Jump to content
aberdeen-music
Sign in to follow this  
scott.wright

Union Terrace Gardens

Recommended Posts

Neither I, nor any other artists I know think that being an artist makes them any better than anyone else who does any other job. Art isn't elitist, it is for everyone it is there bare for all to see. Most exhibitions are free, anyone can go, and Artists want their work to be seen, that is why it is exhibited. Most people think its exclusive because they think they don't understand and people fear what they don't understand. Not everyone might get or like certain works, but not everyone likes certain types of film or music, and would you still oppose council funding for a film or music venue?

The problem is that, a film or music venue wouldnt need council funding or certainly wouldnt need constant funding. I think that is the part that is hard to see through ie, its not making money then what good is it! That is why a lot of people believe the money could be better spent elsewhere at the moment. I personally am not too sure, i mean if that money could help keep open a nursing home, or school etc, then its obvious what should take priority (to me anyway).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Neither I, nor any other artists I know think that being an artist makes them any better than anyone else who does any other job. Art isn't elitist, it is for everyone it is there bare for all to see. Most exhibitions are free, anyone can go, and Artists want their work to be seen, that is why it is exhibited. Most people think its exclusive because they think they don't understand and people fear what they don't understand. Not everyone might get or like certain works, but not everyone likes certain types of film or music, and would you still oppose council funding for a film or music venue?

Art isn't elitist but many artists are. The 'people fear what they don't understand' line must be the most overused pile of bollocks i've heard in connection with art.

I wouldn't be up nor down about council funded music or film venues, it seems to me that many of the people who feel so strongly about 'art' aren't so interested in actually making it happen themselves by whatever means, self funding etc, and just expect the council to hand over the funds for poorly run arrangements - The Lemon Tree being a case in point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Tam o' Shantie
Thing is Aberdeen does need this Art Centre, and I'm surprised that it has taken this long and still things are getting stalled. The rest of the country is moving forwards and developing their cultures and nurturing their creative industries. Glasgow has long since shed it's Industrial heritage and through artist run spaces and art centres like Transmission, Tramway, the CCA, Goma, The Modern Instutute (Among many, many more) to develop the city culturally on an international level, the Glasgow International is fast becoming one of the big global art festivals, the Edinburgh Festival is world famous, and Dundee, since the opening of the DCA is becoming more culturally creative and has become very attractive on the cultural map.

Aberdeen doesn't have any culture, because it has never needed it because of oil money keeping the economy going. But increasingly all we have are identical bars, chain shops and restraunts, with an ever decreasing signs of independence or individuality. Union Street is half-empty as shops move out into large malls or just get killed with competition from bigger stores, it isn't an attractive place for the city to be in. All you can do here is Drink, Eat or Shop. And while it has gotten by with this money-orientated culture when other cities have looked to expression, somehow the city council has lost 50million quid. (isn't it strange how Mr Wood's offer is exactly the same as the council deficit?)

Since I have come to Aberdeen, in my time at Grays as a student and now as staff I have seen dozens of incredibly talented artists pass through the school and immediatelly leave the city. They leave because there is simply nothing to keep people here, there are more opportunities to make their work and gain employment further south, for a city to expand culturally it needs creative people to make things happen, to think slightly differently, do crazy things and make the city more exciting to the benefit of all, its a difficult situation to face.

In recent years an expanding group of graduates and artists have decided to stick around, myself included, to give Aberdeen a chance because it has so much potential for cultural growth, mostly due to the whisperings that have been going around about Peacocks and the subsequent publication of the plans, but also because of initiatives like Project Slogan which have sprung up due to the increasing number of artists, but if this project falls through we all loose. If the Art Centre doesnt happen in Union Terrace gardens it is unlikelly to happen anywhere else, and Peacocks will probably cease to exist. Without an organisation of Peacocks level committed to the furthering of contemporary art the structure of the little scene we are building here will fall apart.

But then again maybe I am wrong and maybe people who say we don't need an Art Centre are right. And you know, probably for the next few years Aberdeen will continue to do pretty well on the black gold. But when the oil industry has sucked the city dry and moved on what exactly will there be left? The artists will probably all have gone south finally listening to that instruction I've seen many times on these boards for outsiders "if you don't like it: LEAVE!"

quoted for truth. well done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
................................etc.

wow.

just one point dave....IT'S THE COUNCIL THAT SOLD THE COUNCIL HOUSES TO RAISE MONEY THEY PISSED UP A WALL.

