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scott.wright

Union Terrace Gardens

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Okay, a dangerous question this I suspect, but to help further the discussion...

Which plan is going to benefit people in Aberdeen the most and will represent the best value for money for all concered? (Arts Centre Vs Wood's plan)

I ask this question without an opinion myself - I know sod all about Ian Wood's plan for a start. I'm just wondering what other people think.

that's not answerable, is it.

None of us know what the solid "plans" or strategies are for what Ian W is proposing.

if it's another shopping mall & parking space for Aberdeen - my answer (in relation to "Vs" a centre for contemporary arts, which the aim is to try and raise the cultural input and output of this wee city of ours) is.....

---- heres another we peep rant. ----

What do Aberdonians want as a whole? - probably the same as any other city in the UK. To have something to be proud of, something that stimulates and interests people, something that makes them unique, but connected.

ask the people of Bilbao if they think a pesky arts centre has helped them.

then again, the UK's best selling paper is the Sun, and we kicked out two rather silly men from their jobs because they said they'd shagged someone's granddaughter (who's band is the "Satanic Slutz")...while the financial world goes into meltdown.

Elitism apparently only works if you are waving money around, Being Elite when you are talking about culture, raising worldly experience, education and understanding, you kind of get the response from the majority of fuck off pansy, paint a picture like a proper artist, and get a proper job (working in my factory, making me money).

I dont want to be a bit gristle in a sausage machine and I want others to share my passion in caring about things that apparently dont matter but are fundamental to our existence and fabric of being human.

To disagree with three-fourths of the British public is one of the first requisites of sanity. Oscar Wilde

and as Steven Fry had quoted Wilde All art is quite useless. To which he added so is wine, so is love.

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...Its not only Peacocks that will lose out, as will Whitespace, Arts Development, Creative Cultures, Cultural Enterprise and every other organisation which will be housed in the Centre.

I'd just like to clarify that Creative Cultures is based in Transition Extreme, and has not been included in any plans for re-location to the Northern Lights development. (Although I would like to "dot in" whenever possible, "more" cultural hubs can only be a good thing.)

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I'd just like to clarify that Creative Cultures is based in Transition Extreme, and has not been included in any plans for re-location to the Northern Lights development. (Although I would like to "dot in" whenever possible, "more" cultural hubs can only be a good thing.)

Appologies, my mistake. You know what I mean though....

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Appologies, my mistake. You know what I mean though....

oh, absolutely... I think the veiled 'elitist' we get (as creatives, artists etc) is just sad. Again, it's OK to be in a minority and push your views (push being an operative word) on people if you are rich enough for people to be frightened NOT to be on your side, for fear of monies being pulled etc.

What I do think will be rather difficult in this situation, is Peacock looking for funding from Trump, whilst railing against Wood...oops!

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i have to kinda say, i almost agree with Dave.

without knowing too much about the funding, running costs etc, it seems to me that there is an awful lot of public money going into the peacock project which will never be returned to the public.

if this project was to fail, be widely unused, then looking at the plans what could it be used for then?

dont get me wrong i really apreciate what the group want to achieve, but can this not be done on a slightly smaller scale? I`m not sure why but i cant help thinking Lemon Tree!

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I was a bit surprised to find myself almost in agreement with Dave...certainly the second part of his recent post. I wasn't convinced by the PVA plans (because of the damage to the gardens), although I disgree with the 'elitist' stuff, especially as a bigger profile would counteract any hints of that.

Ian Wood's whole involvement is very suspect.....all these fat cats who profess to 'love' Aberdeen are the very ones who have ripped the heart out of it in the past. They're dangerous predators, and they seem to have a symbiotic realtionship with Aberdeen Journals. :down:

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Right, I will set out my position in full, just in case I may have confused certain people in my previous posts;

I am utterly against the proposed Peacock proposal, on the grounds that it offers very little of value to the inhabitants of Aberdeen, and only serves to benefit a tiny clique who have found a way of effectively communicating their wishes to those who have the means to make them a reality (kudos to Jim Stax et al, it's nothing personal). Their proposals involve a substantial investment of taxpayers money in a scheme which will benefit almost none of them, whilst severely compromising the beauty and integrity of a noted city landmark.

