Want to play up to 800 people?

[Guest A.R.S. Promotions]

What are you charging the bands who enter?

It won't cost bands anything to enter, entry is totally free.

Were not looking looking to make money from bands, we just thought it would be a good opportunity for local bands to get involved with a decent gig.

These gigs are going to go ahead regardless of this battle of the bands, this is just an opportunity for decent exposure for a local band away from the norm. In my opinion anyway

[Guest idol_wild]

It won't cost bands anything to enter, entry is totally free.

Were not looking looking to make money from bands, we just thought it would be a good opportunity for local bands to get involved with a decent gig.

These gigs are going to go ahead regardless of this battle of the bands, this is just an opportunity for decent exposure for a local band away from the norm. In my opinion anyway

In my opinion, good promoters seek out local musicians, and operate their invite policy according to who they have seen and who they like/dislike.

Will you be paying the bands who enter this battle of the bands on the night of their performance, and will you be asking them to sell tickets?

[Frosty Jack]

In my opinion, good promoters seek out local musicians, and operate their invite policy according to who they have seen and who they like/dislike.

[Guest A.R.S. Promotions]

In my opinion, good promoters seek out local musicians, and operate their invite policy according to who they have seen and who they like/dislike.

Will you be paying the bands who enter this battle of the bands on the night of their performance, and will you be asking them to sell tickets?

Would holding a local battle of the bands not be seeking out local talent?

We will not be paying the bands to enter no, neither will we be asking them to sell tickets. We will howvever be having a public vote at the end of everynight to decide the winner from each heat, so naturally it would be in the bands interest to take encourage friends, band followers etc to come along

[Guest idol_wild]

Would be holding a local battle of the bands not be seeking out local talent?

We will not be paying the bands to enter no, neither will we be asking them to sell tickets. We will howvever be having a public vote at the end of everynight to decide the winner from each heat, so naturally it would be in the bands interest to take encourage friends, band followers etc to come along

No, that's not seeking out local talent. Go to gigs - that's seeking out local talent. The vast majority of bands don't actually enter battle of the bands competitions, so you're really limiting the amount of genuine quality local talent that you'll see. In my honest opinion, any musician who enters a battle of the bands competition has no sense of self-worth/respect, or is extremely naive.

So, ARS Promotions will have their pockets quite nicely lined by a battle of the bands competiton if:

a) You strongly encourage the bands that enter to bring their friends to sway the vote (this becomes less of a battle of the bands and more a "bring all your friends so they can vote for you and make you win").

b) You charge entry on the door yet don't give any of the performers any payment.

Win win situation for ARS Promotions, right?

[Adam Easy Wishes]

What is the draw for these 800 people? Surely 800 folk do not turn up to a show regardless of who is playing? Is it not the quality of the acts playing that draws the crowd?

Will the 'winning' band receive a cut of the 800 x x entry fee?

[Guest A.R.S. Promotions]

No, that's not seeking out local talent. Go to gigs - that's seeking out local talent. The vast majority of bands don't actually enter battle of the bands competitions, so you're really limiting the amount of genuine quality local talent that you'll see. In my honest opinion, any musician who enters a battle of the bands competition has no sense of self-worth/respect, or is extremely naive.

So, ARS Promotions will have their pockets quite nicely lined by a battle of the bands competiton if:

a) You strongly encourage the bands that enter to bring their friends to sway the vote (this becomes less of a battle of the bands and more a "bring all your friends so they can vote for you and make you win").

b) You charge entry on the door yet don't give any of the performers any payment.

Win win situation for ARS Promotions, right?

Being honest with you, it seems you have a pretty grim opinion of promoters, and yeh I can understand why, fully. But I have been playing and earning my living in the music scene, as a musician for almost 10 years, and I have also had bad experiences with promoters, as has my business colleague.

However, we decided to take on this venture to try and offer bands the chance to play some better than "average" gigs, and to provide a professional service and environment for all bands we worked with. Yeh we intend to make some profit from it, would you expect us to do all the work necessary to make our our gigs succesful, and not make a penny? But we won't be ripping off anyone to do so, that would be cutting off our noses despite our faces.

