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Aileen
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It's been an interesting 19 pages...

Well let's seee... I agree with a lot of what's said, disagree with a lot and find some of it strangely ironic.

I do think the Aberdeen scene is pretty stale, I work with the artists I work with because I see something original and good within them, but not meaning to be offensive to everyone else, offhand I can't really think of anyone else I've seen in Aberdeen who has impressed me or seemed that original to me. There are a lot of people in the 'scene' who think they're elder statesmen because they've been around for so long making their own unique brand of original music, my opinion on that is very much: "If your music is so great and everyone loves it, why are you here and not playing Wembley Arena ??" Having been in a band for a long time and playing around Aberdeen doesn't make you more knowledgeable and doesn't mean you're good, if you were good, you wouldn't still be playing around just Aberdeen. I even find myself agreeing with Stripey in that I'm waiting to hear about a band from Aberdeen who have been out there and stretched the boundaries, and due to their original sound have got somewhere. Who was the last band to do something from here, Driveblind ? Gene ? Pallas? to a lesser degree the Needles ? No-one else has managed to break free, play the bigger gigs and let themselves be heard. How many Aberdeen bands have played to over 1000 people at a gig, not a festival audience but 1000 people who have each paid to get into a gig ? I'm not even talking about headlining but in support. I hear a lot about these great original Aberdeen bands and yet when they're forced with a less parochial atmosphere, such as trying to get bigger tours and gigs they don't hold up as they're heard for what they are. I'm not saying these people aren't good but I am saying that at the end of the day being good isn't always good enough to make you be heard, you have to be different.

Ok, now onto the technology thing... Quite frankly it's great !! We use a full computer system to record the Baby Karma stuff with Emma and the only instruments that are played are guitar, key and vox. I would challenge anyone to listen to some of the reocrdings we've made and realise that there aren't people physically playing these instruments. The Baby Karma sound has a kind of epicness about it that couldn't be achieved by a 4 piece band. We can create a full orchestra or just some precise drumming that can enhance a piece of music hugely. To say it doesn't seem right in that context is silly because half the time you probably wouldn't even know.

As for the tuning of vocals etc I agree that's not on, ironically it is exactly the kind of thing that is allowing the Pop Idol artists Stripey hates so much to be able to create their market. I think the arguement has to be that if technology is used in conjunction with genuine talent then it's a great thing, but as a tool it can be a bad thing too as it can allow people with lesser talent to seem like they are more talented. Vocals are the one thing that I think should be genuine and untouched as to me thats often where the soul of the song comes from, all personal opinion but is the reason I primarlily work with vocalists like Emma and Jo.

Before anyone jumps on my previous point I'm aware the BK stuff we do isn't terribly original but to be fair we never claimed it was it's commercial pop music with an epicness attached. We do it because we like it and it's a chance to record some interesting tracks with a great vocalist, and quite frankly it's commercial and the first record company who comes along and offers us money for it can have it, sell-out, too right that's what it's designed to be, a way for all of us to get a foothold in the music business. Interestingly despite that we may have 2 gigs booked for next year, one to 2500 people and the other to a small festival crowd of 5000 or so, so somewhere something must be working.

Anyway rant over, and the conclusion I draw is that imho the aberdeen scene isn't great and there are a lot of self congratulationary posts on here, which is not always a bad thing, but you can do it too much, I'm never too sure why we need 5 page long psosts saying such and such is playing at drakes with 4 pages of, that'll be great i'll be there... followed by another page afterwards of how billiant they were, in most cases they could have gone and played craply and most people wouldn't have noticed, they'd still get posts saying how brilliant they were. Which leads me to the fact i've yet to see a band I'd say were deserving of 5 pages of how great they are in Aberdeen and most of the popular bands are derivitave and as about as original as the Darkness, doesn't mean they're band, but saying they're original is pushing it. And technology in general is a great thing and used well most people can't tell the difference between sounds generated by a good quality system and real instruments, what can be wrong is how that technology is used to creat Gareth Gates ;)

Anyway,

Thanks for that, I feel better now, breathe in...

