Leaking Albums

[RF Scott]

A band I know down in these parts is signed to 4AD, and someone from within the label actually uploaded and leaked their debut album before it was released.

SOMEONE FROM THE ACTUAL LABEL.

Flabbergasting.

Don't know anything about that case, but should point out that the people at 4AD/Beggars are some of the nicest/most-caring-about-music people I've encountered, so I'm sure that if that was the case, it was an isolated incident!

[RF Scott]

As I said before, not entirely sure I care if it becomes a cottage industry. Some of my favourite artists can't afford to tour as it is and don't make their income primarily from their work. So many acts are both mediocre musicians and artists despite it supposedly being their full time job.

When I lived in the UK I didn't download anything, but I only occasionally bought music after I became a student. Where I live now I doubt there are any legitimate copies of anything in the country.

Some of my favourite artists/acts are in the same boat, but a lot aren't too. If it becomes a cottage industry, it's not just a lack of touring, but;

- the threat of pressing plants closing (nowhere to press vinyl, hooray!)

- quality of recording decreasing VASTLY

- recording/practice studios closing

- definitely the nail on the coffin for record stores, and a threat to online music stores too.

- (further) closure of music venues

- bit of a guess this one, but the musical instrument industry would suffer.

Lesser quality goods as a result?

So many aspects of 'music' that people would surely miss when severely limited or eradicated.

It comes down to - if you don't support something, it doesn't continue. Worth noting when considering this that the recorded music industry and live music industry are fairly separate. Downloading a band's output instead of paying for it and then buying a ticket to a gig doesn't mean (in most cases) that you're putting money back into the same place that you've taken out of.

Your point about mediocre musicians is completely subjective, so doesn't really apply.

Where do you live? I'm sure the vast majority of places can be reached by post these days?

[scottyboy]

Only some at the present time, but if music did become a cottage industry they would make music just the same and put it out for free. Yes the quality of the recordings might suffer but I'm a bit an audio philistine and I can't see that mega bucks studio recordings are sufficiently superior to stuff made at home by someone who knows what they're doing to warrant all the extra cost.

*With regards to record stores, they're an obsolete business and I can't see that downloaders would miss them.

*Musicianship is not "completely subjective" (I wouldn't say artistic merit isn't either but I'll leave that), at most it is partially subjective and I would think pretty objective.

*I don't think the music instrument industry would suffer all that much. Most Les Pauls are probably sold to middle age hobbyists, not rock stars. Fewer instruments would be sold on the basis of rock star endorsements but I can't see that as a bad thing.

I live in Vietnam. Having any kind of luxury goods posted here would entail paying bribes (sorry "taxes") to get hold of them, if one is lucky enough not to have them stolen outright in the first place.

[Bigsby]

Only some at the present time, but if music did become a cottage industry they would make music just the same and put it out for free. Yes the quality of the recordings might suffer but I'm a bit an audio philistine and I can't see that mega bucks studio recordings are sufficiently superior to stuff made at home by someone who knows what they're doing to warrant all the extra cost.

Most of the artists I listen to don't sell huge amounts anyway so i don't imagine they spend a fortune on the recording process. Steve Earle's albums for example sell about 200,000 copies every time.

In terms of record shops, these are two different arguments. Like it or not, optical media is on the way out, not just for music but for films also. My DVD player is more or less obsolete now and I stream films wirelessly from a hard drive. This will become the norm, for music as well, I have no doubt about it.

So there are two sides to it

1. Getting people to pay for it

2. What product the people paying for it are going to get. I predict that within 20 years optical media such as CDs, Blu Rays whatever will be a niche market for hobbyists in the same way that vinyl is now. The masses will have their media stored on a hard drive of some description.

[Free Korps]

i am amused that you could buy one of my bands CDs on eBay from someone that clearly sells all the samplers they receive, with over 24,000 on sale at the moment!

rather than these samplers why not give journalists secure password protected time limited access to streaming of new albums? surely the technology exists to do this.

and if you really wanted to catch out the source of a leak why not send out copies of new promo album with tiny noise in there that could uniquely identify the copy number used in the copy. again if you wanted to be that careful you'd be able to drop some in some reference that wouldn't be heard on initial/normal listens to album but could be boosted up and heard clearly if you knew where to listen.