I suggest you speak to the ABDC guys if you have any concerns about us, I think you will find they were well rewarded finacncially on the night, well looked after and catered for, and they'll also tell you pretty much every penny taken in was spent on hosting the night!

I play pretty play much every weekend night, say Thurs-Sun, so I find it very difficult to get out and check out local talent. This seemed a good way to hear bands that I normally wouldn't, and maybe be able to offer something different. If it fails so be it, we'll need to look at another avenue.

[Guest A.R.S. Promotions]

What is the draw for these 800 people? Surely 800 folk do not turn up to a show regardless of who is playing? Is it not the quality of the acts playing that draws the crowd?

Will the 'winning' band receive a cut of the 800 x x entry fee?

Well I'll be honest with you, most of the bands we are attracting at the moment are travelling tribute acts, established ones who generally pull a crowd.

We also keep our lowest gig prices low, for example a ticket for the ABDC was 6, whereas if you went to the Lemon Tree to see Hells Bells you would be looking at 14 plus booking fee.

No the support band wouldn't recieve a percentage of the door, we would provide a decent package, but it wouldn't be a percentage. But surely the offer to play to a large crowd, in a great venue, with the best PA money can buy, with top professional personal staff is a decent pulling tool for up and coming local bands.

This battle of the bands is not a money making venture for ARS, it's all about trying to get in a band, or in the future bands who we would otherwise have no chance of getting involved.

[Guest idol_wild]

Being honest with you, it seems you have a pretty grim opinion of promoters, and yeh I can understand why, fully. But I have been playing and earning my living in the music scene, as a musician for almost 10 years, and I have also had bad experiences with promoters, as has my business colleague.

However, we decided to take on this venture to try and offer bands the chance to play some better than "average" gigs, and to provide a professional service and environment for all bands we worked with. Yeh we intend to make some profit from it, would you expect us to do all the work necessary to make our our gigs succesful, and not make a penny? But we won't be ripping off anyone to do so, that would be cutting off our noses despite our faces.

I suggest you speak to the ABDC guys if you have any concerns about us, I think you will find they were well rewarded finacncially on the night, well looked after and catered for, and they'll also tell you pretty much every penny taken in was spent on hosting the night!

I play pretty play much every weekend night, say Thurs-Sun, so I find it very difficult to get out and check out local talent. This seemed a good way to hear bands that I normally wouldn't, and maybe be able to offer something different. If it fails so be it, we'll need to look at another avenue.

I think tribute bands are a completely different breed to original bands. Don't try and cross the two markets, because it really won't work. Therefore, speaking to ABDC in this situation won't help in any way.

You're not going to get much support for your battle of the bands around these parts because the majority of genuine live music fans, I feel, identify the overhwhelming futility and exploitation of such endeavours.

If you're too busy to attend gigs on a regular basis to discover more local musicians, then I'm a little flummoxed as to why you feel you have enough time to co-ordinate and properly promote a concert featuring said local musicians. Surely you want to book local musicans and promote them because you really fucking like them? Already. Because you have seen them play and they rocked your little motherfucking silk socks.

Not paying your bands when, by the sounds of it, you'll be focusing on pursuading the actual bands to actually populate the audience with their friends, yet keeping profit yourself is really quite sickening.

[jon]

It's no coincidence that, once every few months, a "competition" like this pops up.

The ethical nastiness inherent is then pointed out by all and sundry here and the "promotions company" in question tends never to be heard of again.

[Guest A.R.S. Promotions]

I think tribute bands are a completely different breed to original bands. Don't try and cross the two markets, because it really won't work. Therefore, speaking to ABDC in this situation won't help in any way.

You're not going to get much support for your battle of the bands around these parts because the majority of genuine live music fans, I feel, identify the overhwhelming futility and exploitation of such endeavours.