Cheers

Stuart

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Guest The Reverend Z. Munch
My posts "a bit right on"? I'm sorry' date=' but I say only what I believe. You think that wrong[/quote']

No but the way you make your points sometimes gives me the impression that because you happen to have affiliations with these activist groups then somehow that makes you a bigger authority on a subject or makes your opinion more valid on a subject and anyone else who has an opinion to your own is entirely wrong.

Maybe thats not the way you intend your points to come across and you're merely trying to emphasise your opinion the best way you can but it comes across that way at times.

I just think if you really believe in the freedoms you say you do, you'd take a little more tact in the way you reply to people with conflicting opinions.

Fair enough if he was wrong but the thing i don't agree with and felt fucking offended by was the fucking lynch mob mentality of some cunts on these boards, i am not blaming you for being involved but for fuck's sake, its a messageboard, the guy has got a right to express an opinion wherever he sees fit.

Christ the way some people were acting with regard to his comments, you'd have thought the guy had said something like "paedophilia should be legalised!" or "Hitler was a hero!".

Regarding Stripey's posts - his views regarding the DIY punk community are far from the mark, he clearly having no understanding or experience of it. And it was for this reason that I challenged his posts. I don't fear criticism, so long as it is based on an understanding of the subject.

Well, i did just mention the fact he doesn't go to many gigs but that doesn't stop him passing comments or criticism on bands' music he's listened to on the MP3s he's mentioned, the minute a band makes their tracks available on MP3 means that they're providing anyone access to their music and therefore should also accept criticism whether they like it or not.

I think what his comments regarding the DIY punk community comes down to the fact that he's obviously heard a couple of bands' music and not heard anything that is remotely forward-thinking or innovative, thats his opinion and therefore you can't deny him his right to his opinion.

I think emo isn't particularly interesting music and i don't see much in terms of ideas and innovation going on in the music of Funeral For A Friend for example, it just sounds like generic metal with some melody thrown in, now because i don't like that music or own any Funeral For A Friend CDs or any albums by The Movie Life or Taking Back Sunday, does that therefore not allow me to have an opinion on any of that kind of music? am i not allowed to say i dislike that music for any reasons that i may choose to state?

My being unwilling to handle the truth? As I've said, it was Stripey whose statements were wrong. Ego has nothing to do with it. The man was wrong. That's all.

How so? You believe in what you believe so that must therefore make you RIGHT and because he believes in something else then that must make him WRONG!???

Sorry but that level of thinking just ain't gonna fucking well wash with me.

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To be honest' date=' i think a lot of the things he tends to say is designed entirely and deliberately to wind people like you up...

And lets face it, look at the amount of pages this thread has tallied up and the amount of responses to stuff he has said...i think the words "rise" and "bait" definitely spring to mind there[/quote']

I know exactly what he's doing. I came into this thread because I could see he was trying to wind up one of my fellow band members who had no clue who he is or what he is about.

The Stripester is probably just relishing in laughing at the thought that he is rabble-rousing by saying something mildly controversial like "Aberdonians are a bunch of brainless primordial homunculus cretins who make music for buffoons!" and then getting a fucking plethora of people responding to such a message' date=' you're just entertaining the guy doing that...

Its funny how you're finding it so difficult to work that out...you got to take your hat off to Stripey for basically exposing a lot of people here for the clueless idiots they are if they can't work out that they're the butt of one big joke[/quote']

So it basically boils down to, "pay no attention to the nasty man". The only idea I find repellent is entertaining him, and my since music is in no danger of doing that, I suppose I'll stick to it rather than wasting more energy on here.

I'm not even going to bother trying to explain..

I wish you would. Do more roads mean more traffic?

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Guest allsystemsfail

I wish you would. Do more roads mean more traffic?

In a word, yes. Extensive road building projects have failed in alleviating traffic congestion, the number of cars on the road spiraling out of control. The answer? We gotta address car use.