I don't like blue - so I am not going to pay my council tax.

I thought I'd be as relevant as your argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...but the Arts Centre strikes me as being destined to be a funded hang out for a few persons with a superiority complex because they make films of themselves chucking bits of paper about or suchlike. See Belmont Cinema/Kilau thread and associated attitudes....

Ooh!...he's talking about me!

yas, I am one of the Elite (sorry, Poor elite, you know, the kunts that aren't allowed to care, because we can't chuck money at people - "just bits of paper".)

you wonder why "we" resort to having a rant now and again.

go read your sun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wouldn't be up nor down about council funded music or film venues, it seems to me that many of the people who feel so strongly about 'art' aren't so interested in actually making it happen themselves by whatever means, self funding etc, and just expect the council to hand over the funds for poorly run arrangements - The Lemon Tree being a case in point.

really?

wow. I'd like to see your research.

I fear you might not know what you are talking about.

I fear you might not know any artists that have started their own initiatives and paid for pretty much everything themselves (as usual).

I fear you might be thinking up answers without facts to satisfy how you think artists work

I just think, you don't know much, and coming on a messageboard and spouting off if easy for you.

please give us a list of 10 projects that "just expect the council to hand over the funds for poorly run arrangements"...and the council were partly responsible for the lemon tree, so they (or you) shot themselves in the foot there.

I do see a picture of Aberdonians not caring about anything other than sucking up to rich oil men, so no wonder they don't want something that's fuck all to do with it.

I do see that the level of journalism from our local papers (calling councillors "neeps" for example) perhaps dictates the level of debate we aim at. Perhaps the NE should be devoid of any form of self-generated "modern" culture - us pretentious tossers should bugger off to London eh, where all the other wankers are. While you suck up to rich oil bosses...and wave goodbye when it's gone and get back to drinking, smoking and err....um....err....waiting for the weekend to...err....drink and err....

I believe that Aberdeen has the talent to be a place to be creative, to make new ideas to evolve our understanding of the world and our place in it, to lead culturally, to inspire others to design and create new things - to see different paths through difficult times of resource depletion and climate change...hold on!...they are all hippy ideas! no wonder such stiffly conservative people don't want us here!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
wow.

just one point dave....IT'S THE COUNCIL THAT SOLD THE COUNCIL HOUSES TO RAISE MONEY THEY PISSED UP A WALL.

I don't like blue - so I am not going to pay my council tax.

I thought I'd be as relevant as your argument.

Can I please suggest if you can't make a constructive reply then you don't bother replying at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can I please suggest if you can't make a constructive reply then you don't bother replying at all?

you are on my case anyway, so I wouldn't expect you to think that telling someone who thinks there should be more council houses (and I do too), that the people selling the bloody things...are the council.

so putting into the mix a suggestion that instead of spending money on arts centres, the council perhaps think about housing (when they are getting rid of them), I thought, merited that post.

and as for the "I don't want to pay my council tax because I want a new 42" tv - different budget", does dave get the same warning?...I didn't think so.

How's glasgow? still not answered that one yet.

PS, why not just delete my post like I've had happen a few times in the past, without warning if you think I am full of shit and have nothing to say (that you like).

Fuck me, I hate it when you make me sound like Stripey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How's glasgow? still not answered that one yet.

I haven't answered it because it doesn't warrant a response - not least because it's completely irrelevant to this discussion. But as you're so insistent, Glasgow is great thanks. It helps the council down here appear to be a bit better at balancing their books and this probably explains why I'm paying a less council tax than I was in Aberdeen even though I'm living in a bigger flat and on my own. I pay less for public transport as well (I'm a bit of a hippy as well you know - I don't drive). I'm also surrounded by quite a few decent, privately run art and photography galleries down here in the Merchant City. Aberdeen's got some of those as well y'know. As surprisingly as it might sound, I even sometimes go into these galleries and buy art. Shock, horror.

PS, why not just delete my post like I've had happen a few times in the past, without warning if you think I am full of shit and have nothing to say (that you like).

I've never deleted any of your posts from what I can recall. Care to give me an example?

