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CraigO

Gig Venues In Aberdeen.

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Hi,

I was wondering if anyone on here could name some other 14+ venues in Aberdeen apart from Drummonds + Tunnels as they are not too keen on putting on shows with under 18s bands unless it has a high expected outcome of people.

I completely understand this but was wondering if anyone knew anyother venues that are happy to put on shows with under 18 bands no matter the expected outcome.

Cheers x

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I put on quite a young bill at the Tunnels not long ago, I presumed it wouldn't be a problem but apparently it was. The gig ended up pulling over 100 on the door and they bar made a fuckload of money. In my opinion local venues should utilise +14 licenses and young people love going to gigs, especially when they have friends starting out in new bands it can be quite exciting and a regular, fun thing to do.

I remember the days of selling hundreds of tickets to mates to go to Kef gigs, long gone are those days if the Tunnels and Drummonds are making a serious effort to clamp down on the age of performers. Warehouse has shut, Kef has shut. Is there anywhere else?

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Guest Gladstone
I put on quite a young bill at the Tunnels not long ago, I presumed it wouldn't be a problem but apparently it was. The gig ended up pulling over 100 on the door and they bar made a fuckload of money. In my opinion local venues should utilise +14 licenses and young people love going to gigs, especially when they have friends starting out in new bands it can be quite exciting and a regular, fun thing to do.

I remember the days of selling hundreds of tickets to mates to go to Kef gigs, long gone are those days if the Tunnels and Drummonds are making a serious effort to clamp down on the age of performers. Warehouse has shut, Kef has shut. Is there anywhere else?

Tunnels seems like an obvious choice for 14+ gigs midweek.

It's been said a few times on here recently that people have gone to Tunnels and it's not been busy.

Like you say, young bands do take their mates to gigs etc etc. Tunnels is down there by itself with seemingly not many folk going.

Now, obviously, the venue won't make much money if it does that on a hire basis, because the 60 to hire the venue, must nearly all go to the sound engineer, and they have to make sure it's staffed properly - barmen, security etc, plus the running costs. How many cans of coke do you have to sell to under 18s to cover all those costs? Quite a few I'd imagine.

So - that means, for that to work in the venue's favour, they need to be putting those gigs on themselves - like Paul used to do at Kef. Nobody liked Paul's ticket-selling thing for the local bands and I don't think you really need that here. If Hen (or someone else putting on gigs at Tunnels - not sure if it's exclusively Hen?) got some new local bands to come in and play during the week, and tell them to bring their friends along - make it 14+, give the bands some of the door money, and scope out how good these bands are for future support slots for the likes of the AGP gigs etc. it could work.

But all that said - 100 folk through the door at 3 a go, is still just 300, and when none (or hardly any) of the punters are old enough to drink, the bar isn't going to make much money, so if the venue is looking to make money midweek, it may prefer the option of 18+ gig with fewer people because people who are drinking tend to have at least a few beers.

It's a tricky one.

New over 18s bands can make the venue a bit of cash. I remember our first gig at the Tunnels - there was probably about 120 through the door or so, and Hen just gave us the door money to split between the 4 bands, so their bar takings must have been pretty good - I was a student with loads of student mates all getting pissed on a Tuesday night...

Maybe pulling in some higher profile bands to the Tunnels could work?

I dunno.

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Tunnels seems like an obvious choice for 14+ gigs midweek.

It's been said a few times on here recently that people have gone to Tunnels and it's not been busy.

Like you say, young bands do take their mates to gigs etc etc. Tunnels is down there by itself with seemingly not many folk going.

Now, obviously, the venue won't make much money if it does that on a hire basis, because the 60 to hire the venue, must nearly all go to the sound engineer, and they have to make sure it's staffed properly - barmen, security etc, plus the running costs. How many cans of coke do you have to sell to under 18s to cover all those costs? Quite a few I'd imagine.

So - that means, for that to work in the venue's favour, they need to be putting those gigs on themselves - like Paul used to do at Kef. Nobody liked Paul's ticket-selling thing for the local bands and I don't think you really need that here. If Hen (or someone else putting on gigs at Tunnels - not sure if it's exclusively Hen?) got some new local bands to come in and play during the week, and tell them to bring their friends along - make it 14+, give the bands some of the door money, and scope out how good these bands are for future support slots for the likes of the AGP gigs etc. it could work.

But all that said - 100 folk through the door at 3 a go, is still just 300, and when none (or hardly any) of the punters are old enough to drink, the bar isn't going to make much money, so if the venue is looking to make money midweek, it may prefer the option of 18+ gig with fewer people because people who are drinking tend to have at least a few beers.

It's a tricky one.

New over 18s bands can make the venue a bit of cash. I remember our first gig at the Tunnels - there was probably about 120 through the door or so, and Hen just gave us the door money to split between the 4 bands, so their bar takings must have been pretty good - I was a student with loads of student mates all getting pissed on a Tuesday night...