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OK whilst i concede there are bands who are playing otutside of aberdeen I'm talking about people who have gone out there and made a real impression, who have played to more than 20 people in a German rock club. Please don't get it wrong I'm not taking a swipe at the people who have done it, well done to them for getting out there and doing it, I know how difficult it is, I'm talking about the bands that go out and sell hundreds of CDs on the back of of these shows, bands that capture the imagination. I don't know any of these bands so for all I know they could have done this and I apologise if they have, but how many Aberdeen bands have sold over 1000 copies of an album, and i mean to people at gigs in other places not just friends and family in Aberdeen. Please don't get me wrong I'm not saying these bands aren't good or anything like that I'm just trying to find out if anyone has set the specific scene on fire, any of the punk bands who have really profitted from the shows, sold loads of their CD's, more press etc. I hear posts from people complaining about the lack of press coverage for their band etc, and yet I've always found if you have something interesting to sell and to do then people will feature you, it's the same with this, if you are that good, you will sell the cd's and you will get the bigger gigs...

Cheers

Stuart

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Guest The Reverend Z. Munch
I do think the Aberdeen scene is pretty stale' date=' I work with the artists I work with because I see something original and good within them, but not meaning to be offensive to everyone else, offhand I can't really think of anyone else I've seen in Aberdeen who has impressed me or seemed that original to me. There are a lot of people in the 'scene' who think they're elder statesmen because they've been around for so long making their own unique brand of original music, my opinion on that is very much: "If your music is so great and everyone loves it, why are you here and not playing Wembley Arena ??" Having been in a band for a long time and playing around Aberdeen doesn't make you more knowledgeable and doesn't mean you're good, if you were good, you wouldn't still be playing around just Aberdeen. I even find myself agreeing with Stripey in that I'm waiting to hear about a band from Aberdeen who have been out there and stretched the boundaries, and due to their original sound have got somewhere. Who was the last band to do something from here, Driveblind ? Gene ? Pallas? to a lesser degree the Needles ? No-one else has managed to break free, play the bigger gigs and let themselves be heard. How many Aberdeen bands have played to over 1000 people at a gig, not a festival audience but 1000 people who have each paid to get into a gig ? I'm not even talking about headlining but in support. I hear a lot about these great original Aberdeen bands and yet when they're forced with a less parochial atmosphere, such as trying to get bigger tours and gigs they don't hold up as they're heard for what they are. I'm not saying these people aren't good but I am saying that at the end of the day being good isn't always good enough to make you be heard, you have to be different.[/quote']

Spot on.

I can't think of any bands that truly enforce a modicum of individuality into their music, i think most bands here are too busy focusing on what the audiences will want and pandering to fashions and trends created by the music industry, you only need to go onto AUBL.Net to look at the photos of some of the bands and listen to their MP3s to know exactly who or what they're trying to be, the need to be popular and accepted by people seems to matter more than how accomplished and imaginative their sound is, it just seems easier to regurgitate corny riffs and certain vocal styles than it does to take the time out to truly create something that sounds unique.

The worst thing about a lot of new bands here is that they think they need to gig straight away and record something fast and thus don't take the necessary measures or quality time to actually find their own sound and experiment with their instruments enough, there just seems to be this overriding mentality with people that you NEED TO PLAY DRAKES ASAP because the sooner you do that, the sooner you build a "fanbase", the sooner you do an instore gig and the sooner you get nominated for a Fudge Award...i'd actually like some bands to just say "fuck it, lets not pander to any of this bullshit and just do something that stands out from the crowd"

Anyway rant over, and the conclusion I draw is that imho the aberdeen scene isn't great and there are a lot of self congratulationary posts on here, which is not always a bad thing, but you can do it too much, I'm never too sure why we need 5 page long psosts saying such and such is playing at drakes with 4 pages of, that'll be great i'll be there... followed by another page afterwards of how billiant they were, in most cases they could have gone and played craply and most people wouldn't have noticed, they'd still get posts saying how brilliant they were.