So from reading your barrage of recent replies can we safely assume that you value new art and culture facilities above all other things in a city? Because that's the impression you're giving. I think you're just going to have to accept that some people (probably the majority of people in Aberdeen) don't think that this new centre is the best use of public money. You can argue about budgets all you like, but that's missing the point.

I'll happily stick a poll up about this on the web site if people want? Might be interesting to see the result. Although no doubt you'll accuse me of fixing the result anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It helps the council down here appear to be a bit better at balancing their books and this probably explains why I'm paying a less council tax than I was in Aberdeen even though I'm living in a bigger flat and on my own. I pay less for public transport as well (I'm a bit of a hippy as well you know - I don't drive).

Nothing to do with more people paying more council tax then or more people using public transport ergo lowering costs or even closer, more populated areas making cheaper public transport viable? it's actually hard to know where this is all going, is this a council bashing? or an art centre bashing?...

as I thought some of us were here to remind us all that we are on a music forum - aka a place that is based on a care for "the arts" - and I have to say, I am very surprised by a lot of people here that seem to forget that.

and yes - the majority here apparently think the art centre is shite (even if they don't know anything about it!) and yes, the majority want rich white boys to dangle money in their faces and think they will all be better off (spiritually? mentally? financially?) etc.

I get fired up about this shit because I fucking care - and I am fed up of people who apparently don't care (enough to even look at some evidence or even speak to people that do) coming on and spouting off shite as if it was the truth. And as for people who left Aberdeen because there was fuck all here for them (no?) coming here and telling me how my city should be in their eyes, is just hypocritical - so my question, "how is Glasgow" is very relevant.

If the last part of my wee rant is unfair not ture or made up, I can only but apologise, but several people have even stated they dont know anything. And as for Mr Godzilla bringing me personally into a statement about artists not doing anything to raise funds / finance themselves (seeing as it was my artwork he was referring to) I think I have every right to respond angrily.

Now, If only we could all find something we agree on, we can all go skiing with each other.

as for deleting posts, I have no idea who did it - but you are the boss of this place are you not? as for what they were?....inconsiquential pish most probably, but it's still editing and censorship! (but, you've probably got a clause in the rules that states "don't waste KBs with shite jokes").....that was a shite joke, if you didn't see it like that.

I promise to type no more on this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The reason i posted that previous comment is that you seem really pissed off with things! (life?)

i just dont get all this putting down comments that dont agree with yours, by trying to insult people!

the forums are for people to express opinions? you dont promote a great advert for the development!

but hey, thats just my opinion.

too fucking right i'm fucked off. I've lived + worked in some major art loving capitals around the world and thought by coming here there'd be chance to build upon all the benefits the arts sector can bring to a population's prosperity, education and well-being.. but right now i'd happily leave you all to Primark asphalt hell

and if you want to see me properly insulting i'll gladly abide but i ain't currently saying anything i wouldn't to your face over a friendly, if somewhat strained, pint... unfortunately some folk are bleating out the same ill-thought auto responses every time so ignore me all you like if you wish... even better ban me from wasting my time on here

i'm sorry if my passion for wanting to live in a city that actually has the desire to achieve great things means my frustration boils over when i see blatant mediocrity, but hey fuck it we're all different aren't we?

Dave, Neil etc... pick your amazing Daily Heil holes in every word the art backers in here say but the peacock plan HAS been approved so i don't know why we're covering old ground (although you're efffin good at it) when the real discussion should still be about the smokescreen/blackmail Sir Ian Wood sent out this week

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The problem is that, a film or music venue wouldnt need council funding or certainly wouldnt need constant funding. I think that is the part that is hard to see through ie, its not making money then what good is it! That is why a lot of people believe the money could be better spent elsewhere at the moment. I personally am not too sure, i mean if that money could help keep open a nursing home, or school etc, then its obvious what should take priority (to me anyway).

please please please have the decency to know, at least remotely, what your are talking about before typing drifting, speculative, lazy nonsense

my land lady would have chucked you out for this... and spanked you as your modern studies jotter flopped out from your spice girls satchel

I promise to type no more on this thread.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
too fucking right i'm fucked off. I've lived + worked in some major art loving capitals around the world and thought by coming here there'd be chance to build upon all the benefits the arts sector can bring to a population's prosperity, education and well-being.. but right now i'd happily leave you all to Primark asphalt hell