[Bigsby]

rather than these samplers why not give journalists secure password protected time limited access to streaming of new albums? surely the technology exists to do this.

and if you really wanted to catch out the source of a leak why not send out copies of new promo album with tiny noise in there that could uniquely identify the copy number used in the copy. again if you wanted to be that careful you'd be able to drop some in some reference that wouldn't be heard on initial/normal listens to album but could be boosted up and heard clearly if you knew where to listen.

On the first one, I'm sure it does, but it also exists to make it possible to make a recording of the stream, upload it etc.

Second one is no doubt possible, but Jesus, what a hassle.

[RF Scott]

Only some at the present time, but if music did become a cottage industry they would make music just the same and put it out for free. Yes the quality of the recordings might suffer but I'm a bit an audio philistine and I can't see that mega bucks studio recordings are sufficiently superior to stuff made at home by someone who knows what they're doing to warrant all the extra cost.

You'd need to know what your'e doing, to begin with, and not every artist knows how to go about a successful recording session. Otherwise I'd imagine most would already be doing this for released recordings (as opposed to demos). It also costs money to buy and maintain decent studio equipment!

*With regards to record stores, they're an obsolete business and I can't see that downloaders would miss them.

Well obviously downloaders wouldn't miss them, being that they're downloaders, but a lot of people would and it'd certainly be a negative knock-on effect. They're not an obsolete business, either. Sure some are closing down, but I find that the ones which are were lazy anyway. Rough Trade is a great example, having OPENED a new store in recent years.

*Musicianship is not "completely subjective" (I wouldn't say artistic merit isn't either but I'll leave that), at most it is partially subjective and I would think pretty objective.

I would say that it is, but appreciate that others don't! For example, I think that Vic Chesnutt's guitar playing is a lot better than someone like Slash, but would agree to an extent that Slash is more technically gifted! Guess it just comes down to semantics.

*I don't think the music instrument industry would suffer all that much. Most Les Pauls are probably sold to middle age hobbyists, not rock stars. Fewer instruments would be sold on the basis of rock star endorsements but I can't see that as a bad thing.

Les Pauls, maybe not, but you'd certainly find a dip in the P.A, consumables (drumsticks, leads), and mid range guitars that most bands take out on tour.

I live in Vietnam. Having any kind of luxury goods posted here would entail paying bribes (sorry "taxes") to get hold of them, if one is lucky enough not to have them stolen outright in the first place.

I live in Stonehaven and am convinced that my postman/woman steals the odd record that doesn't arrive, so can sympathise! Surely you could subscribe to a download provider such as emusic, or buy MP3s from Amazon? It's not expensive at all and there can't really be any arguments about fidelity these days (though you said earlier that this doesn't matter so a moot point in this case!)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[RF Scott]

i am amused that you could buy one of my bands CDs on eBay from someone that clearly sells all the samplers they receive, with over 24,000 on sale at the moment!

Yep I've had promos of stuff I've done in the past taken down from eBay.

rather than these samplers why not give journalists secure password protected time limited access to streaming of new albums? surely the technology exists to do this.

Similar practises are becoming more common!

and if you really wanted to catch out the source of a leak why not send out copies of new promo album with tiny noise in there that could uniquely identify the copy number used in the copy. again if you wanted to be that careful you'd be able to drop some in some reference that wouldn't be heard on initial/normal listens to album but could be boosted up and heard clearly if you knew where to listen.

This already happens and has been used to trace those that leak albums! People have lost jobs, and good riddance.

message too shortttttttt

[RF Scott]

Most of the artists I listen to don't sell huge amounts anyway so i don't imagine they spend a fortune on the recording process. Steve Earle's albums for example sell about 200,000 copies every time.

If you're selling 200,000 copies of your album you'll certainly be able to spend five figures on the recording process.

[Bigsby]

Surely you could subscribe to a download provider such as emusic, or buy MP3s from Amazon? It's not expensive at all and there can't really be any arguments about fidelity these days (though you said earlier that this doesn't matter so a moot point in this case!)

Mmm, you can actually, I'm happy enough with 320kb MP3s, but some people like to pretend they can tell the difference and demand lossless stuff like FLAC.

[RF Scott]

Mmm, you can actually, I'm happy enough with 320kb MP3s, but some people like to pretend they can tell the difference and demand lossless stuff like FLAC.

