're that angry about it speak to CAB/trading standards/a lawyer."

Indeed. Yet I would much rather spend my time campaigning locally, where my grievances might stand a chance of being taken seriously. Perhaps in the form of some brave employee reproaching his boss for the sake of restoring harmony and equilibrium once more. Your objection has been duly noted though. Thanks Monkrocker.

This is hilarious.

There were 3 members of staff AND the boss listening at the time after the amp was soak tested for 6+ hours without a peep whilst being run at about 7/10.

I'm going out on a limb here and saying that 3 people not including the one which you have a gripe with have their own opinion and also hearing ability and could identify any problems had any arisen. If there were ANY issues when tested you wouldn't have been contacted until they were rectified.

I 'm sure that I actually was in the shop - working or otherwise, I don't recall - when you came by to bring your amp back. Having been informed of your 'issues' as it were prior to your arrival, I was still surprised by your mannerisms upon arrival.

No offence, but have you checked every other element of your chain to ensure there is nothing else causing a problem? As 6+ hours without an issue is a substantial test to prove no problems.

If you have any issues with this post then take it up with me personally as I speak for myself, not the shop.

[Adam Easy Wishes]

however you are entitled to read the policies of R and B before you commited to the repair of the amp.

by getting the amp repaired means you agreed to the policies

i know everyone cant go into shops and read the entire shops policies but, really some things cannot be fixed.

Company policy does not absolve them of obligation under relevant consumer law.

the amp worked before it went in, and apparently now it doesnt work the same to what you originally left it

i would be unhappy

but how can you prove the amp was made faulty by poor workman ship

The fact is, the amp went in working and came out not working. Something has happened during the time it was at R&B (or, granted on the way home - but highly unlikely as it is clearly a major issue) to cause it not to work.

The difference is, if the guy at the shop had been nice about it and offered to have a decent look at fixing it properly then there would be far less bad feeling.

My take on it is they looked at the amp, couldn't sort it/made it worse (wooly, I know ) and whacked new valves in to try and make some money back on their time. Obviously that is just my opinion.

Further to that, it has been compounded by previous bad experience, namely an electro-acoustic that was put in to have the electrics fixed, but came back with an almighty buzz, almost loud enough that it drowns out any tuneful noise the guitar might struggle to make when played.

There were 3 members of staff AND the boss listening at the time after the amp was soak tested for 6+ hours without a peep whilst being run at about 7/10.

I'm going out on a limb here and saying that 3 people not including the one which you have a gripe with have their own opinion and also hearing ability and could identify any problems had any arisen. If there were ANY issues when tested you wouldn't have been contacted until they were rectified.

You soaked it?! No wonder it's not working! :]

In all seriousness though, what is a 'soak test'?

Obviously we'll just have to take your word for it that four members of staff listened post-test (I've no reason to doubt you, so that's fine); but I see your four and raise you FIVE members of The Deportees who have clearly heard that it is not in good working order since being put in for 'repair'.

I assume that the shop are happy to concede that it currently is not 100% (I don't expect you to reply on behalf of R&B), so surely the question is whether that was either;

a) caused through no fault of R&B or Modman and just unlucky,

b) caused by poor/negligent workmanship at R&B, or

c) caused by another factor between the amp leaving the shop and being returned to the practice room.

I doubt that it's a) given the period of time between the 'repair' and it being played and the fault being discovered. I would also struggle to accept that it was c) given the amp was put in the back of a car to be taken home from the shop straight after the 'repair', which leaves b), unless I have missed a possibility.

For what it's worth, I've never personally had a bad experience with R&B, I bought my first bass guitar there and occasionally buy strings and/or picks, but have not made a major purchase in years.

[britheguy]

Have you tried the old valves (or even another new set) back in to see if the thing works any better, or at least as well as it did before it went to R&B?

Did you follow up on the name of the guy that was given to you? He might have at least gave you pointers on whether there was an issue of poor workmanship on R&B side, thus giving you real evidence to take the matter further, either on the legal side of things, or justified "bad mouthing" of a company.