Which capitals, out of interest? and why did you think a small, provincial oil city would be a great place to come and develop an arts sector? o_O Capital cities (or at least big cities) have the population to support big art (or whatever minority interest) scenes. I'm also of the opinion that Aberdeen just doesn't have enough people interested in art to justify huge public spending on a facility like this, especially when, for example, it's public transport is so crap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
please please please have the decency to know, at least remotely, what your are talking about before typing drifting, speculative, lazy nonsense

my land lady would have chucked you out for this... and spanked you as your modern studies jotter flopped out from your spice girls satchel

I promise to type no more on this thread.

so are you saying that it will support itself? if you had actually taken the time to read my posts you would see they arent speculative, lazy nonsense! and i have admitted every time i`m not sure of something. and more often asked the question (to you arty types) and got petty abuse in return!!! basically saying that i know fuck all about it! and your right i do know fuck all about your type of art but i have been involved in music and the theatre for over 20 years now, so i know a bit about that! and the work involved in keeping it running. but saying that we are funded by that black stuff and those rich people involved in it so you could say we are funded by the devil!!!

"mr council can we get some money too?"

P.S. cant wait for that pint! i`m buying:up:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The problem is that, a film or music venue wouldnt need council funding or certainly wouldnt need constant funding.

Yeah, because The Lemon Tree, Music Hall and Belmont Cinema don't recieve constant funding from the council.

Oh wait, they do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Glasgow is great thanks. It helps the council down here appear to be a bit better at balancing their books and this probably explains why I'm paying a less council tax than I was in Aberdeen even though I'm living in a bigger flat and on my own. I pay less for public transport as well (I'm a bit of a hippy as well you know - I don't drive).

A quick lesson in local government finance -

Only a small percentage of a council's budget is raised by council tax. The vast majority cmes from the Scottish Government in the form of a block grant.

However, the Scottish Government doesn't give each council the SAME grant. They have a complicated formula to work out how much each council should get, which takes into account various factors, including relative deprivation and the number of school children.

Aberdeen fares very badly on both of these points. In fact, this year Aberdeen recieved the very lowest grant from the Scottish Government. If you work it out by head of population, each person in Aberdeen recieves around around 600 LESS than each person in Glasgow (I don't have the figures in front of me at the moment, so this is from memory).

If you multiply this 600 by the 200,000 people in Aberdeen, you will see that if Aberdeen was funded in the same way that Glasgow is, the council would get an additional 120 million - EACH YEAR!

Even if we got the Scottish average we would be about 60 million a year better off.

So it's easy to see why your council tax is cheaper in Glasgow.

Oh and on public transport, it's not really anything to do with the council, it's a simple case of there being competition in Glasgow and Edinburgh, whereas First have a monopoly in Aberdeen and can charge whatever the fuck they want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Lemon tree and The Music Hall are owned by the council - we all know what happened to the lemon tree, so under aberdeen performing arts management - set up to run the likes of the music hall, and his majestys,, hopefully things will improve. the belmont is also run on behalf of the city council.

They recieve funding obviously because the council own these places, so they will pay to maintain the buildings. other than that they must pay for themselves or face the consequences, i realise that the music hall would never be allowed to die but as far as i am aware, it does okay and is continuing to attract more and more touring artists.

but if you look at previous posts then i mentioned the lemon tree as an example of what i would hate to see happening with a new arts centre, especially built where it is planned to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
to clarify peacock is a non for profit organisation that is mainly funded through the scottish arts council (your pocket as you rightly say) + has been for decades, however

So if they're so heavily reliant on SAC funding, what happens if SAC subsequently pull the plug for whatever reason?

It would seem that by having Peacock own the building, they're leaving themselves the very real/scary possibility of the building closing up because of the operators not having the funding to do so. Imagine having a closed giant white elephant in the centre of the city, because the decision makers elsewhere decided it thus?

Clever move by Peacock - they know fine well that the council will be forced to maintain their existence, simply because of the political cost of closing their centre.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BLAH BLAH, I'M A PRETENTIOUS WANKER, BLAH BLAH, SUN READING KNUCKLE DRAGGING SCUM KNOW SHIT, BLAH BLAH, OIL MEN ARE EVIL, BLAH BLAH, I'M AN ARTIST YOU KNOW, BLAH BLAH

No wonder you are being treated like Stripey, you are acting like him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
please please please have the decency to know, at least remotely, what your are talking about before typing drifting, speculative, lazy nonsense

my land lady would have chucked you out for this... and spanked you as your modern studies jotter flopped out from your spice girls satchel

I promise to type no more on this thread.

haha your making yourself out to look like a wee lap dog for lepeep!

probably wise you dont type anymore on this thread because you wont have anything to copy from!

and anyway you really should get back to cleaning his paint brushes.:gringo:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whew, getting a bit warm in here, eh? Chill jist for a minute, a'bdy.