Sorry I should have been clearer - what I mean is that when iTunes started offering downloads, the quality was below that of a CD, whereas these days not only are most (all?) providers offering DRM-free downloads, but in a range of formats - 320kb MP3, FLAC et al - so the argument that paying for downloads is a rip off based on the quality is no longer valid!

[scottyboy]

I'll agree to disagree on most of that, but to clarify: when I said "musicianship" I meant technical proficiency. When you say Chesnutt is better you mean it's more enjoyable, or has more artistic merit, or whatever; whatever one cares to call either there's a difference. I sort of assumed that one of the main arguments for popular musicians having to remain professional would be to do with having to practise (technique, not writing songs) a lot, but on reflection I guess most people couldn't care less about technical ability.

[jon]

Technical ability is all well and good, but songs are foremost. Also, you can practise your instrument at home, like I would imagine 99.9% of all musicians, amateur or pro, do regardless. When you pay for practise, you generally pay for band practise rather than individual instrumental rehearsal. Unless you like Steve Vai/are a drummer in a flat/are rich.

I hate watching boring technically proficient shit. I prefer shambling passion to click track precision any day of the week. Of course, there's a happy medium.

[Larsen B]

i am amused that you could buy one of my bands CDs on eBay from someone that clearly sells all the samplers they receive, with over 24,000 on sale at the moment!

rather than these samplers why not give journalists secure password protected time limited access to streaming of new albums? surely the technology exists to do this.

and if you really wanted to catch out the source of a leak why not send out copies of new promo album with tiny noise in there that could uniquely identify the copy number used in the copy. again if you wanted to be that careful you'd be able to drop some in some reference that wouldn't be heard on initial/normal listens to album but could be boosted up and heard clearly if you knew where to listen.

I received promos in journalistic capacity. I'd say it's pretty evenly split between download links, streaming sites like soundcloud and actual physical copies. It suprises me that labels/PRs still want to send out physical copies, but most seem quite relaxed about it. Only CD that's ever come with much of a warning attached was the last Bassment Jaxx albums, with a whole schtick about it being traceable etc. It's disappointing that journalists would want to leak stuff, but not everybody is a sinless as myself. I'd still hate to see this practice stopped generally though, because I think musical journalism is important, partly because I'm full of my own self-importance of course.

[waltz]

I received promos in journalistic capacity. I'd say it's pretty evenly split between download links, streaming sites like soundcloud and actual physical copies. It suprises me that labels/PRs still want to send out physical copies, but most seem quite relaxed about it. Only CD that's ever come with much of a warning attached was the last Bassment Jaxx albums, with a whole schtick about it being traceable etc. It's disappointing that journalists would want to leak stuff, but not everybody is a sinless as myself. I'd still hate to see this practice stopped generally though, because I think musical journalism is important, partly because I'm full of my own self-importance of course.

I get CDs to review as well, seemingly I get more warning on mine! A lot of them are watermarked and traceable now. I can't imagine why a journalist would want to leak an album unless they had a chip on their shoulder, which would be easier to convey through writing, surely...?

[Free Korps]

message too shortttttttt

ha ha, it was sitting on my pc all afternoon unfinished so just ended up posting it before i left.

i do realise that you can record off the streaming of audio but it's a hell of a lot easier for average joe to rip a CD.

RF Scott - did you do the Report Item thing through eBay to remove the listings of your promos and they did it quickly? What options did you choose?

I also find it amusing the guy wants to charge 50p more for a used promo!

free korps items - Get great deals on CD Promos items on eBay.co.uk Shops!

can also see on the scanned in cover the small print on the bottom. "For promotional use only, not for resale"

[RF Scott]

ha ha, it was sitting on my pc all afternoon unfinished so just ended up posting it before i left.

i do realise that you can record off the streaming of audio but it's a hell of a lot easier for average joe to rip a CD.

RF Scott - did you do the Report Item thing through eBay to remove the listings of your promos and they did it quickly? What options did you choose?

I also find it amusing the guy wants to charge 50p more for a used promo!

free korps items - Get great deals on CD Promos items on eBay.co.uk Shops!

can also see on the scanned in cover the small print on the bottom. "For promotional use only, not for resale"

Oh no, I was typing the message too short bit because typing in a quote doesn't contribute to the word count apparently.

I just contacted the sellers directly and asked them politely to take it down. They all did apart from one chump who then got a less polite reply. It came down very soon after that.