Which brings me on to my second point...

The only thing I can think of that is worse than the Peacock plan is the proposal backed by Sir Ian Wood. The destruction of Union Terrace Gardens has been abhorrent to me ever since I was a scrawny teenager trying to be intellectual by reading Plato on the grass verges. The plan to raise the gardens has been around for years ( I believe it was Aberdeen's grand plan for the millennium, it speaks volumes that the people who doled out the money saw fit to fund the Millennium Dome but not that). It would be an act of crass and ill-judged architectural vandalism to destroy one of the defining features of Aberdeen's city centre in order to provide more car-parking spaces (which is undoubtedly the main reason this plan seems to be gaining so much support).

I would rather the Gardens were kept as they are, but maintained and protected as befits a civic asset, and not treated as a problem to be solved by the injection of concrete and the ill-founded plans of minority interests. Peacock Arts should be able to find a venue within the city boundaries at a much smaller cost than that which has been proposed, and that is right and correct. There are countless commercial and industrial zones lying vacant right now that could be developed to house such an organisation, but the cost should be borne by Peacock and the appropriate arts funding bodies, and not by the already over-burdened council tax payer. If they need private investment to cover the shortfall, I hear Sir Ian Wood has money to burn...

Fair enough on the second part of the post. The first part however made me laugh. I can't be arsed getting into the debate that has gone on for centuries but I will add that the Arts 'are' a very important part of a city and life. You (a non specific you) may not be directly involved or have an interest in culture and may hold the view of many famous and misguided philistine but a project such as the Arts centre would have many far reaching benefits for Aberdeen and surroundings.

Dave, you like music yeah? Lets close music venues.

We can burn books too. That was popular across some countries a century or so ago.

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i dearly hope the peacock proposal goes ahead, in present form, and certain Daily Mail types in this debate discover what will actually happpen inside + outside the building... be careful not to like, appreciate + USE it now!

didn't realise the EE had so much influence

+ if Wood gets his way good luck to you all.... mmwwwwwooooahaahahaha

mumm_ra.jpg_42736199_ian-wood203.jpg

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didn't realise the EE had so much influence

You would be surprised at how highly regarded the Aberdeen papers are - Purely on the strength of their readership profiles, which have pretty-much bucked the national trends of the last few years & retain amongst the best coverage & penetration in the UK.

Which may or may not say something about Aberdeen/NE in general but that's another thread. :)

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I would also be intrested to know exactly what question was asked by the EE survey?

There is the possibility it could have been rather leading perhaps?

"Out of 735 people, 392 (53%) said creating a new civic square above Union Terrace Gardens would benefit Aberdeen."

If you look at the quote above you'll see all you need to know. 53% of people didn't say they were in favour of the plan, they only said it would benefit Aberdeen.

To me there's a very big difference between 53% of people thinking it would benefit the city and the majority being in favour of the plans (whatever they turn out to be).

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Fair enough on the second part of the post. The first part however made me laugh. I can't be arsed getting into the debate that has gone on for centuries but I will add that the Arts 'are' a very important part of a city and life. You (a non specific you) may not be directly involved or have an interest in culture and may hold the view of many famous and misguided philistine but a project such as the Arts centre would have many far reaching benefits for Aberdeen and surroundings.

Is anyone seriously questioning the value of the arts and culture here? I don't think people are. Some people (arguably a lot of people) are just expressing the opinion that there are better things to spend this money on. Better schools, medical facilities, wardens, public transport, more affordable housing, local charities etc etc.

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Is anyone seriously questioning the value of the arts and culture here? I don't think people are. Some people (arguably a lot of people) are just expressing the opinion that there are better things to spend this money on. Better schools, medical facilities, wardens, public transport, more affordable housing, local charities etc etc.