You see, thats exactly the kind of shit i was railing against. There's too much of that backslapping and arsekissing nonsense going around and it doesn't do anyone any good apart from allow a bunch of assholes to inflate their egos some more, fair enough give credit where its due but don't talk bullshit just cos your mates with a member of a band or know someone who is a mate of a mate of the band or whatever, christ the way some people talk about the gigs of some of these decidedly average bands they saw play at Drakes or The Moorings you'd think it was on a par with Jimi Hendrix's performance at Woodstock or The Rolling Stones' gig at Hyde Park or something, its just frigging absurd.

Of course, the minute one person says anything different, they're immediately set upon like a pack of wolves.

No-one likes to get bad reviews or negative criticism but like i said before, if you can't take it then don't play gigs or put out music because there's always going to be people out there who don't like your music and throwing abuse at them just cos they didn't like your music doesn't do you any favours at all and merely gives you a bad rep.

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Guest allsystemsfail
No but the way you make your points sometimes gives me the impression that because you happen to have affiliations with these activist groups then somehow that makes you a bigger authority on a subject or makes your opinion more valid on a subject and anyone else who has an opinion to your own is entirely wrong.

Maybe thats not the way you intend your points to come across and you're merely trying to emphasise your opinion the best way you can but it comes across that way at times.

I just think if you really believe in the freedoms you say you do' date=' you'd take a little more tact in the way you reply to people with conflicting opinions.

Fair enough if he was wrong but the thing i don't agree with and felt fucking offended by was the fucking lynch mob mentality of some cunts on these boards, i am not blaming you for being involved but for fuck's sake, its a messageboard, the guy has got a right to express an opinion wherever he sees fit.

Christ the way some people were acting with regard to his comments, you'd have thought the guy had said something like "paedophilia should be legalised!" or "Hitler was a hero!".

Well, i did just mention the fact he doesn't go to many gigs but that doesn't stop him passing comments or criticism on bands' music he's listened to on the MP3s he's mentioned, the minute a band makes their tracks available on MP3 means that they're providing anyone access to their music and therefore should also accept criticism whether they like it or not.

I think what his comments regarding the DIY punk community comes down to the fact that he's obviously heard a couple of bands' music and not heard anything that is remotely forward-thinking or innovative, thats his opinion and therefore you can't deny him his right to his opinion.

I think emo isn't particularly interesting music and i don't see much in terms of ideas and innovation going on in the music of Funeral For A Friend for example, it just sounds like generic metal with some melody thrown in, now because i don't like that music or own any Funeral For A Friend CDs or any albums by The Movie Life or Taking Back Sunday, does that therefore not allow me to have an opinion on any of that kind of music? am i not allowed to say i dislike that music for any reasons that i may choose to state?

How so? You believe in what you believe so that must therefore make you RIGHT and because he believes in something else then that must make him WRONG!???

Sorry but that level of thinking just ain't gonna fucking well wash with me.[/quote']

Regarding your first point - I agree completely. Sure, I can at times appear a little aggresive in my postings, and have on a couple of occasions apologized if I'd offended anyone. Hell, it's a hard habit to break, but I'm trying. Also, I claim no superiority, but certainly understand that at times this may appear so.

Returning to Stripey - as I said, the man clearly has no understanding or experience of the DIY punk underground, so is quite wrong in making the sweeping statements he does. His understanding of the politics of the punk community is but one example. He seeks to mock, yet has no clue about to which he is referring. Also his thoughts on the make up of the scene, thinking those involved are just schoolkids. He couldn't be more wrong.

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Guest The Reverend Z. Munch
So it basically boils down to' date=' "pay no attention to the nasty man". The only idea I find repellent is entertaining him, and my since music is in no danger of doing that, I suppose I'll stick to it rather than wasting more energy on here.[/quote']

You could just write a drum n bass song about it to impress him by being more artistic and innovative than he would expect you to be....

although trying to drum and play a bass at the same time might prove difficult.

