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Leaking Albums

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People who leak albums are bastards, aren't they? Or are people somehow entitled to music they haven't bought/been offered for free by the band?

nous aimons danser|why leaks are ruining music

Thoughts?

Am I right?

Am I off the mark entirely?

Am I bastard?

Should all albums be free?

Are musicians bad people?

Are labels bad people?

Am I a band?

Am I a 'filthy capitalist' who should 'get a clue' [via downloading a leak]?

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in a ideal world leaking would not be a problem, poeple would download the album/film etc to see if they like it and if they do then they would buy it, however often this is not the case.

but this is less of a problem with music than it is with films, as with films you get a vast number of bootleggers who take advantage of this free resource to make money from less savey people by selling knock off dvds to them.

and proliferation of knock off dvd's is not something that just happens in shady back alleys, ive seen knock off dvds being sold and traded on oil rigs and no attempt is made to hide it what so ever, ive even seen pirate films being used in rigs cinemas and tv channels.

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I think people just don't really believe in intellectual property with respect to music (and arts in general) beyond the right to be recognised as the author of one's work. I also don't see that a capitalist should be on the side of record companies. It's clear that even without the ability to make a profit people will still make music; god knows how many amateur musicians with day jobs invest in professional standard equipment, record, produce and even master their music without the support of big record labels. I believe that when/if record labels all cease to exist great music will still get made, even if it's not particularly lucrative.

That's perhaps not so much pertinent to leaking as downloading in general.

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Sometimes bands leak material which people will think is their new album, but is actually just a load of inaudible, unlistenable nonsense, just to be a right cunt. I dig that.

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Sometimes bands leak their own albums to get a bit of feedback from fans early and to get the word on the street a bit earlier.

Yes, but I wasn't writing about those bands.

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Yes, but I wasn't writing about those bands.

No, but you were. Either that or your postulations under the link to your webshite/blog make no sense.

Are musicians bad people?

Are labels bad people?

Stop talking shite. :up:

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I download an album if I'm unsure of whether I'm going to like it or not. If I like it then I buy it, and if I don't then I don't. I'd rather do that than spend money on something that I might think is bobbins.

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No, but you were. Either that or your postulations under the link to your webshite/blog make no sense.

Stop talking shite. :up:

Okay, the second questioning bit was clearly in jest (and a parody of a site I thought some might appreciate).

Do you have to bring yr negative shit into every thread? It's really boring.

Oh, and 'webshite'? Are you 9 years old?

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I download an album if I'm unsure of whether I'm going to like it or not. If I like it then I buy it, and if I don't then I don't. I'd rather do that than spend money on something that I might think is bobbins.

Yeah, but that's not how music works. Do you not find that totally unethical?

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Okay, the second questioning bit was clearly in jest (and a parody of a site I thought some might appreciate).

Do you have to bring yr negative shit into every thread? It's really boring.

Oh, and 'webshite'? Are you 9 years old?

Why bother asking for an opinion at all? If you don't like the answer to a question, don't bother asking for it. You wanted opinions, i offered up a little bit of a side thought to yours. I don't recall saying your opinion was wrong.

Do you have to bring your pretentious shit into every thread? It's really boring.

That was a casual comment about your webshite, in a kinda jokey way that was clearly in jest (and in keeping with the general tone of this webshite).

Dry your eyes.

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Yeah, but that's not how music works. Do you not find that totally unethical? Art's made for the reaction, not so people like it.

I'm not sure I get your point. So I should always be satisfied with an album purchase, regardless of whether I enjoyed the music or not, because it triggered a reaction?

I think I'm similar to Paranoid Android. I like the idea of your argument, but I find it financially impractical.

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Why bother asking for an opinion at all? If you don't like the answer to a question, don't bother asking for it. You wanted opinions, i offered up a little bit of a side thought to yours. I don't recall saying your opinion was wrong.

Do you have to bring your pretentious shit into every thread? It's really boring.

That was a casual comment about your webshite, in a kinda jokey way that was clearly in jest (and in keeping with the general tone of this webshite).

Dry your eyes.

My eyes are completely dry...

I was implying that I didn't write about bands who wanted their album to leaked. Can you actually cite examples of bands that do this? I was talking about the negative effects of illegal distribution, and you went off on one about 'webshites'.

There's a difference between an actual constructive opinion and one without any background information, or some kind of 'witty' follow-up to get a reaction.

I'm not angry, you just made a really strange point and then attacked the blog for no particular reason.

Murrr:

of course you shouldn't be happy if a record's bad. But you can return it if you've bought it. With an illegal download, the damage is done, you can't exactly 'unhear' a recording you weren't entitled to in the first place.

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of course you shouldn't be happy if a record's bad. But you can return it if you've bought it. With an illegal download, the damage is done, you can't exactly 'unhear' a recording you weren't entitled to in the first place.

To be honest, I'm nowhere near as interested in musical ethics as I was when I was a bit younger. There was a time when I'd have completely agreed with your viewpoint, and I used to bug the shit out of my friends by telling them how evil they were for downloading music, but not any more. Is my stance unethical? Yes. I'm not going to dispute that, but I'm also not going to apologise for it.

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Yeah, but that's not how music works. Do you not find that totally unethical?

For millions of people these days, that's exactly how it works. In fact, for millions of people it works differently, if they like it, they keep it, if they donn't they delete it, either way, they don't pay for it.