Yeah, by expressing the opinon that there are "better" things to spend money on then obviously an assertion is being made on the value of arts and culture. So yes, people are seriously questioning its value.

Art isn't elitest, art is for everyone. What is the problem is people's preconceptions of what art is and what kind of people artists are. Its not as though the new peacock is going to refuse anyone who doesnt know about or like art.

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Yeah, by expressing the opinon that there are "better" things to spend money on then obviously an assertion is being made on the value of arts and culture. So yes, people are seriously questioning its value.

Art isn't elitest, art is for everyone. What is the problem is people's preconceptions of what art is and what kind of people artists are. Its not as though the new peacock is going to refuse anyone who doesnt know about or like art.

I don't know about that, I like to think that I'm pretty into music, books, art and stuff, but if for example there was a funding crisis for local schools, I wouldn't think twice about saying that money would be better spent in that area.

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I think that everyone agrees that there is certainly a place for art and this type of project, however my problem is the amount of money involved, mainly to maintain this. I would love to think it will at some point be in a position to maintain itself but is that going to be the case?

it just seems there are so many charities at the moment crying out for help that wouldnt the money be better off spread around? would be great to see some of these mutli-millionairres helping too, although i know some already do.

do the plans for the peacock centre not apear very exravagant?

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One question.

Who will own the Peacock building?

As for the Peacock plans being extravagant - they actually seem quite cheap to me, considering what it's intended to house.

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Better schools, medical facilities, wardens, public transport, more affordable housing, local charities etc etc.

[better schools] - how about some social responsibility from the house builders?

[medical facilities] - is this not the responsibility of the NHS?

[wardens - wages] - different budget

[public transport] - I'd imagine a different budget

[more affordable housing] - private houses paid for by the council?

[local charities] - hear hear - (as long as they are "valid" - eh...not poxy art & culture)...hence the defence of culture - as it "seems to read" that people (even in this "creative community" don't rate their own "niece"

[etc etc...] - yes, Culture should be bottom of the pile, after all, it's not worth anything is it, it's not going to do any good for anyone, just make a "few" happy they get paid to piss around (etc)...

or did I pick up on the whole "what a fucking waste of money, my lovely gardens will be destroyed" (which aren't really going to be affected if people looked at the plans) slant which seems to hint that people ARE attacking a cultural outlet as a good reason to spend money on?

How's glasgow by the way? still enjoying the culture down there?

blah fucking blah.

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[better schools] - how about some social responsibility from the house builders?

[medical facilities] - is this not the responsibility of the NHS?

[wardens - wages] - different budget

[public transport] - I'd imagine a different budget

[more affordable housing] - private houses paid for by the council?

[local charities] - hear hear - (as long as they are "valid" - eh...not poxy art & culture)...hence the defence of culture - as it "seems to read" that people (even in this "creative community" don't rate their own "niece"

[etc etc...] - yes, Culture should be bottom of the pile, after all, it's not worth anything is it, it's not going to do any good for anyone, just make a "few" happy they get paid to piss around (etc)...

or did I pick up on the whole "what a fucking waste of money, my lovely gardens will be destroyed" (which aren't really going to be affected if people looked at the plans) slant which seems to hint that people ARE attacking a cultural outlet as a good reason to spend money on?

How's glasgow by the way? still enjoying the culture down there?

blah fucking blah.

Agreed .

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is there somewhere i can read about what is involved in peacocks plans?

just interested how the space will be utilised and how it could/will benefit the community?

oh the thing i was saying about charities didnt for a second mean that arts, is any less deserving at all.

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is there somewhere i can read about what is involved in peacocks plans?

just interested how the space will be utilised and how it could/will benefit the community?

oh the thing i was saying about charities didnt for a second mean that arts, is any less deserving at all.

what? you mean apart from following all the fucking links posted in the thread so far? or (and let me guess "yes") you've just jumped into the discussion without bothering to read the discussion?

or how about looking on their website, or are we too lazy to even do that for yourself?

New Building - Peacock Visual Arts :: 01224 639539 ::

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