If you're too busy to attend gigs on a regular basis to discover more local musicians, then I'm a little flummoxed as to why you feel you have enough time to co-ordinate and properly promote a concert featuring said local musicians. Surely you want to book local musicans and promote them because you really fucking like them? Already. Because you have seen them play and they rocked your little motherfucking silk socks.

Not paying your bands when, by the sounds of it, you'll be focusing on pursuading the actual bands to actually populate the audience with their friends, yet keeping profit yourself is really quite sickening.

Well my time for this venture is purely based during the day, I make my living as a musician, so I have my days pretty much free, hence why I took this on.

As for sickening you, not sure how that works? How would we be lining our pockets from a free battle of the bands? The only people that will be taking any profit wiill be those who run the bar, surely?

And I disagree with your statement about crossing bands. We actually had a local covers band supporting ABDC, and we have been criticized for doing so, by many people, what we are in fact doing is going with a certain public influence. Even though it's obviously not yours

[Guest A.R.S. Promotions]

It's no coincidence that, once every few months, a "competition" like this pops up.

The ethical nastiness inherent is then pointed out by all and sundry here and the "promotions company" in question tends never to be heard of again.

Well we already have regular booking with the Forum, so we will be committing to them.

I grant you we won't be moving outwith that. But the thought of putting on a show as the norm to like half a hall is not attractive to me in the slightest

[Guest idol_wild]

As for sickening you, not sure how that works? How would we be lining our pockets from a free battle of the bands? The only people that will be taking any profit wiill be those who run the bar, surely?

Well, you stated that you intended to make a profit, yet you don't intend to pay the musicians anything.

That is sickening.

[Guest A.R.S. Promotions]

We won't make a penny profit from the battle of the bands, it's all about getting different bands involved.

I can't make you believe that, but then again I have nothing to justify myself for.

[Guest idol_wild]

We won't make a penny profit from the battle of the bands, it's all about getting different bands involved.

I can't make you believe that, but then again I have nothing to justify myself for.

Well, it depends on your angle. Personally, I think this is a terrible way of discovering local musicians to work with, simply because no self-respecting band will enter the competition in the first place.

Anyway, I'm stepping off my soapbox for now. I personally feel you're a little naive and misguided, but you seem determined. Maybe you'll make all the money you want out of this, after all.

Have a good time. All the time.

[Fish out of water]

But we won't be ripping off anyone to do so, that would be cutting off our noses despite our faces.

Sorry, can't let this pass; you're cutting your nose to spite your face, not despite.

[Guest A.R.S. Promotions]

Well, it depends on your angle. Personally, I think this is a terrible way of discovering local musicians to work with, simply because no self-respecting band will enter the competition in the first place.

Anyway, I'm stepping off my soapbox for now. I personally feel you're a little naive and misguided, but you seem determined. Maybe you'll make all the money you want out of this, after all.

Have a good time. All the time.

I'll obviously respect your opinion, but obviously I'm gonna try and prove you wrong. I'll be the first to admit that this is all totally new to me, I'm normally in the hands of promoters and agents, rather than vice versa. But I've been involved with music a long time, I'm not some young boy, I'll make mistakes I'm sure, then I'll learn from them, but I'm also willing to make the mistakes to make sure I get things right.

[Guest A.R.S. Promotions]

Sorry, can't let this pass; you're cutting your nose to spite your face, not despite.

Ha Ha, please forgive my ignorance, I indeed stand corrected

[Frosty Jack]

I think tribute bands are a completely different breed to original bands. Don't try and cross the two markets' date=' because it really won't work. [/quote']

And I disagree with your statement about crossing bands. We actually had a local covers band supporting ABDC

This is the point that you're missing.

What Idol Wild is trying to point out is the difference between the bands you're speaking about, and the bands that on the whole would be posting on here. Without wishing to make sweeping generalisations, I'd say the vast majority of musicians posting here are in 'original' bands (i.e. writing, creating and playing their own music), not 'covers' (i.e. popular or well-known music written by someone else). I think the fact that you seem to think covers band and tribute bands are totally different things speaks volumes.