To answer your specific question about leaking, meh, it's the record companies' fault for burying their heads in the sand about the realities of technology and continuing to send preview copies of albums out to journalists months before release dates. Then they get surprised when it's all over the web.

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For millions of people these days, that's exactly how it works. In fact, for millions of people it works differently, if they like it, they keep it, if they donn't they delete it, either way, they don't pay for it.

To answer your specific question about leaking, meh, it's the record companies' fault for burying their heads in the sand about the realities of technology and continuing to send preview copies of albums out to journalists months before release dates. Then they get surprised when it's all over the web.

Not surprised so much as annoyed. I see yr point but how is this meant to be regulated? CDs are already 'watermarked' to prevent leaks but it's clearly not working...

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Not surprised so much as annoyed. I see yr point but how is this meant to be regulated? CDs are already 'watermarked' to prevent leaks but it's clearly not working...

Well if it's the leaking element you are particularly bothered about then it's fairly simple, don't send out preview copies of the album. But if I could think of a way to stop "illegal" downloading in general then I would be a very rich man indeed.

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Well if it's the leaking element you are particularly bothered about then it's fairly simple, don't send out preview copies of the album.

Well, that'd have huge ramifications on music journalism, and would potentially have as big an effect on sales as a leak... vicious circle really.

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Well, that'd have huge ramifications on music journalism, and would potentially have as big an effect on sales as a leak... vicious circle really.

Not really, just give it to journalists on release day, the only ones this would affect would be the monthly magazines which are becoming increasingly irrelevent anyway. The record company could arrange a listening session for them at their offices, same as movie reviewers have to do, they don't get sent a DVD of Toy Story 3.

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Not really, just give it to journalists on release day, the only ones this would affect would be the monthly magazines which are becoming increasingly irrelevent anyway. The record company could arrange a listening session for them at their offices, same as movie reviewers have to do, they don't get sent a DVD of Toy Story 3.

'Increasingly irrelevant'? Even though they're selling less they're still very widely read and relied upon for coverage. Even independent magazines like The Fly have around 100,000 monthly readers! It seems grossly unfair for the readers of magazines and the reviewers have to lose out, as well as the labels who would have to rush advertising and press - a lot of which relies on journalistic coverage - because one or two people have leaked the record. I really don't understand that viewpoint.

And having talked to music writers, I gather that listening sessions are quite unpopular as a concept. On the topic of film reviews, that's an entirely different medium and I'd be extremely hesitant to compare them to writing about music, personally.

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'Increasingly irrelevant'? Even though they're selling less they're still very widely read and relied upon for coverage. Even independent magazines like The Fly have around 100,000 monthly readers! It seems grossly unfair for the readers of magazines and the reviewers have to lose out, as well as the labels who would have to rush advertising and press - a lot of which relies on journalistic coverage - because one or two people have leaked the record. I really don't understand that viewpoint.

And having talked to music writers, I gather that listening sessions are quite unpopular as a concept. On the topic of film reviews, that's an entirely different medium and I'd be extremely hesitant to compare them to writing about music, personally.

Of course they are unpopular, as it means more hassle for them and they don't get the kudos of being able to tell all their mates that they have a copy of Jedward's new album two months before release date. But if they are serious about putting an end to leaking then it's necessary.

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For millions of people these days, that's exactly how it works. In fact, for millions of people it works differently, if they like it, they keep it, if they donn't they delete it, either way, they don't pay for it.

Also, there's alot of very small labels releasing music digitally for free, but suggesting that if you did actually like it, then donate whatever you see fit to them, via Paypal or whatever. So perhaps, that's how music is going to work from now on? At least on an low level independent basis anyway.

When I was young, I'd buy CD's and records on a whim, because of who the band were associated with; labels, ex members, artwork etc. It's quite exciting, but a little bit of a waste of it turns out to be pants. I don't do it much these days, unless it's from a cheap second hand section or if it's less than a couple of quid on Amazon Marketplace.

I don't really want to buy records I'm not going to like. A recent example being the new Melvins record. I love the Melvins. I have all their albums, and I like just about all of them. I noticed the new one was on Spotify before it actually came out in the shops, so I gave it a listen, and I personally think it's a bit crap. I think I made the right decision not to buy it because of being able to sample it first, and I was able to buy something else instead. Then again, I don't really know how Spotify works. Did the Melvins make any money from me streaming it on Spotify?

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I don't really want to buy records I'm not going to like. A recent example being the new Melvins record. I love the Melvins. I have all their albums, and I like just about all of them. I noticed the new one was on Spotify before it actually came out in the shops, so I gave it a listen, and I personally think it's a bit crap. I think I made the right decision not to buy it because of being able to sample it first, and I was able to buy something else instead. Then again, I don't really know how Spotify works. Did the Melvins make any money from me streaming it on Spotify?

As far as I know, streaming on Spotify is legitimate. I think it's arranged either through the band or the label. It's certainly legal, in any case.

And my point isn't that people should buy albums they don't like, it's that if the music's not been paid for or provided for free legally by the label or the artist, then the average consumer doesn't have any right to listen to it. Knowing whether or not you like it should be part of having bought it, if you get me.

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the kudos of being able to tell all their mates that they have a copy of Jedward's new album two months before release date.

come on, that's completely irrelevant.

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