Maybe pulling in some higher profile bands to the Tunnels could work?

I dunno.

But it doesn't have to just be +14 bands playing, there's no harm in putting them on with older bands if they are willing.

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But it doesn't have to just be +14 bands playing, there's no harm in putting them on with older bands if they are willing.

Exactly this - when 10EW were 14/15 we were supporting bands at Lava and there was a mix of kidz drinking Cokes and oldz taking coke (actually just drinking beer) and it was ace. It may have actually been shit, but it felt ace because I was 14 and playing in a half-decent venue.

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I really want to get the kids into the venues because they're the legal adults of tomorrow years. They're like... the future man. And just two years after that they'll be able to buy a proper drink as well so everybody wins. Smell my fingers.

:up:

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Is this right?

There is no longer a medium-sized venue in Aberdeen that will put on over 14s shows?

Its not that Tunnels and Drummonds wont put on 14+ shows at all. Most touring shows we put on are 14+.

The issue is some promoters end up fillinmg the venue with 200 + under 18s meaning it costs us a shit load to even open the doors to cover staff and security, engineer costs and all the usual costs that bore you such as power etc.

Gigs with a mix of Unders and over 18s are totally fine but we are a business, not a community centre and whereas we do our best to support younger bands we cant justify a full venue but making no money on the bar.

We will still be doing specific nights for under 18 bands and crowds as we know this age group is imporrtant but all we are asking is that promoters clear line ups with us beforehand.

As the hire fee is only 60 we rely on the bar take. Venues elsewhere charge loads more for 14+ shows - ie Cab Voltaire in Edinburgh is 200 hire for 18+ but 450 ish for 14+ so they know they will cover costs.

So basically to clear up 14+ is still generally fine for reputable promoters.

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Tunnels seems like an obvious choice for 14+ gigs midweek.

It's been said a few times on here recently that people have gone to Tunnels and it's not been busy.

Like you say, young bands do take their mates to gigs etc etc. Tunnels is down there by itself with seemingly not many folk going.

Now, obviously, the venue won't make much money if it does that on a hire basis, because the 60 to hire the venue, must nearly all go to the sound engineer, and they have to make sure it's staffed properly - barmen, security etc, plus the running costs. How many cans of coke do you have to sell to under 18s to cover all those costs? Quite a few I'd imagine.

So - that means, for that to work in the venue's favour, they need to be putting those gigs on themselves - like Paul used to do at Kef. Nobody liked Paul's ticket-selling thing for the local bands and I don't think you really need that here. If Hen (or someone else putting on gigs at Tunnels - not sure if it's exclusively Hen?) got some new local bands to come in and play during the week, and tell them to bring their friends along - make it 14+, give the bands some of the door money, and scope out how good these bands are for future support slots for the likes of the AGP gigs etc. it could work.

But all that said - 100 folk through the door at 3 a go, is still just 300, and when none (or hardly any) of the punters are old enough to drink, the bar isn't going to make much money, so if the venue is looking to make money midweek, it may prefer the option of 18+ gig with fewer people because people who are drinking tend to have at least a few beers.

It's a tricky one.

New over 18s bands can make the venue a bit of cash. I remember our first gig at the Tunnels - there was probably about 120 through the door or so, and Hen just gave us the door money to split between the 4 bands, so their bar takings must have been pretty good - I was a student with loads of student mates all getting pissed on a Tuesday night...

Maybe pulling in some higher profile bands to the Tunnels could work?

I dunno.

Indeed that is the plan - we aim to have quality touring bands in more nights than not in the near future in Tunnels and Drummonds, which in turn will allow younger bands and locals in general to get decent support slots etc. As well as Hen, I am now booking in house too, Aaron is on board and James Bruce is also doing a lot of work on shows for us. That coupled with AGP stuff I do, the brilliant bands Interesting Music/Vocoustics etc get up, Im quite excited about the future.

Its early days but already we have Emma Pollock, The Low Anthem, The Second Hand Marching Band, Elliot Minor, Oceansize, Mark Morriss, The Wedding Present, Esperi, Electric Eel Shock, Delays, Mudhoney, Mt Desolation, The Joy Formidable, Chapel Club, Flashguns, General Fiasco, The Birthday Massacre, Polar Bear, Sky Larkin, Succioperro, Healthy Minds Collapse, Copy Haho, Young Rebel Set, 6 Day Riot, Cancer Bats and heaps more (as Im modest and wont mention my AGP shows) all before the end of the year.

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I think that if 14+ gigs were advertised more in say schools, youth clubs etc, then they could pull in bigger crowds to the tunnels. It's not much effort for a bunch of kids away to play a gig to put together a little poster and stick it on a notice board. Maybe get someone to volunteer to do the sound?