I see several threads developing here; should the Cooncil hand over money for something 'arty', should they do it in UTG, and WTF has Ian Wood been smoking?

Bumping our gums about 'budgets' is pointless, the council are responsible for the money they get (or don't) and for planning what to do with it. If the law means they can't use 'capital' to pay for personal care, then that's that, but who the hell worked out how much they needed for all the stuff they've closed/cancelled/stopped paying for etc. etc?

I think we can all take it as read that the elected members ACC are a circus of useless incompetents backed up by a rabble of self-serving buffoons masquerading as council officials who, speaking personally, I wouldn't trust to run a bath. Bemusement is the only word that fits when this bunch talk about the 'crisis' facing the council, i.e. the folks in Aberdeen, as though it was an act of a spiteful god, not the result of decades of mind-boggling incompetence on their part.

I have no problems with PVA getting the funding from 'another' budget, but to announce that they were broke and were no longer going to fund dozens of voluntary groups doing valuable work in the local community, close down amenities like libraries, swimming pools and ice rinks, then hand over 3 mill for a project which many (rightly or wrongly) see as elitist, shows a staggering lack of awareness on their part.

And I like UTG the way they are, but minus the winos, junkies, assorted neds, minks and the all-pervading smell of pish. Bring back the SPG.

But that's jist me.

Oh, and Ian Wood's jist nae wyse...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

christ, i can't believe the hostility towards the arts centre. as some folk have pointed out it will bring aberdeen that little bit further into the present by getting this. we're so far behind the rest of the country and the world culturally it's ridiculous and we need to get out of this mad focus on oil and shops and start educating and creating!

yes the council is short of cash and closing schools and that's fucking shit. it's terrifying and i have no idea what's going to happen to aberdeen in the next ten years. i do know that building a glorified patio over union terrace gardens with a shrine to ian wood in the centre isn't going to solve those problems and neither is more shops. peacock isn't going to solve those problems either but it will give the north-east(and further afield) some cultural focus and potentially do some good for the city.

but if folk would rather live in a one horse hick town pining over oil then that's fine. i thought this was a forum full of creative people who had some imagination but evidently we're mistaken. PVA is something positive in a city full of lots of negatives right now, shouldn't we support this?

there was a letter in the EE last week saying they'd rather have sir ian woods 'vision' rather than something 'arty farty'. that made me laugh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree
christ, i can't believe the hostility towards the arts centre. as some folk have pointed out it will bring aberdeen that little bit further into the present by getting this. we're so far behind the rest of the country and the world culturally it's ridiculous and we need to get out of this mad focus on oil and shops and start educating and creating!

yes the council is short of cash and closing schools and that's fucking shit. it's terrifying and i have no idea what's going to happen to aberdeen in the next ten years. i do know that building a glorified patio over union terrace gardens with a shrine to ian wood in the centre isn't going to solve those problems and neither is more shops. peacock isn't going to solve those problems either but it will give the north-east(and further afield) some cultural focus and potentially do some good for the city.

but if folk would rather live in a one horse hick town pining over oil then that's fine. i thought this was a forum full of creative people who had some imagination but evidently we're mistaken. PVA is something positive in a city full of lots of negatives right now, shouldn't we support this?

there was a letter in the EE last week saying they'd rather have sir ian woods 'vision' rather than something 'arty farty'. that made me laugh.

That last line sums up so many people's view though, unfortunately :down:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As has been stated elsewhere the new art centre was approved!!!! Debating the pros and cons of spending money on the new building has come and gone, move on folks.

Sott Begbie had a good piece that summed it up very very well in the EE yesterday.:up:

Have heard told that the Wood Square could cost in the region of 300million to complete. So only a short fall of a few million to be found from public and private coffers eh

The man himslef and anyone suggesting and agreeing this is a good idea and should happen are clearly dillusional.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...