As for the attitude side of things, I'm sorry but I'm on the side of the OP here. A shop should be polite to a customer, unless of course that customer gets a bit "punchy" or make personal comments aimed that the shops salesperson. Saying that the salesperson should not get into a slanging match in front of other staff and/or shoppers. that's just poor management of the situation.

Just my thoughts of course so feel free to rip them to shreds

[Alkaline]

In all seriousness though, what is a 'soak test'?

Just in case you're being serious:

A soak test is the testing of an item over a significant period of time with a significant load to see how it behaves under continuous use. Soak tests in Bruce Millers are usually 8hrs which is a more than generous time for a fault to show up under use (As is 6hrs by the way).

If Modman wants to go further afield Dennis Mitchell is the guy to go for. If he wants somewhere closer then he can bring it in to Bruce Millers if he wants. Standard booking in fee 48 (paid when it's dropped off) parts charged on top of that (if parts are going to exceed 15 we'll ask you if you want to go ahead with the repair).

I'd personally only use Les at BMs for my amp repairs as i personally know that he's a good technician and good with electronics. However, i appreciate that i work for BMs and it may look like i'm just drumming up business. Although anyone that knows me personally will also know that i'm not a liar so take from that what you will.

[modman]

why bother moaning about and get something done

if you genuinely feel like you have been given a bad service by R & B that goes against trading standards law, then investigate it!

if all you say is true then R&B will not have a leg to stand on, however all this moaning etc will devalue your case

for example, if a garage fits a new tyre to a car

customer goes down the road, the tyre blows out, is it the garages fault for fitting a faulty tyre?

or would the customer have to take it up with the manufacturer? then the customer would have to go through the process of prooving that it was the tyre at fault and not driving/road conditions

if you bought a jumper and it frayed in the wash, do you blame the shop for selling inferior garments or your washing machine for tearing up your wooly jumper?

these examples are thin

however you are entitled to read the policies of R and B before you commited to the repair of the amp.

by getting the amp repaired means you agreed to the policies

i know everyone cant go into shops and read the entire shops policies but, really some things cannot be fixed.

the amp worked before it went in, and apparently now it doesnt work the same to what you originally left it

i would be unhappy

but how can you prove the amp was made faulty by poor workman ship

have you considered any eventuallity that would render the amp unservicable between taking it home from the shop and using it

People don't think to investigate the possiblities before they agree to things, and maybe you could have avoided this by doing so.

as you said you forgave them about stuff before, maybe once yer blood stops boiling you might start to come to your senses

if you came into my shop with an attitude, in all respect, i can comment on your poor approach, i would be reluctant to help you as a customer facing employee it fucking works both ways mate, go in with an attitude and your not going to get help.

and for him calling upon you having a attitude is just a persons observation no need to make it personal

as for anyone who has their own mind, they will or will not continue to shop at R and B for their music related items regardless of how much you continue to boycott them

think of your approach the next time, they might have been more helpfull if you didnt go in with guns blazing

call me a cunt if you want but thats all

This is hilarious. Thanks for the advice but I have absolutely no idea what your post means. It seems you contradict yourself several times throughout. You also seem to consider yourself an authority on several issues pertaining to my situation. Did you personally observe me going into R&B Music "with guns blazing" because I can assure you I did not. I became angry with Minge-tickler's insulting and arrogant attitude and also with his immediate (and I mean within seconds, without even switching my amp on) insistence that his shop could not possibly be to blame. This, I made perfectly clear, as is my right. But I did not raise my voice and did not insult anybody. I am a perfectly articulate fellow who doesn't need to act like a child to have his point heard.

As for your insistence that my moaning will devalue my case: Firstly I wasn't aware I was moaning. This is only the 4th post I have made on a thread stretching way past 100. Secondly, I do not have a case to devalue. But I have a right to post what I want and from the responses to this thread I would suggest that there are a lot of sympathisers out there. Thanks though. Especially for the jumper analogy. That was great.

[Soda Jerk]

I liked the jumper analogy too. To prevent this from happening again, you should probably hand wash your amp, or do it on a slow spin.