I'm sure there'll be at least one or two sound guys in Aberdeen willing to do a gig for less money, or even for free... but I have been wrong before.

I remember when I was 14/15 living in Shetland. The band I was in played loads of places. Halls were hired out for underage gigs, and the bar wasn't open, they just had some dude with a table handing out tins of coke for a quid each.

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I

I'm sure there'll be at least one or two sound guys in Aberdeen willing to do a gig for less money, or even for free... but I have been wrong before.

See this is the bit I don't get, if someone is making money, and they would be, why would anyone be expected to do their job for less or free ? If these gigs were to happen it should happen with the people working at it getting paid the same as they would any other gig, that's the only fair way to do it, and hence why it's so difficult.

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I'm sure there'll be at least one or two sound guys in Aberdeen willing to do a gig for less money, or even for free...

A professional sound guy wouldn't (and shouldn't) do gigs for free. The whole point of paying someone to do a job is to get the benefit of their expert knowledge. You might get an amateur to do it if he was a friend* but unless they're a door mat I can't imagine them making a habit of it.

*Will the venue really let your mate mess about with their PA? Doubt it.

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*Will the venue really let your mate mess about with their PA? Doubt it.

You're right, they won't. Unless the venue knows and trusts the engineer they aren't going to give them unsupervised control of thousands of pounds worth of equipment that can quite easily be damaged by the technically inept or hundreds of pounds worth of equipment that can be easily secreted in gig bags.

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Well I was maybe a bit of a knob for that comment about sound engineers working for free... let's face it, I probably wouldn't, but the rest of my argument as far as I can tell is pretty valid.

I'm not trying to "point the finger" or anything, because it's not necessarily the venue(s) doing. When kids turn up drunk on the little bottle of Glens Vodka they nicked from their mams cupboard, if anything happens, the venue gets the blame... it's just a vicious cycle really... Let them play, you'll get in trouble from authorities, don't let them play and the kids will probably go apeshit at you for having nowhere to play.

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Guest idol_wild
Lets all work for free and then when we start to starve we can get a job at a college teaching other people how to work for free.

Honestly there is so much wrong with this "industry" right now.

You get paid more than the bands do.

Pipe down.

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sorry "idol wild", you are very misinformed.

Depends where you're playing/engineering tbf. I think the occasions when any of my bands have been paid more than the sound engineer, could be counted on one hand. Maybe just two.

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You get paid more than the bands do.

Pipe down.

Yeah Phil, get a clue, eh? Maybe start putting on some shows, that'll learn ya.

just so we're clear I don't know the answer to this but I felt like getting involved with a quip.

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sorry "idol wild", you are very misinformed.

I'm not complaining or anything, or saying engineers shouldn't get paid, but in the vast majority of 'local band gigs', the engineer will be getting paid more than the band. This is also true in a very large amount of touring bands, certainly the majority playing venues smaller than, say, the Music Hall. Sure, the fee might be more, but money left after staff costs (driver, ENGINEER), agent/management cut, petrol, accom., misc. supplies, PDs, insurance, etc, will be insubstantial at best.

I'd also say that one of the main things that's wrong with the music industry right now is people complaining about the music industry. Either get your head down and work and be positive about what can be an amazing way to spend your life, or do something else!

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I'd also say that one of the main things that's wrong with the music industry right now is people complaining about the music industry. Either get your head down and work and be positive about what can be an amazing way to spend your life, or do something else!

That requires effort though Richard. That's like, too hard and stuff.

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I'm not complaining or anything, or saying engineers shouldn't get paid, but in the vast majority of 'local band gigs', the engineer will be getting paid more than the band. This is also true in a very large amount of touring bands, certainly the majority playing venues smaller than, say, the Music Hall. Sure, the fee might be more, but money left after staff costs (driver, ENGINEER), agent/management cut, petrol, accom., misc. supplies, PDs, insurance, etc, will be insubstantial at best.

I'd also say that one of the main things that's wrong with the music industry right now is people complaining about the music industry. Either get your head down and work and be positive about what can be an amazing way to spend your life, or do something else!

It depends on what role the engineer is playing and what level the artists are at.

The Taylored chaps, being PA hire, have public liability insurance, fuel, van insurance/ tax/repair, staff costs, maintenance (necessary and legal requirements) etc. They also don't have any way to supplement their income (merch), don't usually get riders or PDs etc. although I've not spoke to them for a while, they were working in the medium-sized venue (up to music hall sort of size) so taking all that in to account, I reckon they probably do make less.

House engineers have a much easier time of it and probably do make more than individual band members, but since most individual band members run at a loss (taking into account expenses such as rehearsals, strings/sticks, cables etc) that's not saying much.

Touring engineers are somewhere in the middle, depends on the level of the band.

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