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Guest The Reverend Z. Munch
Regarding your first point - I agree completely. Sure' date=' I can at times appear a little aggresive in my postings, and have on a couple of occasions apologized if I'd offended anyone. Hell, it's a hard habit to break, but I'm trying. I claim no superiority, but certainly understand that at times this may appear so.[/quote']

But do you think you could give Stripey a hiding?. If you do then in a way, you do have superiority over him because you know you can kick his eyes out if you ever meet him in the street.

Returning to Stripey - as I said, the man clearly has no understanding or experience of the DIY punk underground, so is quite wrong in making the seeping statements he does. His understanding of the politics of the punk community is but one example. He seeks to mock, yet has no clue about to which he is referring. Also his thoughts on the make up of the scene, thinking those involved are just schoolkids. He couldn't be more wrong.

You know, you keep calling it the "DIY punk community" and i get this image of mohawked punk rockers making dovetail joints and planing wood and putting up shelves...oh shit, sorry i mocked it there...BRING ON THE LYNCH MOBBY SLUTS!(sorry Bob, couldn't resist the opportunity)

Calm down son, he makes sweeping statements like that cos he is trying to get a rise out of you and he obviously did...more fool you for doing so.

One more thing sir...big shout out to the DIY punk community....

ANARCHY IN THE B&Q!!!!!

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Guest The Reverend Z. Munch
2pees werth...;

Surely in these days of the two-tier aberdeen-music.com' date=' this thread represents a waste of bandwidth and paying supporters money?....

:up:[/quote']

Hope they kept their receipts then....

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Guest Neubeatz
2pees werth...;

Surely in these days of the two-tier aberdeen-music.com, this thread represents a waste of bandwidth and paying supporters money?....

Hope they kept their receipts then....

Damn and %^&^%, Shitnashoebox!!!!

I posted that to the wrong thread, It must have been my stupid mental deficiency that made me do it,

No No, it was a big boy who pushed me and ran away,

Right, thats the thread...................;)

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In a word' date=' yes. Extensive road building projects have failed in alleviating traffic congestion, the number of cars on the road spiraling out of control. The answer? We gotta address car use.[/quote']

So what's the answer?

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Guest allsystemsfail
So what's the answer?

Those with cars should (if they can) use their car less - making trips only when it is necessary. Too many people use their cars for even the shortest or inessential of journeys. Car pooling can also help greatly. Too often cars carry no more than a single person. Or what what about giving up your car altogether, instead using public transport, cycling, or getting about on foot.

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Guest Stripey
Those with cars should (if they can) use their car less - making trips only when it is necessary. Too many people use their cars for even the shortest or inessential of journeys. Car pooling can also help greatly. Too often cars carry no more than a single person. Or what what about giving up your car altogether' date=' instead using public transport, cycling, or getting about on foot.[/quote']

What about people in rural environments, miles from any public transport or amenities such as shops, who may have young kids to take to school etc.

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Guest allsystemsfail
What about people in rural environments' date=' miles from any public transport or amenities such as shops, who may have young kids to take to school etc.[/quote']

Sure, I completely understand that for some a car is extremely important. But for most of us, we could make a great deal of change.

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Those with cars should (if they can) use their car less - making trips only when it is necessary. Too many people use their cars for even the shortest or inessential of journeys. Car pooling can also help greatly. Too often cars carry no more than a single person. Or what what about giving up your car altogether' date=' instead using public transport, cycling, or getting about on foot.[/quote']

Well I use my car when necessary but the bus whenever possible. I do this because, even although buses are large, hugely polluting vehicles that circle the town with virtually no-one on them except at peak times (talk about needless journeys!) there's no point taking the car into town because you can't get parked.

The logical flipside of the "more roads means more traffic" argument is that less roads means less traffic. And that's just silly.

More roads means more wealth. More roads means getting to your destination faster with less traffic jams meaning less cars idling, or wasting petrol. It costs a lot of money to build roads... you can bet the government doesn't want to build them for the hell of it.

In fact, any *excuse* not to would probably seem dandy to them.

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