[modman]

Have you tried the old valves (or even another new set) back in to see if the thing works any better, or at least as well as it did before it went to R&B?

Did you follow up on the name of the guy that was given to you? He might have at least gave you pointers on whether there was an issue of poor workmanship on R&B side, thus giving you real evidence to take the matter further, either on the legal side of things, or justified "bad mouthing" of a company.

As for the attitude side of things, I'm sorry but I'm on the side of the OP here. A shop should be polite to a customer, unless of course that customer gets a bit "punchy" or make personal comments aimed that the shops salesperson. Saying that the salesperson should not get into a slanging match in front of other staff and/or shoppers. that's just poor management of the situation.

Just my thoughts of course so feel free to rip them to shreds

Thanks Britheguy

I'm following up an a few things and getting as much advice as I can before I take it anywhere else. So far I have tried everything that I can, including changing valves (I kept my old Groove Tubes) and various other things. I've called a few people, sent a few e-mails and am trying to address the problem heuristically before popping her in elsewhere Your advice is appreciated, cheers.

I can never 'evidence' that R&B were at fault for this problem. If I could then I would have already won this battle through trading standards. However, Minge-tickler is clearly aware of this too; he has years of experience and I am undoubtedly not the first person who has faced this kind of situation over the years. He knows exactly what blanket response to offer and exactly how to relieve his business of responsibility. He is no mug, hence why he has maintained a succesful business over so many years.

[modman]

This is hilarious.

There were 3 members of staff AND the boss listening at the time after the amp was soak tested for 6+ hours without a peep whilst being run at about 7/10.

I'm going out on a limb here and saying that 3 people not including the one which you have a gripe with have their own opinion and also hearing ability and could identify any problems had any arisen. If there were ANY issues when tested you wouldn't have been contacted until they were rectified.

I 'm sure that I actually was in the shop - working or otherwise, I don't recall - when you came by to bring your amp back. Having been informed of your 'issues' as it were prior to your arrival, I was still surprised by your mannerisms upon arrival.

No offence, but have you checked every other element of your chain to ensure there is nothing else causing a problem? As 6+ hours without an issue is a substantial test to prove no problems.

If you have any issues with this post then take it up with me personally as I speak for myself, not the shop.

Cheers for your post HateEvent.

I'm confused: if there were no discernible problems during the soak test, then why, when Minge-tickler, phoned me back 5 days later (5 days, not 6 hours) did he tell me that he had gone to the trouble of changing all my preamp valves. He of course expected to be remunerated for this, which is why I (politely) asked him to put my old ones back in and give me my amp back. On one hand he could hear nothing wrong yet on the other he had considered it necessary to change my valves. This makes little sense to me.

I didn't see you when I came in to put my amp back. In the shop at the time were Minge-tickler, the guy who serviced my amp (nice guy, tattoos), and another fellow (tall, slim, has worked there for years). If you were elsewhere in the shop then you might not have heard your boss's incredibly devaluing and patronising response to me when I told him that the amp that I had put into his shop for servicing, had been returned in an unplayable state. What you might have heard though was a single disgruntled customer, being railroaded by 3 staff members: ("do you hear anything wrong with it?" "No, do you?", "Nope". And so forth) . During the 10 minute 'soak test' at the counter that day, with the volume on at 3, the crackling could be clearly heard. Have you any idea how belittling it is to be told by three people that they can't hear something that is so clearly audible? Furthermore this crackling is the least of this amp's current problems.

The facts that I have presented here are true. My Fender Twin is hugely ill. This may or may not be the fault of the person who had serviced it, but can never be proven either way. I know what I believe though, and I know that your boss has an attitude problem and has lost a loyal customer because of it. There is nothing hilarious about this, believe me.

[Fraser Mac]

Cheers for your post HateEvent.

During the 10 minute 'soak test' at the counter that day, with the volume on at 3, the crackling could be clearly heard.

Why did you leave the store with an amp that was crackling?

Sorry if im being stupid here, but i wouldn't have left unless it was fixed.

?