[Guest A.R.S. Promotions]

This is the point that you're missing.

What Idol Wild is trying to point out is the difference between the bands you're speaking about, and the bands that on the whole would be posting on here. Without wishing to make sweeping generalisations, I'd say the vast majority of musicians posting here are in 'original' bands (i.e. writing, creating and playing their own music), not 'covers' (i.e. popular or well-known music written by someone else). I think the fact that you seem to think covers band and tribute bands are totally different things speaks volumes.

Frosty ( I hope I can call you Frosty?), I play in all variations of bands, ceilidh bands, cover bands, pipe bands, original bands, and I use the site, so yeh I'd agree that was a sweeping generalisation.

Well I'd say there was a massive difference between Covers and Tributes. Yeh OK both forms are similiar, but you wouldn't go and see a tribute band to hear a variation of covers would you? Or Vice Versa? Thats where I see a difference

Anyway, you've actually picked up what I've said wrong, or I haven't explained myself well enough. We are in fact looking for an ORIGINAL act for a support slot, not a COVER band. We previously had a COVER band as support and people we spoke to suggested they'd rather hear an ORIGINAL band in support, rather then COVERS.

Thats why we came up with this train of thought.

[Adam Easy Wishes]

Few 'original' bands will want to support a 'covers' band, let alone good 'original' bands.

[Guest idol_wild]

Frosty ( I hope I can call you Frosty?), I play in all variations of bands, ceilidh bands, cover bands, pipe bands, original bands, and I use the site, so yeh I'd agree that was a sweeping generalisation.

Well I'd say there was a massive difference between Covers and Tributes. Yeh OK both forms are similiar, but you wouldn't go and see a tribute band to hear a variation of covers would you? Or Vice Versa? Thats where I see a difference

Anyway, you've actually picked up what I've said wrong, or I haven't explained myself well enough. We are in fact looking for an ORIGINAL act for a support slot, not a COVER band. We previously had a COVER band as support and people we spoke to suggested they'd rather hear an ORIGINAL band in support, rather then COVERS.

Thats why we came up with this train of thought.

I place covers/tribute bands in precisely the same bracket. It's not original material. It's a form of (extremely) cheap entertainment and in no way creative.

And I don't think Frosty's "sweeping generalisation" was sweeping at all, really. The extreme majority of musicians who post on this forum are most certainly only involved/interested in musicians playing original material.

[Guest A.R.S. Promotions]

Few 'original' bands will want to support a 'covers' band, let alone good 'original' bands.

It seems that way, and I'm quite happy to be shot down in flames if this fails!

But, I don't fully understand it. If someone offered me the chance to play to possibly 800 people in a venue like a Forum, with Jimi Troup installing a top PA, a Top lighting rig and also having to make no effort apart from turning up and playing, I'd jump at the chance, regardless of the scenario! Guess thats obviously just me

Would seem many people are invloved with Music for the wrong reasons

[Frosty Jack]

Would seem many people are involved with Music for the wrong reasons

I think we can agree on that one...

By the way Scott - You're still banned. I'm going to take an executive decision and allow the 'ARS Promotions' login to stand for now, mainly for the sake of this discussion which I believe is raising some interesting points. But this is not an opportunity for you personally to return to these boards.

[Guest A.R.S. Promotions]

I place covers/tribute bands in precisely the same bracket. It's not original material. It's a form of (extremely) cheap entertainment and in no way creative.

And I don't think Frosty's "sweeping generalisation" was sweeping at all, really. The extreme majority of musicians who post on this forum are most certainly only involved/interested in musicians playing original material.

Or could it be that you have a particular stereotype and opinion of cover bands and thats totally clouded your judgement in this case? I'm not arguing with you, I see your point, I just think you have tunnel vision on this

So you think for example ABBA Gold or such tribute acts are cheap entertainment, and lack creativity? These type of gigs attract the top musicians in the country, so I think the likes of Dave Innes, or Paul Robinson may have something to say about this, as they have toured with these types of bands for years. Or, are these not talented or creative musicians either?